Squall

Re: Looking for HERO stats for: "Bullseye"

Holy Thread Comic-Book-Death, Batman!

Is six years a new record?

Re: My Failed Project

I absolutely agree' date=' but what I find amusing is that people have no qualms at all about capping STR for the normal trained human, but suggest the same thing for DEX and all of sudden people break out the pitchforks and the noose.[/quote']

Oh, yeah. I'm not arguing or anything, just saying why it's always seemed to me that Strength holds a special place in gamers' collective hearts. Not just in terms of capping it versus capping other stats, and not just in Champions, or even just in HERO games...it just seems to be one that lots of gamers latch on to as their gold standard for what's "realistic," because it's the one that seems to be the most numerically quantifiable, and comparable to real-world numbers we can all wrap our head around.

Re: My Failed Project

And that brings up another oddity I've noticed in arguing this with people. If a player comes up and says I'm a normal human I've trained myself' date=' by simply lifting weights to a 60 STR. There are VERY few people that would accept that concept. Normal humans can't train and get a 60 STR. Most people have a limit for what STR a normal human can reach. However you apply that same concept to DEX and those same people that limit STR lose their minds. What's the difference? To me there isn't one.[/quote']

I think one issue is that Strength is something that's immediately quantifiable. In-game, it's easy to remember that every handful of Strength points gives you 1d6 of damage, for instance, so it's easily comparable to any other attack power for any other character, in order to set the general power level of a campaign. Out-of-game? We all have a Strength score, and know people with higher or lower Strength scores than us, and it's easy to look at the chart and see how much a given Strength score can lift, and get a general idea.

 

It's used as a "benchmark" stat for lots of people, as an easy way to see what's human versus superhuman, for those very reasons (I think).

Re: Domino costume

All I meant was...ah, nothin'. I wasn't trying to argue, so much as share my own thoughts on general superhero disguises and the "realism" of them. Anyways, never mind. Didn't mean to come off snarky, don't want to keep going and come off as even more snarky, so I'll just bow out. Had a long day, guess I'm coming off as crankier than I mean to.

Re: "Normals" gaining superpowers: how would they change in terms of mentality?

theese are powers i'd like to have

So would you go by Wolverdevil, or Dareverine?

Re: Domino costume

You misunderstand' date=' everything I said above, is real world.[/quote']

No, I don't misunderstand anything. I know everything you said about is real world. I'm just saying that just because it works like that in the real world doesn't mean it will work like that -- at least not reliably -- in a comic book universe/Champions game.

 

So when it comes to the value of wearing a skimpy little domino mask, or a change of haircut and posture, or whatever, if the writer (or GM) says it's good enough to preserve a secret identity, it's good enough to preserve a secret identity.

Re: Domino costume

While I agree is certain situations it is easy to miss someone. If I always see people in their military uniform, I may walk right by them if they have civilian clothes on, but that is in absolutely no way the same. Even the example where the friend cut their hair isn't the same. You were looking for someone who appeared a certain way, with a certain hair style, you mentally dismissed anyone that didn't fit that profile without ever REALLY seeing them. Anyone a motorcycle rider? Ever have a car driver, look you right in the eyes, and then pull out right in front of you anyway? It happens all the time, because the car driver didn't actually see you. The driver's brain was looking for a car, a motorcycle didn't fit that description so it dismissed it and didn't register. That's what you all are talking about, but that isn't what I am talking about.

 

Take a costume baggy clothes, full mask whatever you like, the problem is there are too many things that give you away. Did you know people can tell your approximate height just from the size of your hands? A footprint in dirt or sand and they know your shoe size and approximate weight. It would be next to nothing to get your actual height, just stand by an object of a known size and you're busted. Talk once where someone records your voice, now they know where you were born, where you spent a lot of your time, how educated you are and more. Sign one autograph and they almost have a psych profile done. There are just way, way, way too many things that would give you away that have nothing to do with how you look.

What works, scientifically and forensically, in real life only works in comic books when the writer wants it to.

Methods Batman uses to track down a bad guy and move the plot forward don't necessarily work when a supervillain is trying to figure out Batman is Bruce Wayne, in other words.

Re: I'm curious, why is Dex still more expensive than other characteristics?

