shem_whistler
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Posts posted by shem_whistler
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
Once again you'r emixing up mechanic and game effect.Breakfall will allow you to avoid damage from falling. That does not mean that you necessarily do stuff like Batman. It can mean doing stuff like Daffy Duck - both get to the bottom essentially unhurt - the special effects of how they did that vary considerably...
Doc
Curses Doc! You insufferable man :-)
Fair point though, I need to be less literal.
How do the points stack up?
I have priced up the Teleport, which comes out at 9 points, I've added increased END, I like the idea of onr of the teleports triggering, he stands up, then falls over again :-)
For the same points I can get a 14- roll in breakfall, assuming a base dex of 10.
I like that fact that the Teleport just works, there's no rolling for a possible success.
Which would you go for?
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
Yes, Constant means it runs by itself without you doing anything for it. Like Force Field (you only activate that once) or any "Poison"/"Burning" attack which does continuing damage without you doing anything. Technically, you would have to start it at some point (and pay END all the time), but since Aid does not cost END and you add persistent, even that is not necessary. Also, you are *VERY* hard to KO, as your "-10 Stun" starts technically at -30 (or else, the aid will bring you above -10 very quickly in a phase or two). That is probably the most interesting part of the power and will make you hellishly annoying.You could also buy some additional defenses / aid which only work when below 0 stun (-1 or so) for "impossible to take out for long"-effect.
The same is true for kippup teleport: Since it is triggered you only spend a zero phase action for it (meaning: You can only do it in your phase, but that's it), and another one to reset the trigger (and pay the END if necessary).
full phase action: you can do one of these per phase, and that's that.
1/2 phase action: You can do two of these per phase, but any attack will instantly end your phase right there.
zero phase action: You can do as many of these as you want during your phase, but not after attacks, only before them. That would be the level you want your trigger to be at.
action that takes no time: You can even do these when it's not your turn. speaking eg.
If you fall over at the end of your attack, you remain prone until it's your phase again. Then you instantly revert to being standing. You could also just buy lots of breakfall (only to get up quickly -1) so you always make your roll to do that.
I'm really liking this idea, the imagery & mechanic really fit the character, lying on the floor battered, then *ping* up on his feet, feeling refreshed, raring to go.
Whilst I like the breakfall idea, I think the character should be getting knocked around rather than gracefully landing.
Multiform ending: Instant Change disadvantage in the Multiform. State a condition and a roll (in your case: "badly hurt at 0 BODY" 14-) and you have to not roll 14- every phase or you revert automatically. If that is what you want. There might also be a limitation on MF' date=' but I don't remember that.[/quote']Presumably you could take this without the activation roll for a higher disadvantage penalty? It would definitely fit the character more, my Hyde side wont know that the Jekyll side exists, hence wont be trying to maintain his form.
REC: Yeah' date=' exactly. Instead of having 36 REC which only comes into effect post-12, you just agree with the GM that you will take half your post-12 in post-12, and half of it in post-6, or even 2 REC per phase. In the end, the difference is minor, but it makes sense to do this at some point of high REC (after all, if your REC is 40, and you only have 40 Stun, you will never reap the full benefit of your stat, that's hardly fair).[/quote']Hmm, I'll need to digest that one a little more to get my head round it fully.
Also' date=' I recommend the Edit button instead of replying two times in a row.[/quote']Sorry
Cheers
Shem
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
I actually didn't expect you to be sensible about it Most people react very violently after I tell them into their face that their character concept sucks (in the sense of: YOU won't have fun playing it). Ok' date=' some clarification:[/quote']I'll have to work on my skills, I only have Troll 7-
Yes, Constant Powers only work during your phases. So Healing, Constant, Always On, Persistent will heal you in every of your phases. Technically, it's illegal, because you cannot heal yourself for more than max Effect (1d6 = 6) per day (or up to per turn for a +1.75 advantage I think). Let's try some other approaches:
First off: "Standard" Regeneration 1 body/ turn, or a few more (but not needed, I'll get to that).
Second: Instead of Healing, we use Aid. Reason: While you cannot Aid more than Standard Effect either, you can add it as often per time as you like.
Energized: Aid Stun, 2d6 (20 points) increased maximum effect +8 (for 4 points), Constant (+1), Persistent (+1/2), Inherent (+1/4), Always On (-1/2). 66 Active points, 37 real points.
