Lord Beavis

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

In helping with eliminating the rude attacks, I have added several people to the ignore list. It's very helpful, unlike the people on the ignore list.

If you follow the idea of comic book logic, this alternate concept is not for you.

This will follow the Fuzion rule of all powered armor is the same, regardless that is worn by the Viper Mauler agent or Dr. Destroyer.

Secondly, it differs from other special effects because it is a tangible object independent of the powers it contains or allows.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

You do realize this means your thread will either slide off into oblivion or the instant you do actually post your idea it'll be bumped up to the top and the "detractors" will likely post to it again? You are clear on that, right?

 

And I am still wondering who isn't a detractor.

All I am suggesting is an alternate rule, which may or may not appear in the Ultimate Power Armor Book or the 6th Ed. I don't understand why people on this board seem so threatened by it, to shout me down, launch personal attacks, or accuse me of destroying the HERO game. I think some of them enjoy humiliating others or "winning" the argument.

This game is based on new rules and new ideas. That's how the game has lasted from 1st ed to 5th ed and beyond.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

I will continue to ignore the negative posts. When the detractors find someone else to attack, I will continue.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

M&M does have a creative and innovative combat system. However, pic 2 in your example also doesn't have "he made his damage save by three, but now he's at -2 for the next one".

I only saw it as a demo. I thought it was an interesting take.

Emulation of the genre clearly requires both "kill" and "knockout" results, with the latter being far more likely in most Supers games. Pure hit points wouldn't work. Champions (and Golden Heros) segregated death-dealing damage from stunning damage (body vs Stun in Hero; hits to kill vs hits to kncok out in GH).

I never played Golden Heroes.

M&M eliminated one d20 standard mechanic (hit points) and replaced it with another (saving throws). However, they retained the fact that a character can only take so many hits before KO is inevitable (the cumulative penalty to those saves).

The people who play it, say they like the lack of keeping track of the math.

In both cases, we have an objective means for determining the results in our game of "Let's pretend".

I agree. Objective means is the key. Which leads into my idea for the limitation.

I appreciate the more civil tone. I hope to keep this thread going with that in mind. That goes for me also.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

We can eliminate any rules you want. All Hero (or any RPG system) really provides is a more objective framework for playing "Let's Pretend". If we could all agree whether, in fact, I killed your character, wounded him, knocked him out, stunned him, or just barely missed when I pointed my finger at you and said "BANG BANG", we wouldn't need the rules and a GM to arbitrate it for us. The whole RPG rules structure just boils down to an objective means of determining success and failure in our "let's pretend" game.

In the Mutants and Masterminds game, they eliminated hit points and hit point damage. This was to "catch" the flavor of the comics. Obviously, in the comics, the hero in picture 1 of the page shoots at the villian. In pic 2, there isn't a little caption reading, "and the villain takes 25 STUN 3 BODY."

It's an interesting concept.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

As long as those who want to be positive, I appreciate their input. Just waiting for those who have nothing stick around for....goes the way. I may have to create a new thread, maybe I will hide it under " A different take on a old limitation". Don't tell the detractors!!!

(P.S. I know I can't throw anyone off the thread. I just want to discuss creating an option for 6th ed. Those who are not interested in that possibility, should read other threads)

For those who want to discuss it positively, why is the thought of eliminating it so horrid? Comics, as illustrated, change affects all the time. They do it to advance the story. Good thing I didn't bring the idea of eliminating STUN and STUN/Body damage!!!

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

and....Kristopher has left. Thank you!!...

This is not a debate, simply an exercise in creating another limitation or Power Framework.

I want to keep it positive. If you want to debate this, you may create your own thread, and talk amongst yourselves.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

I'm beginning to suspect that you're not going to be much for interesting conversations.

If you suspect this, then why are you still here? It's sad when people can't leave, even after they admit they have nothing to stay for except to get there way.

Continuing on with my point, I will wait till Kristopher leaves.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

Once again, all those people who would like to discuss the alternate limitation Power Armor or new Power Framework: Power Armor are advised to watch for further updates.

I like the idea of Elemental Control as Power Armor. I also like the idea of Power Armor as a mulit-form, but what about a suit of powered that can be reconfigured. I was thinking Mecha, but on a smaller scale.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

I see several have left, take care. A few more are still milling about, no problem I can wait.

