eternal_sage

Re: Order of the Stick

THIS could be interesting.

and MAN it makes me wanna break out my wife's Oriental setting!

Re: Order of the Stick

that was BEAUTIFUL!

and my very first thought was "i wonder if he thought about changing the cast page"

very awesome

and totally glad to see the cast about to be reunited

Re: Order of the Stick

been gone for awhile. all i gotta say is never saw it coming, glad it did, and i'm STILL wishing this thing would tie back together instead of all these side quests. lol.

i always hated side quests

still, i am interested in what terrible thing that V will do in short order. (s)he's already well over the evil threshold. i'm waiting to see what sticks her there (or saves her from it).

although part of me also doesn't care. the whole story is hitting that point where its tedious to keep up with, kinda like the middle 300 pages in the Stand by Stephen King. meh.

Re: Order of the Stick

LOL!

and i love being proved right. that was a fave multiclass build of mine, and since Belkar apparently has raised his mental stats a few points since the early days, he's kicking some tail.

i love you Belkar!! wait, no! don't stab me!! *dead

Re: Order of the Stick

Guys' date=' guys, Celia is a GMPC and it's Haley's turn to shine. If Rich went all Belkarific with Celia's powers she would mop up the place with the Thieves Guild and there would be nothing left but disgruntled players.[/quote']

 

very true. i know i keep my GMPCs on a very short leash, and often have something "important to them" come up right around the time something big will happen, to keep them from interfering to much in the fight. or have them "stay behind to guard the camp" or "find another way around" or "ugh, that guy is my worst enemy evar, i must duel him to the exclusion of all the cool stuff you guys are doing" or something like that...

Re: Order of the Stick

Heh.

 

But if she's serious about wanting to role-play a total pacifist, pack wands of Polymorph Other or Sleep or Hold Person. Or Tanglefoot bags. Dunno if there's a D&D equivalent of the mini-Cyclone spell or Entangling Roots that WoW Druids can cast, but there's another option.

 

Boom. Sentient mook challenges are overcome without betraying your pacifist principles (ergo XP gained without killing) and without being a detriment to the rest of the group.

true. although i had a pacifist cleric/abjurist wizard (gave up necromancy and evocation) who got by well with mostly just abjuration spells, heal spells, and hefty use of the "aid other" action to boost allies AC. the only damage spells that she packed only worked against undead. she was devoted to Hod, the norse god of Cold and Mercy. her twin sister, on the other hand, was a evoker wizard/palidin devoted to Odin, who was the exact opposite and blew up everything... sometimes twice.

my character also had several vows from the Book of Exalted Deeds, most notably Poverty and Nonviolence. so i could not have packed anything other than my walking stick and the clothes on my back. that game kicked so much tail...

*sage waxes nostolgic...*

Re: Money in Fantasy Setting

which is why i generally steer clear of money in game. i can then merely tell the players what they can and can't do with regards to their current monetary situation and all is good, and they still get upgrades, but no eraser smudges!

Re: Money in Fantasy Setting

i usually just don't motivate with money. i try plot hooks and direct character manipulation (abuse of DNPC, Hunteds, Psyc or Soc lims, etc). my players tend to almost never get money, at least not above that which is required to get from place to place and provision the trip. my players like it, because it pretty much stops the power gamers in the first session and we're all happy.

Re: Order of the Stick

Belkar pwns muchy! But kudos to Celia for guts and good timing as well

true!

Re: Order of the Stick

which makes him a rogue killing machine. they won't even see whats coming. and then they'll have little X's in their eyes like all others who attract the attention of the Belkar.

although, part of me also wonders if we will see anymore of his devious nature assert itself now. i can almost imagine convincing the two rogues offing each other at Belkar's goading, as we've have already seen they have differing opinions and maybe even don't like each other very much.

Re: Order of the Stick

dude. ranger has d8's in 3.5, and barbarian gets the mighty d12, plus both get the best BAB and i believe both get the best REF saves. rogues get d6's and the middle BAB. Belkar should totally own, as long as he doesn't get flanked, even with them being higher level. not to mention he gets an AC bonus for being small.

magically goodies could even the fight. but still.

oh yea, and i reiterate, BELKAR IS THE MASTER!

Re: Order of the Stick

A chaotic evil ruler would rule on whim. He is capricious and cruel, and changes his mind easily from one day to the next.

 

A lawful evil ruler believes in the rule of law. He may make the laws, or he may own the lawmakers body and soul, but everything he does is legal.

Yup. If Lawful Evil Overloard wants you dead, he generally finds a law you've broken (or creates a law) and has you executed. If you've never broken his law, it may even slow down the process; he respects his own system, and believes that the respect others have for his system is useful.

 

Chaotic Evil Overlord just sends someone over to your house to kill you. He only bothers with a show trial if he thinks it will be more entertaining.

word! i think that really matches my take on it. although i tend to not take as often as i can manage.