How this works: In every of your phases, you roll 2d6. These add to your temporary stun value. If you take damage, these go down first. These points are allowed to go above your normal maximum. You can have up to 12+8 = 20 stun like this. So if you have a maximum of 30, you will start all battles with 50, 20 of which regenerate extremly quickly.
The power is legal, quite powerful and quite useful. If you take many hits in quick succession, you will go down. If you only take one every now and then, you can totally shrug it off. Buy decent REC with it. Actually, this power sounds like fun
Next on the list: Tiny hits shall not do much to you: Use Flying instead of Running, that makes you take +1d6 Knockback
Have good Defenses, defined as "Yeah, you hit me, and I fall over, but I regenerate so quickly that I am as good as new in my next phase." Sure, you don't write down any damage, because it bounces off. But isn't that what you want? You bounce attacks because they cannot really hurt you. High defenses it is. Do not forget unusual defenses. Also, make them either Armor or resistant (!) PD/ED, because that way, they are always there and since they are resistant, you won't take BODY (which makes sense). That is also why you don't really need lots of regeneration. How often does someone do more than 25 Body in a single hit?*NOTHING* can hurt me: Healing 2d6, self only (-1), broad special effect (+1/2): Any characteristic below maximum value, one stat at a time. Keeps those pesky drain Con and what do I know at bay. Sure, you have to spend a phase to use it, but still worth it. Flashed? Yeah, right, not for long.
Get Up Quick: Teleport 1", Trigger "When I fall over" +1/4, Trigger resets itself (+? look it up), Shift Position Adder (+5cp).
Everytime you fall over, your teleport will make you get up with the position shift instantly, and because it is triggered, you don't have to do anything for it. The trigger will reset itself every time, and the power costs about 1 END to use.
The Constant power only working during your phases is a little disappointing, ah well.
Aid: with the Always On you have to roll for the effect every phase, is this action "free"? Meaning, can I still go do other things? Or is this Aid benefit using up action times?
My thought here is that he'd still be in the same boat, recovering all the time, rather than having much impact on the combat.
If there's no time penalty then this is pretty sweet, it's essentially a free recover every phase. Nice.
That's another suggestion of SFX for the effect. Now there's been talk of the free action triggered "kippup" move here, could this be added to the Aid power, which I'm still hoping is a free action, to give the following?
Get smacked around (flying optional :-)) land in a heap (SFX) next phase free "kippup" ready to go again, then free Aid, I feel much better now.
If that works, I really like that, having a lower SPD would really only impact if someone decided to pound on you when you were down.
Another way of providing a character who sticks aorund is to buy BODY and STUN as a power and buy it as a lock out with some other power.It means that as your STUN and BODY go down you begin to lose you powers as you automatically draw upon the extra STUN and BODY but that locks out various powers and abilities.
Doc
I like the broad idea of that, it fits the character idea, as he's going to be a Hulk style alter ego, I like the idea of fading back to his "normal" self as he gets beaten around.
Now, I was looking to use Multiform for the alter ego effect, would this still work? Can you have some sort of trigger that forces the Multiform to end and revert you back to your "normal" form?
I don't think your idea is broken' date=' actually, I like it a lot. Like others have said your character is a Brick archtype but not typical... pretty cool I would say.[/quote']Thanks, this is my first supers build, based on a character concept I've had for years.
Once all the various discussions are over I'll post him up.
Thanks again for all the help/comments, it really gets the old creative juices flowing.
If you just want basic Stun regeneration' date=' buy a multiple of your speed in REC and just distribute it about your phases for a +0 advantage. Fair enough. Using a complicated Healing power is just more dice for no difference.[/quote']Hmm, that's gone a little over my noobish head.
Do you mean buy as in Aid or as a Characteristic?
Also this distribution idea, is this just a limited power disadvantage? Obviously +0 as there is no detriment to the player.
Ooh lightbulb!
with regards SPD, if I'm SPD 2 and the normal SPD is 4, then you'd suggest buying my REC again and splitting it in half for each Phase? This way I have enough to hold off the damage I'm taking during my off phases?
I hope that makes some sense, I can feel my Hero Brain growing by the day :-) And it hurts.