Just finishing up some of the details. I will be play testing my idea. I will providing regular updates!!!

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

When all the detractors (those who have nothing postive or constructive to add to the new limitation or power framework) have left, I will continue with the discussion.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

As an aside, I'd like to ask you a question. You've thrown up the number of posters on this board/thread as if it was a representative sampling before. Doesn't it concern you that, if it is, NO ONE has posted anything agreeing with what you propose?

No, I understand what happens to those who oppose the "regulars" on this board. They get attacked to the point where they leave. I fortunatley believe in the positive and believe I am going to come up with an alternate idea for the good of the game.

Those who have expressed their disapproval have had their opportunity. Those who have written their own experiences are much appreciated.

I do have a question for the detractors. Would you stop playing Champions if they adopted a rule that you don't agree with? Would you just ignore it?

As always rules are meant to provide a fair, balanced, fun game.

"Powered Armor" hasn't evolved. There is no need for it "evolve". Powered Armor, just like Mutant Powers or Alien is a Special Effect. It is a justification whatever Advantages and Limitations you chose to get, be they Only in Hero ID or Activation Roll.

I believe it has. Some armor will be OIF. Some armor has evolved in a Multi-form type. I am sure those who created the game in the 70's and 80's never thought of that. I would suspect the like the idea.

Hero doesn't enforce specific Mechanics for Special Effects. There is nothing in the rules stopping me from defining an Antimatter Bomb as a Normal Attack if I want (except sense). Name one other Power Framework that exists solely to represent one sfx.

In 5th ed no, but maybe in 6th ed!!

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

I will continue on with my discussion of my new limitation for 6th Edition. Powered Armor. I will wait ( I have the time) for the detractors to leave.

Um, no. Sorry, we were here first. Go and invent your spiffy yet pointless new rules. Go play Fuzion/V&V/SAS/Marvel/Whatever. Just do it elsewhere. We don't really care, because quite frankly you're being an ass.

 

Bye! So long! Have fun storming the castle

If you are just trying to flame war, just move on. This new rule won't affect your game.

The point of this is to be positive. It will be an optional rule for 5th Ed and a core rule for 6th Ed. I haven't seen the ideas behind Ultimate Power Armor book, but I am sure there will be alternate rules in there. Why would people buy a book with the same rules just thrown back out???

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

No problem, in my alternate rule for Powered Armor, you and Dr. Destroyer can take it off. You have to carry it yourself. Bye!!!!

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

Since you've provided absolutely no indication of how you think Powered Armor should be changed beyond the fact you don't think it's applied properly (Which at best is a subjective opinion), it's difficult to get real enthused about your project. What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Making PA more expensive? Making it less useful? Making PA more prone to breakage? What? You've given no specifics; only a list of complaints which most of the posters here thought were unconvincing.

 

Personally, I think you're trying to reinvent the wheel. We've already got multi-ply steel-belted radials. Trying to perfect hybrid engines would be a better use of your creative energies

Thank you for your opinion. Take care, the exit door is to your left!!!

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

Once again, I will be moving on with creating my specific limitation for powered armor. Those who would like to create a new rule for 6th edition, it should be in print in ohhh say.....12 years, we have some time.

This rule will probably be an alternate rule or even a possible new Power Framework. Powered armor has evolved beyond what it was in the previous editions.

I knew stating the Fuzion system would get a little response. I thought it was an interesting take, but the layout of the book was somewhat of a turnoff. They seemed to cram everything to try and save space. The artwork was good, and I like it in color.

As always, the detractors, are asked to please head to the nearest exit. Watch your steps. Don't Push, goodbye!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

Please don't cross-pollinate that thread here - it's still going on. You're welcome to join the rest of the crowd disagreeing with the concept in that thread.

I agree, that is a discussion for a different thread. The specific is not important, the point is there will be disagreement in the game between the players and GM. Most people will like to agree and work together, some will not.

The trick for both players and GM is to be able to compromise. Compromise is the key, in games, marriage, politics, work, and in life.

Re: Seeking a little gming advice

The constant war between players and the GM. Know it too well.

On a different thread, I suggested eliminating the OIF limitation for Powered Armor. You'd think I suggested eliminating attack powers or voting for John Kerry (kidding!!).

Having a good gaming group where players work with the GM and vice versa is a rare and wonderful thing.