Well, in fairness, his answer is right there in that sentence. "So they are all [of?] comparable value."

Re: Supers vs. Military

Why would Kitty have to phase through the ground, when she can just phase through the explosion?

And don't forget, the (recent) X-Men are one of the most mobile teams in comics. They've got a plethora of teleporters, capable of moving the bulk of the team at pretty long ranges in a single jump. They'd be a tough nut to crack.

Re: Champions Universe PDF And CP In Store

Sweet!

Re: "Leadership" multipower

I recently made a Cap homage, and gave him "Tactical Leader: Aid OCV 3d6, AOE 4m radius, Selective, Requires a Tactics Skill Roll, Limited Power (affected allies must be able to hear command and must follow it), Incantations"

So as a 1/2 action he can shout something for his teammates (within 4m of him) to do, makes a Tactics Skill roll (and you can ditch that part if you want, to cut down on rolling), and if it works everyone gets 3d6 cp towards their ability to punch the bad guy in the face (for almost always a +1 to hit, and really good odds for a +2).

For the points, it came out pretty well, I think. Something similar might work for what you have in mind.

Re: "Normals" gaining superpowers: how would they change in terms of mentality?

I'd say the answer depends on (a) your general thoughts towards the morality and decency of humanity in general, ( your thoughts on the morality and decency of the specific person/character in question, and © the tone of the game you're wanting to run.

Re: room filled with water

You could always force players to choose "Fake water" instead of "water"' date=' so that they can't use it to wreck electrical equipment, drink from it, waterboard someone/drown someone or do anything water can do. But hey, it sure does [i']look[/i] like water, right?

So, in all seriousness, pretend you're GMing a Champions game. You have a character that wants the power "fill a room with water." How do you have him stat it up, what power does he use for it, and how many points does he pay for it?

Re: Supers vs. Military

The problem with trying to model comic book reality is that...well...comic book reality varies wildly, and not even Age to Age, or even month to month, but just title to title. Writers are far from consistent, even with the same character(s). So many of them power their characters to exactly the level the plot needs, there's very little you can do to mimic "comics" just right. Sometimes Batman holds his own against Karate Kid, sometimes Batman gets whacked in the head by one of Penguin's lame umbrellas. Sometimes Wolverine heals himself from a few scraps of meat left on a skeleton (in just a few panels), sometimes he flounders and struggles against a large number of mundane ninja.

Individual issue? Individual story arc? Sure, maybe. I'm all for grabbing Winter Soldier or Batman: Year One as a stand alone, and trying to settle down to make a character. But when you try to do the same thing with all of Cap or Batman's history -- including crossovers and team titles where their power level fluctuates even more as they suddenly hang with guys like Thor and Superman -- is when it gets pretty teeth-gnashingly impossible.

Better to stick to a single example of a character you like, one good fight scene, a few specific feats or fights, IMHO.

Re: room filled with water

I'm sure I'm about to sound more dickish than I mean to...but seriously, is anyone else having trouble following Ayinde?

Re: Animated JLA, 6th Edition

Honestly, that's not a bad Batman at all for the points. The only thing that's really missing (off the top of my head) might be some HTH damage classes built into his Martial Arts. I know he tends to bust out some shock-gauntlet/knuckle type things for slugging it out with big guys (so I don't think it's a critical flaw/glaring weakness), but 6d6 feels a little low to me for his default attack. A few CSL's wouldn't kill him, either.

All in all, for as much as you did manage to include, very well done.

Any way to shave a few points off with a Skills-only VPP, and some Overall skill levels, maybe? He rarely uses all his skills at once, and they seem to be where the biggest points logjam comes up.

Re: Looking at characters in Champions 6E

While this would be very campaign specific' date=' it's not uncommon in comics for non-mentalist characters to interact with the Astral Plane, Dreamscapes, and the like. Whether they tagged along with the team mentalist, are being mentally attacked while they sleep, or whatnot, the could very well have to rely on OMCV to fight and possibly INT or EGO instead of STR to cause 'damage'. Again, this would be very campaign specific and I'm sure different people would handle it a multitude of ways in their own campaigns, but it is a fairly common comic book Trope and worth considering.[/quote']

Someone like Cyclops, for instance, does this all the time.