Thanks again for everyone's input
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
I know the Hero System isn't perfect but one of my favorite aspects of the game is its continuity and virtual organic nature that I find intuitive. (Here comes the big BUT) The Maximum Effect and/or Once-Per-Day guideline on Healing power because of the potential abusive nature of the power is the exception. It's one of the few powers that instead of putting a stop sign warning on the power the warning was configured into the definition.That's an interesting point, I honestly don't think that the build I'm trying to make is 'broken' he's not meant to be a munchkin, there's a genuine desire to create a build that follows an (hopefully) interesting character design.
I agree it would be better to have the responsibility let to the GM decide if it's a broken use of the power, after all they have a lot other powers to keep an eye on.
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
I feel so left out on an insider joke.Sorry man, I know it's not good forum etiquette, but whilst having my coffee break I only had time to poke fun at Doc.
I had a quick skim through your post and will have a proper read and give it a decent response at lunch.
Thanks again for your input.
Shem
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
The thing that made that guy useful was that the opposition could not afford to ignore him, if they did he switched to offence and did them damage, so they had to address his presence which, as you say, provided others with the opportunity to backstab etc.There needs to be a credible threat. Which you have not discussed about your character - I'm sure there is but it is the other part of the equation for that kind of character.
Doc
Dude, don't try and big it up, you know you didn't do a single point of damage in that campaign
You were totally carried. -
Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
That _is_ the system. It is also one of the places where characteristics lead people down the wrong path because they immediately assume that lots of STUN/REC/Defences means that someone is Hulk-like.Think about what you are describing and you will see that it has the same characteristics as a classic brick.
What you need to do is divorce SFX from the mechanical terms that you are using.
This _is_ crunchy.
It doesn't really get much crunchier.Doc
Hmm, I think I need a bit more time to assimilate this, it's just not sinking in. I need to shift my mindset, and it just ain't happening :-)
We'll have to add this to the agenda for next week.
As far as not being combat-effective, I've always thought it would be interesting to play a character exactly like this...unkillable but not invulnerable, who can't really hold his own against supers, but feels he has to try because of his powers. Part of the attraction of this character would be using his powers in an indirect manner whenever he's able, maybe saving bystanding/hostage normals while the other supers pound the crap out of the bad guy. Another part would be slowly building up his ability to stand toe to toe with the supers...learning martial arts, or picking up some gadgets.It may not be your thing, but it's something worth considering, imo.
I like the idea of doing the "other" tasks during combat, and as for the building up, I had that thought that he had one good hit but poor OCV so his only hope was to hang in long enough to get his hit.
Also it's unlikely to be a one on one, and that character that "ties up" the opposition is pretty useful. In a game of DnD 3E there was a guy in the party who went into a parry type mode and he just couldn't be hit. Now, he couldn't hit anyone either but it made for great backstab oppurtunities.
Maybe more Tank than brick.
When you build characters, especially PCs, think about this:Will this character be fun to play? Interesting? Will other PCs want to depend on him?
Because honestly, a character who primarily does not die sounds very, very boring after a couple times. Because guess what? All other characters are not likely to die either. You are good at something everyone else is rather good too. It's very similar to the player who recently told me he wanted to play a character without combat abilities. Problem is: I told my group in advance that my next campaign will be very combat heavy. If you think sitting out half the time (for a couple months!) is fun, you might lack some experience in sitting out.
The same holds true for your character: He is basically a brick with different special effects (and I would model him as such, with high defenses or damage reduction, SFX being: I get smacked down, but hey, I can take it and get up again). The get-up teleportation is a great power too, because that's something unique and fitting (and actually useful). You could also add triggered movement to get back to where you where after knockback, or crazy high PD/ED with a mediocre activation roll ("You call that a punch?") in addition (!) to your already above-average defenses.
And what do you do? Punching supers (after you have collected exp!)? Now that is extraordinarily interesting! Be prepared to be underwhelmed. "Maybe saving hostages" Assuming there are some. And assuming the Speedster isn't better at that. Or the brick, shielding them with his body (much better, since you get knocked around easily), or the teleporter just grabbing them.
Yeah, roleplaying the underdog is definitely interesting, but even the underdog should have something to do during the day.
