chiralman

Re: Haymaker or mere Push?

Some things to remember:

- Some attacks can't be haymakered, but they can be pushed.

 

Strictly speaking by the rules (p. 257), "Haymaker applies to any attack, not just punches." (end of the first paragraph).

Re: Haymaker or mere Push?

I have a slight problem with this idea.

 

With a normal haymaker, you gain extra DCs at the cost of an extra segment. This carries the risk of the target moving out of the way, or being interrupted in your attack.

 

If you're haymakering your way out of an Entangle, these risks don't apply, so in effect you're getting the extra DCs for free. The extra segment isn't going to hurt you at all, since you won't lose your next phase.

 

IOW, if you find yourself in an Entangle, is there ever any reason why you wouldn't keep Haymakering until you're free?

You've elegantly stated my case, Phil. Entangles were MEANT to bring the character to 0 DCV, so there's no 'trade-off'. At least with Push you're exerting more END and will probably come out more spent than you would with consecutive Haymakers... although in theory you'd need twice the time to do so, but with the extra DCs it seems to potentially balance out.

And this entangle SFX is a shell of rock that an earth elemental covered poor Calanticus in... he's immobilized, but he can breathe and by definition none of his senses are impeded.

Re: What Da Hook Gonna Be?

a) I am on the side of never using the tavern scenario right off the bat... it's an insult in the face of those players who spent some time coming up with a good background. I spring off their ideas as much as I can.

I find random roll or generator tables the best for plot hook generation. I'm currrently in favor of rolling on a random FH Skill list table. Try to come up with a scenario where say (roll) Seduction will be at the fore or (roll) Literacy is at the fore or (roll) Professional Skill might be at the fore... or a scenario where the players have intercepted a missive that tells of (literacy) a scribe who is jailed and forced into labor by a powerful egotistic mad-woman of a witch who has to be 'convinced' (seduction) to let him go. She's got a large working staff and so one of the characters has to gain employment (PS skill) to her keep in order to infiltrate and allow the other characters in... huff huff. Or something like that. I don't think that I would use that particular example since it took me exactly two minutes think of it and to write it out.

Anyway, I like to use the Skill List to get the creativity flowing for plot ideas PLUS it justifies the need for every skill, not just the skills the players have. Plus there's a good chance that some obscure skills will become very important. Finally it may give a fresh outlook to non-combat skills if that is necessary in your game.

Hope this helps. Try it, you might like it.

Re: PLEASE check this post out - THIS MEANS YOU!!!

Actually I am male' date=' but Paige Oliver is my real name.[/quote']

 

Ha ha. Sorry about that. My bad. Y'know as soon as I posted that I realized that maybe I should have said 'their avatar' just in case... however once again chiralman must chant 'owa-tana-siam'. Lets never bring this up again.

 

No regrets about the avatar though.

Re: PLEASE check this post out - THIS MEANS YOU!!!

I can't even begin to comprehend what the post you pointed at is even saying.

I'm siding with paige, but mostly because I really really REALLY like looking at her avatar... ;-)

Re: Bringing up Everyman Skills

You mean like Vikings' date=' citizens of a modern 21st-century country, or the sentient-on-the-street in a spacefaring science fiction culture?[/quote']

 

...however, and here is where I think we're differing, my initial assumption is that all the characters have similar enough backgrounds to justify one blanket group of ESs. Everyone knows how to bandage themselves, everyone knows how to get their point across and get information, everyone knows how to work one kind of vehicle or ride one kind of animal (the specifics could be up to the player), everyone knows their way around their own homeland, etc. So to improve on this base-knowledge I wouldn't think it too out-of-bounds to spend two points instead of three.

 

However, thanks to KA and other constructive arguments (including you bblackmoor... I can't exclude you) I can honestly say that I see a valid justification as to why not to do that very thing. It's just about points with me, however, and still... as always... it's no hill to die on.

 

(pfffffffffft THWANG! ...ug ya got me!)

Re: Bringing up Everyman Skills

Aside from that, there is some logic to the way things currently work.

A lot of people currently have "everyman" skills like Cooking, Plumbing, Car Repair, etc.

But, if those people wanted to actually know enough to do those things professionally, they would have to go through the exact same training as a complete novice.

Part of the "point" they are "losing" by paying the full cost results from the things that they have to "unlearn".

"Basting? I just wrap everything in a foil and throw it in the oven!"

"Welding? You mean you don't really fix mufflers with aluminum tape and coathangers?"

 

There are real differences between training in a Skill and just picking up a few things by watching others, so I don't see a problem with the cost.

 

KA.

Now this is what I call an acceptable argument AGAINST the 2-pt cost argument. Very nicely done, KA!

Re: Bringing up Everyman Skills

Ah, the clouds are starting to clear a bit. I agree with Shadowpup, the reason to have Everyman Skills is to reflect common knowledge for Everyone in your game world... from punks to the highest authority. That's how it's intended to be used, right? If one were to argue for 'Lockpicking' to be an ES then everyone and their grandma would have Lockpicking, right?