Re: Money in Fantasy Setting

I'm not getting "done" on anyone. I just don't see the point.

some people do not enjoy a game which is completely economically impossible. we like our fantasy taste with a hint of real, or to mix metaphors a bit, something realistic gives some people something to hang their hat on when a dragon is rampaging through the country side. not everyone can accept the flagrant unreality that is DnD or others of similar genre.

Re: fantasy hero archtypes

Actually, the fantasy equivalent of a ninja would probably be an assassin. Or just a ninja, if the campaign allows ninja.

 

By the way - how would you explain ninja to someone who had never heard of them?

 

I think I see what you're looking for. When you say "ninja" you have an immediate impression of what the character should be able to DO. Just as, in superheroics, if I say "Brick" or "Energy Projector" you have at least a vague idea what kind of capabilities the character has.

 

 

You asked about the difference between a ranger and a paladin. As it happens, I've written something explaining paladins already once before, and a few words on rangers too.

 

 

Rangers first (This was specifically for Hero) :

 

PS: Ranger

 

Anyone with this skill should also have Survival and knowledge of at least one wilderness area or terrain type, and probably Tracking. PS: Ranger is often a complementary skill for outdoor skills. What a ranger can do depends to some extent on how the Game Operations Director defines “Ranger” for a given game, but whether they guard the king’s deer from poachers, guide pilgrims across deserts, or hunt Orcs wherever they are found, any ranger will know much about the wild and things the live and move there. Identifying animals and plants will often be automatic (no roll) if they are native to a place the ranger knows. A ranger can predict weather, up to 48 hrs in advance on a good roll. Rangers usually know a lot about the people and creatures they meet in their chosen wilderness, whether it’s the Goblins who come raiding from yonder mountain or the itinerant smith making the rounds of the local villages. Although PS: Ranger is no substitute for Navigation, a ranger has a good memory for landmarks and is seldom confused as to direction.

 

Examples of PS: Ranger in Use

 

Our Hero falls over, left leg gone numb. Although no wound is visible, the healer finds and removes a flint arrowhead that only becomes visible when withdrawn a handspan from the ranger’s body. Clearly, he is a victim of Elf Stroke. “I thought you said the Elves were friendly?” After making a PS: Ranger roll, Our Hero states “That’s shaped like a Troll arrowhead. Either an Elf used a Troll arrow, or a Troll has learned an Elvin spell.”

 

 

Paladins next (this was to explain paladins to someone who didn't game at all. This is only part of what I wrote.) :

 

 

In addition to what I wrote before, it is worth mentioning that a paladin is ALSO usually a knight, with all that implies - mostly, riding (usually a horse) and wearing heavy armor and using sword and lance.

 

 

Some typical paladin "powers."

(just a few examples.)

 

Faith Healing.

I mention this first because to a lot of gamers, it seems to almost define what a paladin is - "A fighter who heals." This is probably because in many games this is the ability that gets most exercise.

 

Detect Evil.

In practice, this can be a complex and subtle ability to administer in a game. Generally speaking the paladin has to stop and concentrate on using the ability, and even then it usually only works against a "major" sort of evil, something truly unholy. It won't pick a pickpocket out of a crowd of likely suspects, but if a vampire or werewolf is concealing their nature and mingling with people, the alert paladin will know that they are not what they seem.

 

Note that this varies according to the game and who's running it. Sometimes a paladin CAN detect a petty thief, especially in action; sometimes only the presence or influence of something outright demonic will set it off.

 

Protection from Evil

In the original AD&D, this meant that certain undeniably evil things literally could not touch the paladin. A vampire for example might strike with a weapon, or use its great strength to hurl a tombstone at the paladin, but could not pick him up and throw him, let alone attempt to bite. In almost every case, a paladin has some form of special protection from malevolent beings and forces, sometimes a protection that can aid others as well.

 

Immunity to Disease and Poison.

The body is but the soul's shadow. When the soul is that pure and incorruptible, the body becomes also pure and incorruptible.

 

<>

I don't know if you've seen this image. On a gaming board I frequent, someone expressed an intention to create a poster with the words "Paladin: Fear No Evil." I went out and found the image and created the poster for him; he approved heartily. I chose an image that to me expresses the true heart of paladinhood, which is NOT about going out in shining armor and smiting monsters, or exhibiting flashy powers. There's a reason the true paladin fears no evil; and the reason is not that he's stupid, and also not that he's a "bad-ass fighter" and "the meanest son of a bitch in the valley."

 

 

Typical requirements for paladins in games and recent fantasy fiction:

 

In some ways, what's expected of a paladin goes right back to the original use of the word - brave, loyal, trustworthy.

 

Brave doesn't mean suicidal. If the bandits are too many, the monster too big, the paladin may retreat - and report as soon as possible to someone in authority (king, high priest, local sherrif, etc.)

 

Loyal and obedient to authority just MAY mean suicidal. If someone with legitimate authority commands the paladin to "Hold this bridge!" or "Go forth and slay the dragon" the obedient knight may have no choice but to die bravely if he cannot survive fulfilling the command.