Yes, this heals you for 1d6 stun in every of your phases. 15 points for 6d6 stun recovery a turn (about 21), a bit cheaper than buying straight rec.
The teleport grants you a free stand-up action due to it's trigger.
I agree about making the character interesting to play, I've been stuck with characters that can only do 2 things every encounter, not fun.
I like to think that the overall shtick I'm refining for this guy will make him fun to play, this is just one effect that I'm trying to get right.
I'm also using this as using this more as a getting to know the system exercise than making a character to play, although it would be nice to achieve both
Thanks for the ideas for building this, I need to spend some time playing with all of the suggestions.
Hmm, the healing only works during your phases, even with the Always On? That still means that it is only of value with a better SPD value. Is there any healing you can get that works during your off phases?
Sorry, I missed the Trigger on the Teleport, whereabouts is that?
I think Doc's idea simulates the effect you are looking for or as some have said having a high CON. The character you are describing sounds like someone with a high BODY' date=' STUN, and/or REC.[/quote']Oh no, don't agree with Doc, it makes him unbearable :-)
Thanks for everyone's input.
Shem
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
Well, it sounds to me like you have a brick on your hands and he could quite easily be built like your bog standard brick.it will take overwhelming force to ensure that the character is taken out of the fight never mind permanently damage him. Most attacks will appear to damage him in a more cartoon fashion - large lumps appear, birds tweet about his head, black eyes, beak spins around his head etc etc - but it does not affect his combat effectiveness.
I would suggest building a brick character with the defences and STUN relevant to that and then provide for the SFX of particular attacks. If you are not seeking to gain advantage (you fall over but are not trying to convince opponents that you are prone or unconcious) then that is simply the SFX of your BODY/PD/ED/REC/STUN.
Unless they do actually overcome your defences then you will be entirely at liberty to cause damage on your normal phases.
It requires a bit of a mind flip but if the powers are not detailed on the character sheet then they wont be too confusing.
I might have a +0 limitation on the defences of (only in combat) which would reflect that if he was pricked by a pin he would bleed real blood.
This leaves you at the point where you have a character who is damn near impossible to KO or damage in a fight (despite a variety of SFX) and still gets to attack.
Doc
I'll be honest with you this doesn't quite sit right with me.
It feels very much as sfx for sfx sake, it feels a bit like "that's just how it happens"
I guess I was hoping for something modeled a bit more on the crunchy side...
Why do I have Chumba Wumba's one hit running through my head now.And this guy also kind of reminds me of Mr. Immortal from the Great Lakes Avengers/X-Men/Initiative.
I'm familiar with the song, but alas not so with the comic :-)
High CON, medium defense, High STUN and BODY, No KB resist, and a 1" position shift Teleport defined as a 'kippup'.Get knocked around, take damage, but never get stunned. Use the Kippup to avoid spending half phases getting up from prone after taking KB.
Having a really high CON is an easy, often overlooked, effective power.
The Teleport idea intrigues me, would this "kippup" essentially be a free action e.g. "kippup" and then attack?
Try this15 Healing Stun 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Persistent (+½), Continuous (+1) (30 Active Points); Always On (-½), Self Only (-½)
Just thinking about this and had a question, with Always On does this cause healing to occur every phase regardless of the characters SPD? Or does it still only apply on the characters phases?
Cheers
Shem
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
I'd give this guy a high Con, medium defences,high Stun, high Recoveryhe would never have breakfall
think Malcom Reynolds from Firefly, aways getting the crap beaten out of him but back for more and a wise crack to taunt his foes(maybe use it as a Pre attack to give him a chance to recover)
if he is going to go up against say a 12dc attacks(average 42 pts of stun) then you need to figure on a combo of defence and con that add up to 50(25 con and 25 def)
on average he will take 17 pts of stun the question is how many 17pt stun attacks do you want take before falling down just multiply 17 by how many you feel he should take before falling down(5 or 6)and that is how much stun the character should have
then give him a recovery of at least 1 average blow(17 pts)
speed should be what ever the average for the game is
you might use extra speed with a limitation(only to recover from being dazed) like at least 3 over the average for the game with lower defences and con
Aah Firefly, now you're talking my language :-) That's essentially the feel I want from the character, though without the quips, it doesn't quite fit the character concept.