I was tempted to make different Everyman Skills for different cultures, etc. but I came to the conclusion that these would be qualified as different Cultural Package Deals.

How do you differentiate, blackmoor? I guess it would help if we were kept in reference. It can get fatiguing enough keeping track of race/culture/environment/professional package deals, doesn't adding different ESs add to the confusion?

Re: Bringing up Everyman Skills

Mockery Smothered Chiralman

 

2 lbs. chiralman parts

2 tablespoons margarine

1 can Progresso Sarcastic Mockery soup

1/2 cup diced canned tomatoes

1/3 cup finely chopped onion

1/4 teaspoon basil leaves, crushed

 

In skillet, slowly brown chiralman in margarine (about 30 minutes). Add remaining ingredients. Cover and simmer 15 minutes or until done, stirring occasionally.

 

Serve over rice.

 

Chicken may be substituted for chiralman. Campbell's Cheddar Cheese soup may be substituted for Progresso Sarcastic Mockery soup. Salsa may be substututed for diced tomatoes.

That's cute, it must have taken you a long time and I appreciate the effort. I'm printing it and hanging it on my wall. Good thing you don't over-react to mundane issues, that would be a tragedy.

Re: Bringing up Everyman Skills

Yes' date=' but you raised the question, which allows us reasonably to infer that it is an actual or a potential issue in your own game.[/quote']

 

It's not. I've had this discussion with others, but it's never been so inflammatory. I was just surveying to see what the general consensus was... and I get smothered in mockery. My bad.

 

If it's not' date=' fair enough, but the fact that you raised the question initially makes your response to others' pro-rules response a little suspect. If your players aren't screwing up your game with this issue (as would seem to be the case), then why is it that you end up saying that you have such a hard time with GM's who say that 'your points are your points'?[/quote']

 

When did I say that? I was responding to how it was said... I don't appreciate some of the overreaction that goes on in these boards, but I respect opinions.

 

After all' date=' this assumption (that points should be points) was built-in to your original question. You seem to be changing your outlook without acknowledgement in the face of answers you don't like, and with no apparent reason. [/quote']

 

There is no 'right or wrong' for the Hero System, that can't be overemphasized, but there's room for discussion which is all that these boards are supposed to do. Why would I ask if my own opinion on the subject won't be changed? Anyway, it's a non-issue. Don't get so bent out of shape. Thanks for your opinions.

Re: Bringing up Everyman Skills

I guess that this subject should just be filed as YMMV. I honestly haven't seen any players *request* the ES = 1pt FAM, so it's not like anybody is crying because it is or it's not getting done.

And I agree with Agent X. If I played for a GM that went so ballistic over such minutae, I would knock off early. I can only imagine what happens when a plot line is ruined because you missed a roll by one point... but YMMV.

Re: Movies

I think I just saw that Krull is on SciFi right NOW. Talk about timeliness. Gonna go watch and laugh and learn and fall asleep...

Re: Bringing up Everyman Skills

Maybe you've misunderstood how Everyman Skills work. The character gets them for free. They are part of the default background for a generic human. You don't pay points for them.

 

If you want better than the "default", you pay points for it. Default = free, better than default = normal price.

I didn't say that the characters paid for them, I can see it more as a 'credit to the account'. Again, its not a hill worth dying on, I'm just not into redundancies and paying for something that is already credited to the account seems redundant.

Re: Bringing up Everyman Skills

Well how could it be 'free' if it's already paid for? I mean it's not a hill worth dying on, I just see it as better accounting. I really don't think that it's THAT more inconvenient to have ES skills under a different cost structure initially.

Stop sneering at me, you're making me feel guilty for even bringing it up...

Re: Bringing up Everyman Skills

I think it'd add an unnecesary complication to the game. You get what you get for free. If you want to buy the real skill' date=' buy the real skill. I'm not going to make chargen more complicated just to save a character one bloody [i']point[/i].

Duly noted, but when you're making a 75+75 PC, every point counts. I wouldn't bother with it in a supers campaign. You could actually save enough to buy another non-ES skill in the long run and that makes it noteworthy.

How taboo is it to allow Everyman Skills already possessed to cost 2 points instead of 3? I've always figured that since these are treated as FAM-based skills that they already have 1 pt invested.

I know its minor and that it's up to the GM, but since I'm starting a new game I thought I'd survey the crowd to see what everyone else thinks. I mean it's important enough to note in other places (vague I know, but I can't think of where I've seen it brought up) as something to avoid doing.

Thoughts?

Re: Cultural Superstitions and Forgotten Practices

Placing copper pieces (pennies, bits?) over the eyes of the deceased is supposed to serve two purposes... so that the dead can have passage fare for the Ferryman of the river Styx (to death) and, probably later, to weigh down the eyelids so that they don't open.