Re: Amalgamated Champions

The Juggler (Joker+Bullseye) -- this assassin-for-hire comes with a list of psychological disorders a mile long, and a kill record even longer. When his skin turned a chalky white and all his body hair was seared off by a chemical bath early in his criminal career, something deep in the psyche of this circus performer snapped. With self-inflicted scars turning his face into a perpetual manic grin, The Juggler is a lethal combatant with any sort of item that can be lifted and thrown; when he first showed up on law enforcement's radar he tended towards non-lethal weaponry (especially his balanced juggling pins, and occasionally an accurately flung cream pie), but as his clashes with superheroes continued, he grew darker and more lethal.

Re: Amalgamated Champions

The Warden -- philanthropic defense attorney Oliver Murdock does what he can to help the city's poor and overlooked by day, taking on legal cases pro-bono, making generous donations from his inherited wealth, financial activist groups, and taking a notoriously liberal stance in local politics. But by night, he dons his costume, grabs his bow, and uses his superhuman senses, martial arts skills, and zen archery to battle crime.

Re: Rigging Elections in Champions

A Madrox/Multiple Man type supervillain, set up with a bunch of false IDs, either spamming election centers or running for multiple offices across the country.

Supervillains/VIPER/whatever bullying or intimidating folks away from voting.

More of a fallout after an election than an actual rigging of it, but the electronic voting machines could infect people with a techno-virus, hypnotize them, or something similar.

Re: So, are Bricks more expensive in 6th Edition?

Urgh. Finally got a chance to settle down and re-make this guy, and wanted to post him (after graduating earlier today), and now I'm having some problems exporting (to just a text or document style format, so I can copy and paste) from Hero Designer. Curse you, technological convenience!

Re: So, are Bricks more expensive in 6th Edition?

One of these days, I must invest in this hero designer thing...heh. *Goes back to paper and pencil*

 

~Rex

It was strongly suggested to me by friends, just after they first got me to try the system, so I've used HD for as long as I've been playing HERO stuff. I'm a total addict, as a result. If someone just gave me a notebook and pencil and said to make them a character, I'd probably throw it at them, flail my arms helplessly, run around like I was on fire, or something similarly amusing.

Okay, okay, so I'd knuckle down and make a character...but it'd involve a lot of erasing, a lot of head tilting as I tried to make my History-oriented brain do basic math, and it wouldn't be the most complicated of characters. Suffice it to say I'm pretty hooked on Hero Designer, partially because it's an excellent program and partially because it's just, well, how I learned to do it.

Re: Only in Hero ID

What?

Edit: Sorry, sorry. I don't mean to be a jerk about it. Honestly, I can't make heads or tails of that post.

Re: So, are Bricks more expensive in 6th Edition?

Having finally gotten my desktop fixed, I'm now back in ye olde computer roome. My Hero Designer, somewhat ironically, is not. Lemme have a day or so to get stuff off my wife's laptop and back where it belongs, and I'll try to get my guy posted.

Re: Only in Hero ID

Well, I guess now is as good a time as any for me to bring up a class of powers that I have been using lately called "Hero Mode."

 

"Hero Mode" is that little bit of difference between a civilian identity and the heroic identity. It's the difference between Bruce Wayne and Batman. For example, I might just buy +2 OCV, OIAID (-1/4) (10x1=10/1.25=8 CP) and +2 DCV, OIAID (-1/4) (10x1=10/1.25=8 CP) to simulate that the character is simply better in combat when they are actually going out to fight crime - or whatever is appropriate to the genre.

I'm not too crazy about that sort of thing. There's nothing about Batman or Daredevil that says they can't kick as much butt outside of their costume, they just tend to (occasionally) hold back in order to preserve their Secret ID -- which they're already getting points for.

I can see the purchase of defenses for an armor lined costume, standard Focus stuff, sure. I can even understand the occasional PRE stat difference that some designers give those sort of guys, to reflect that there's increased poise, confidence, and "game face" going on (alongside the fact that Batman's cowl is designed to strike fear, that a known street vigilante might also have Reputation Perks to add to intimidation, or whatever)... but outright OCV, DCV, etc? I don't know if I'd let that fly, at my game table, just for someone changing their pants and putting a mask on.