That's a lot of maths you've thrown at me there, I'll have to spend some time with it as I don't have a lot of experience with the combat system, which is probably why I'm struggling to find the right balance here :-) Thanks for the input.
Nice to see you back on the boards Shem.I think one of your problems here is that you are doing the classic thing of basing an in-game schtick on meta-game concepts.
Your idea (and schtick) should be described without using any game terms and then use whatever is in the toolbox to achieve that in-game regardless of what it looks like in terms of ED/PD, CON, BODY or STUN.
So. You have a character who gets hit. What happens then? Stunned? Knocked Down? Bruising? Bleeding? Broken bones?
Does he (in your concept) get up immediately and hit back? Does he take a while to recover, then get back up? What is the idea?
Once you have those things in mind you can begin to think about what you want.
If a character is in a fight and you expect him to attempt to hit five times in a round then you do not want him stunned or knocked down (in game terms) in that round or else you need extra speed to allow for that time and still to get five hitting attempts in there. (though that does skew the action phases a bit).
Obviously, the special effects of defences and other resources (such as BODY, CON and REC) can represent things happening in the game - if an attack is greater than x STUN then opponents will see your character fall backwards with stars round his head but he shakes his head and biunces back into the fray with almost no noticeable time taken....
That is all SFX and depends on good descriptions of attacks rather than listing STUN and BODY and subtracting defence numbers...
A bit more work in game but probably a lot more fun.
Doc
Cheers Doc, fun to be back at this again.
You know the character and shtick that I have in mind quite well :-) What I'm after is someone that is so convinced that in the "real" world people aren't killed, they are merely stunned, knocked down, flattened etc, but then bounce back up again ready to hit back.
He only needs to have a couple of attacks per round.
I went the CON, BODY, STUN & REC route as this seemed to make the most sense to me. However the trap I'm in is the one already highlighted, he can get back up no problem using this method, it just doesn't leave him time to do anything else.
If you have a cunning plan for another model for this let me know :-)
Try this15 Healing Stun 1d6, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +½), Persistent (+½), Continuous (+1) (30 Active Points); Always On (-½), Self Only (-½)
Sorry, I'm still fairly new to this and am not familiar with that power, could someone give me a simple breakdown of this? As I'm at work and without my books :-(
Thanks all for your suggestions.
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Re: Only In Heroic Identity
Thanks guys!
I hadn't considered multiform, will have to take a look at that, it does sound much more in line with the character concept I have in mind.
Cheers
Shem
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Re: Combat Skill Levels
Sure. You could have +5 levels with Punch for 10 points' date=' for example.[/quote']Awesome! I thought, and hoped, that was the case.
Cheers
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Hi,
I was just looking at the OIHID limitation and was wondering if this would be a fair limitation to apply to a Hulk like character?
A character with little control over the change to a different "form".
Cheers
Shem
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Hi,
A quick CSL related question, buying a 2 point CSL can give me a +1 OCV with a single attack, can I buy mutiple 2 point CSL's for the same attack?
So 10pts on 5 x 2pt CSL would give me a +5 OCV with 1 attack?
Cheers
Shem
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
Could give him bonus speed with the limitation that he can only use the extra actions for taking recoveries. That would help him bounce back from hits without moving faster or more often than a norm.Ooh, I like that!
Back to the character sheet.
Cheers
Shem
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Re: Energiser Bunny Effect
Weebles wobble but they don't fall down?Yes, the character is going to haveto take a punch, spend a phase recovering from being studded, then counterpunch on his next phase. Difficult unless he has enough SPD to take him out of the "just a dude" category.
Low PD/ED and not too much body could make him a grease spot on his first combat, I'd suggest 75% damage reduction, BODY only, or some Absorption linked to Regen.
I think what you want is relatively low CON, high REC, and massive STUN. Or maybe instead of BODY only, give him 75% damage reduction, does not prevent being stunned.
But again, if he is ever to be more than the designated distraction/punching bag, he needs that extra SPD.
Weebles indeed :-)
I'll have a play with the damage reduction and see how that works out.
I was thinking that the extra speed would be a requirement, would 6 be enough to keep him out of trouble, or would it need to be higher?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJackBrass View Post
You might find a few flaws in the concept. Many, many years ago I ran a Golden Heroes character called The Bulletproof Man. He was almost impossible to kill, but not too hard to put down... after a time he'd get up and be ready to go again.