There have been those suspected of witchcraft and vampirism (murderers as well I believe) buried upside down so that, if they return, they will get lost when they escape the grave and move 'up'...

And while on the subject, how about my childhood myth of 'holding your breath' while you pass a graveyard to avoid who knows what...

Re: Movies

Change Environment: Extremely Lame Early Eighties Effects, AE-Cone.

PLUS 1D6 EB (bouncy fluorescent balls), AE (any confined area)

PLUS 1D6 Flash (makes targets cover face due to onslaught of rubber balls)

Probably about 2 Real Points worth.

Re: Movies

Nah, he rapidshots like an AK on full auto. Check the video near the bottom. LIVE THE ADVENTURE! THRILL TO THE MUSIC!! (Or somethin'...)

 

http://www.badmovies.org/movies/hawkslayer/

 

This site provides hours of entertainment BTW, and I recommend it most highly.

SO FRIGGIN SWEET! Thank you, OH THANK YOU!

However, I don't see good ol' Crow reaching for another arrow. God that Disco music during the battle is the SHIZZNIT!

Re: Movies

Holy Crap TKDGuy, you mean I'm NOT the only person who saw Circle of Iron?!?!??!

 

Yeah, I tried to run that in DnD and it didn't flow so well. In Hero it would be a cake-walk.

 

And yes, the first thing that came to mind after the first post was "Hawk the slayer with the autofire elf and one armed autofire x-bow guy!" Man...I have to find a copy of that...though it still brings me physical pain to watch jack Palance in that.

Well look no further. Hawk the Slayer is indeed available through amazon.com.

"Mark and Remember"

And it's been a long time, but wasn't the elf's entire 'jump, pull and fire' move repeated. I don't remember it as just the firing part, it was more like a movement loop wasn't it?

Fact: The Genesis probe has crashed to earth carrying a 'billion billion' charged atoms of what physicists call 'space dust'.

RPG Spinoff: Several workers sent to retrieve the probe, including stunt pilots, are:

(a) Reporting bouts of nausea

( Not available via radio, which was abruptly cut-off after hissing noises and what sounded like screams of anguish

© Reporting that they 'feel different'

(d) Dead as a result of the unknown radiation... yet GPS markers confirm that they are somehow still moving about...

Go!

Re: Movies

"Mark and Remember..."

Hawk the Slayer isn't available on NetFlix. That stinks. Anyone find it anywhere else? I'll go over to amazon.com and look around.

Re: Movies

"Hawk the Slayer", baby!

Going to look that one up on NetFlix right NOW! It's been way too long since I've seen that one. There was a DnD TV series too that was just about the best thing that could happen at the time.

I'm not sure how hard it would be to make any movie fit any game system but since DnD fed off of most of the movies I'd bring up I can't say that this qualifies as to what you are looking for but it's good fun anyway.

Also "Clash of the Titans", "Krull" and "H R Puffinstuff"

Re: godless fantasy

One of the points you seem to be missing is that Pollytheists, Pantheists and Animists all have philosophical systems allowing for magic granted by multiple deities that are not in oposition to one-another. The "Magic not from God must come from Satan" idea is only part of your campaign if you choose to make it part of your campaign. Even with an absolute God and Satan world view in a game, there's nothing stopping you from having other gods as non-oposed entities (see the game In Nominae), or magic derived from forces "natural" to your game world (see the Warlock In Spite of Himself books, and huge numbers of other modern fantasy novels).

 

If you want to run a Christian game-world, do so. However, there are huge numbers of other approaches.

 

Edit: Also, it should be noted that this is just a game. You are not required to believe in elves, fairies, dragons, magic, or flying men in capes to include them in your game world, or use them to tell a story. You are also not required to believe in your game world's theology to use it to tell stories. If you feel otherwise, it might be best to stick to historical simulation games.

Whoops, Christianity is not the point of this thread. The God/Satan paradigm is not part of any game I've ever played simply because I don't think that it would work, but that's my personal choice. YMMV. Originally I was pre-empting any 'why don't you want gods?' questions but I can see now that it may have been a more confusing statement than one helpful to my point. If we can keep the discussion going by keeping to literary treatment of the subject I'd be grateful. After all, I wouldn't want to endorse 'hate-mongoring'...

So to reiterate, I'm just wondering how 'magic' and 'prayer' co-exist in the fantasy genre, what differentiates one from the other, and whether or not the practitioners would naturally be at odds with each other. Make it a game balance question if you need to. It's all at the top of the thread.

Re: godless fantasy

Here you go again.

 

Cut it with the hate-mongering please.

I'm afraid you're not reading it as intended. I'm basing my arguments off of classical Western literary treatment of the subject. "Hate-mongoring"? Interesting. I apologize to you, arcady.

Teach me how you'd approach the subject that I'm getting at. I could be missing the target by a long shot. I'm not above correction, my friend. I've tried to be careful and almost overtly apologetic to my admittedly biased viewpoint. I'm not exactly a scholar on the subject and that's why I've opened this thread for discussion.