Treasure the good times!!! They don't last.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

I was reading another thread that talked about 1st ed. Interesting, the game I am playing now is 5th Ed. The point is, these game mechanics have evolved. I would never want this game to become D&D where people say "1st Ed is the only edition. I don't know what you are playing, but it isn't D&D!!"

Staying on that point, I think I will create a new limitation specifically for Powered Armor. I will call it Powered Armor. It will follow in the lines of the idea behind Fuzion, that created arch type characters. By the way, in that version, all powered armor can be damaged, destroyed or removed even Dr. Destroyer!!!! (NO!!! Blasphemy!!!!)

Anyone who would like to help out is welcome!!! Those who have no interest in the project, take care!!!

Re: Marvel's Rogue

My take is this.......for Rogue

Major Transform of natural (no technological or magical) powers, skills, talents, and characteristics leaving the subject incapacitated till Body returns. This attack requires Rogue to touch flesh of the victim.

Transform tranfers the powers, skills, talents, and characteristics to Rogue's variable power pool. Then they are assigned to Rogue unless Rogue's own equivelant power, skills, talents, or characteristics are equal or greater. If a power, skill, talent, or characteristic is equal or less, they are changed in AP and put in an END reserve.

You have just created a new power!!! I need to check with MIT for the math!!!

Re: Seeking a little gaming advice

350 is a good level to start......

These people have gamed with you for a good lenght of time...good

They have played Super RPG...good

If they want to kill .......make the enemies...cyborgs, androids, abberants, demons, undead, monsters, etc...

Your biggest problem is creating adversaries in power, numbers, and difficult locations to challenge them.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

That would be only if the rest of us had games where OIF limitatiosn were not properly played--or games characters who did not take a limitation are treated like they have that limitation anyway, unfairly.

 

Perhaps you try some games where the limitation is played properly, and then see how it works.

My point is so far we have heard from probably 16 people on this subject who "claim" they don't abuse this rule. There is another thread about munckins. I believe this rule is abused more than it used properly.

I have played games where the rule is played properly. I have run games where the rule is played properly. We have lost many "players" because we actually role-played the limitations. In one encounter, a player with an OIF actually had it damaged (one power did not work). He complained that was not fair. I said to him, "you have an OIF limitation, and the power that doesn't function is only a minor power!! What did you expect when you took the limitation??"

He said back, "Nobody really plays out these limitations. They are there to get you better lower level point heroes."

" Well, we do. Nothing mean, just fair."

After the session, we never saw him again. I kept his character, he had a good background.

Re: Please help me build a wind-based EC Framework

I would drop the flight powers out of the multipower. If someone surpresses your multipower, you are stuck.

I don't think anyone would shoot bullets at an energy projector capable of 16d6 EB. I would down play missile deflection.

I hope your character has high speed or defenses, and lots of END!!

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

I really think you should try to understand what all these people are trying to tell you. Sometimes people get themselves stuck in an argument and then just become rude and argumentative rather the admit they might have been mistaken or did not fully understand something. I believe that is the point where you are now: running on pride not logic.

I am not here not change people's point of view. Obviously, the consensus is that it never happens in my game. We don't abuse the rules.

I have only seen probably 14 people respond to this thread. Not exactly, a large sample. I would guess more people abuse this rule, than play it straight.

My suggestion, try a game where you drop the OIF. I am willing to bet if you drop it for OIHID or not at all, you will probably never miss it.

Re: OIF for Powered Armor why?

Ablative only affects defensive powers so would be of little use to all the powers in a powered armored character's pool. Same goes for activation rolls. You think Defender wants an activation roll on his energy blast? OIHID is valid but I believe it's saved for PCs. That's why, IMO.

You are right, who would want activation, that's a real limitation. Can't cheat that.

There are only two real valid arguements for OIF.

1) Lots of characters use it. If the villian who fights you has it, why not the hero. It equals out. That does seem fair!!

2) Most supers follow the unwritten rule "don't steal or destroy" your opponents equipment (focus).

The second one isn't always followed. The rational for the hero not to steal the equipment of the villian is the heroic code. Once the villain is defeated the focus is turned over (deactivated) to the authorities.

The villain's rational (irrational) for not taking or destroying the focus is that any two-bit thug can do that, but "it takes the power of (insert the name of your favorite villain)" to go toe-to-toe with Power Armor Man and defeat him.