The villain dropped a bus on him. My chap was not, of course, strong enough to move said bus and so remained stuck under it until the fight was over.
I tried variations on the character in different systems and never had much success. My idea was to play someone who was essentially normal and had to really use his wits in a world populated by supers, with the near-indestructibility balancing things out by not letting him get killed in the first encounter, but in the end he was unable to consistently offer much to the game. It doesn't surprise me that you're having trouble with the balance, but it might be that this sort of character just has an inherent problem.
I agree that it looks like this will be hard to balance, however a bus dropping incident would slow down a few people :-)
You'd have to hope that the team Brick would find the time to help you out of a hole.
Cheers
Shem
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Hi,
I have a concept for a character that during combat can get knocked down/stunned fairly easily but keeps bouncing back. I know that getting this effect is likely to be based on values I assign for REC, END & Stun but I'm having difficulty getting the balance right.
He won't have a massive amount of BODY as he's just a dude, but due to his "schtick" he just keeps getting back up. I didn't want to set his PD/ED too high as I'd like him to take the damage but to bounce back well.
I tried a couple of sample fights between my dude and Firebrand from Sidekick and my dude got the snot kicked out of him.
He just didn't seem to get much opportunity to fight back, is that the reality to this concept?
Any ideas or suggestions warmly received.
Shem
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Re: Sidekick PD/ED question
Assuming the PD Force Field is the 20 points of Resistant PD; his total PD should be 26 as you stated- Base 6 PD + 20 rPD FF. The character has a calculated PD of 3 (STR/5) and spent an additional 3 character points to buy his PD up to 6.You figured it correctly. Looks like a typo to me.
Thanks for the sanity check
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Hi,
I'm reading Sidekick at the moment and am having trouble getting my head around the PD and ED section of the Firebrand character on page 10.
It states the following;
- PD = 6
- Resistant PD = 20
- Total PD = 23
- ED = 10
- Resistant ED = 20
- Total ED = 30
Now to me just looking at those numbers I would say that Total PD should be 26, however I have checked the errata and didn't find any mention of this.
Can anyone confirm if this is a typo? Or am I not grasping this completely?
Many thanks
Shem
- PD = 6
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Re: What do you consider “Modern Paranormal”?
Great series. Too short though
I hear rumours every now and again of a new series, but it seems unlikely now. I loved the fact that in all six episodes they didn't use the word vampire once.
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Re: Eureka HERO ?
It hasn't made it across the pond yet.However Christmas time is coming up, it's usually when they fill spaces in the schedule with unusual TV shows.
It's showing on Sky One in the UK, wednesday nights I think, and only about 3 - 4 episodes behind the US.
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Re: What do you consider “Modern Paranormal”?
When I read the thread title I immediately thought of the UK TV series Ultraviolet.
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Re: Breaking News!
I presume that this evil twin with have all the hall marks of the 80's TV show 'Evil Twin Model'?
For instance the evil moustahce and beard, and the Mwah Hah Hah's.
See, you say evil twin, and all I can think of is Knight Rider, heck even the car had an evil twin, sans the moustache. Though you have to admire the thought they put into the name, KARR. There's a 2am decision if ever I saw one....
Too much TV as a kid? Press your red button now to cast your vote.
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Re: What Fantasy/Sci-Fi book have you just finished? Please rate it...
Troy' date=' by David Gemmel -- top marks![/quote']That's good to hear, I found the last few Gemmel books to be a little on the flat side.
On a similar vein, I have just finished the second Emperor novel by Conn Igullden, very good, can't wait for the third one to come out in paperback.
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Re: How would you do this?
Way too powerful. She's not a hacker' date=' she a cyborg with a hacker toolkit built in... I'm mainly interested in how many point people thing "one attempt is work" is worth.[/quote']Have you considered using charges to show the limited usage?
You could then have the restriction of "Must be reloaded by Hacker " to have the charges replaced.
That should gve you a viable cost. I don't have my 5ER at work or I would have tried to be more thorough.
Shem
Energiser Bunny Effect
in HERO System Discussion
Posted
Re: Energiser Bunny Effect