 

Trustworthy includes not lying, fulfilling vows and oaths, and so forth.

 

Scrupulous religious observance. As the idea of the paladin has evolved, it no longer always includes devotion to a Deity; some gamers say a paladin can be devoted to some ideal, such as abstract Justice. But if a paladin practices a religion, he will attend worship regularly, fast at prescribed times, follow all rules regarding dress, diet, and behavior, and fulfill BOTH the letter and the spirit of all commandments that apply to him. Ideally, a paladin is not obnoxious about it; but even paladins are not always ideal.

 

Code of Honor. As an example, the original AD&D paladin was forbidden from using poison. Not only couldn't he use, say, a poisoned arrow to bring down a marauding dragon; he couldn't even poison the rats in his castle, and would have to find some other way to drive them out. This is an example of how extreme a paladin is expected to be in following rules. As for dropping a drug in an enemy's drink, that would obviously be all but unthinkable.

 

Chaste. A paladin may have a vow of celibacy; but not always. Indeed, a female paladin devoted to Ishtar may be a sacred prostitute! But again, there are always SOME rules regulating a paladin's sexual behavior, and whatever they are - from total abstinence to being required to comply to all requests in a given time and place - the paladin must heed them.

 

Sober. This may range from total abstinence to indulging in moderation; some intoxicants may be permitted and others forbidden. But the only time a paladin should ever be totally stoned is if it's required for some ritual observance; part of an initiation or a cultural festival where it's expected. Most paladins would NEVER become intoxicated, because a paladin is always "on duty."

 

Generous. A paladin probably doesn't have a vow of poverty as such (maintaining weapons, armor, a warhorse, etc. is expensive, let alone if the paladin actually has a palatinate with castle.) But a paladin must give to those in need, probably must contribute to religious institutions, and unless saving for a specific purpose - such as founding a new chapter house of the order - is forbidden to simply accumulate wealth.

 

 

 

 

So one notable thing about the "archetype" (if that's what it is) of paladin: it defines not just what the character can do, but what they can NOT do and what they MUST do. I don't know if you regard "soldier" or "police officer" as "archetypes" for modern games, but that would be another example of a character type that is bound by oaths and duties, defined by what they can't do and must do as well as what they can do - by their Limitations in other words as well as by Skills and Powers.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

 

The Palindromedary is a different kind of Archetype

very nice. i think that for the ranger, one other thing to mention is a devotion to nature and the natural order. they don't go about raping a pillaging the land, but instead tend to try and preserve the land and protect it from over use and all that. in that way they also resemble the paladin in that they have a code of conduct and duties, and may even have a rigorous religious outlook towards nature (some sort of pantheistic nature worship, or even druidism, if the game world contains that type of thing). sure, not all do, but i feel, at least, that enough of them do to make the connection between them viable (if a bit superficial, since character wise, the two are often very different).

Re: Order of the Stick

Eesh, Neutral Evil would be worse.

 

Chaotic Evil at least has an agenda. NE is just another way of saying "sociopath"

i dunno. i've always interpreted chaotic evil to the worst, as they desire evil and have no compunction to not do it. if they want to murder, they do, if they want to rape, they do, etc. they have no code to check them (i.e. lawful evil, or Two Face) and its even more than just "evil for evil's sake" or evil because its profitable (i.e. neutral evil or Catwoman), its evil because its fun, or they just seek to sow chaos and destruction over all else (i.e. Joker) which is why i always think of chaotic evil as sociopathic. i can kinda see your point, i suppose, but its really all in the way you look at it, i suppose, which is why i hate alignments.

Re: Order of the Stick

oh yea. teh Belkar has TRUE ULTIMATE POWER!!!!1!!.

so awesome. and i think he just proved it!

Re: Order of the Stick

So' date=' does Mr. Scruffy now count as Belkar's animal companion? [/quote']

 

i think so. and i love the "cat-to-face" trick Belkar has taught him.

Re: Order of the Stick

See' date=' Belkar has a very [i']special[/i] way of handling bards.

BELKAR IS MY HERO!

that was possibly the best series of panels in the last... year at least!

Re: Order of the Stick

I like it.

is glad people still are, really. i'd hate to see the fan base dry up, really, it has had so much good stuff. we'll see.

Re: Order of the Stick

oh, i am glad he's sharing, and i have had LOADS of laughs from the strips. i think its about time for me to be jumping of the train if this is the direction he is going to continue in. i wouldn't want him to change directions, so much as i wish he would, if that makes sense. in other words, it would make me happy if he would start bringing everything back together now, but i won't demand it. i'll just appreciate what he's given me and go on.

i'm REALLY hoping it doesn't come down to that though. i really like so many of the characters, and i liked the story he was telling, back when was telling it. character development has been fun, but its time to get on with it.

Re: Order of the Stick

I don't see what all the Roy-less fuss is all about. It's pretty clear that his player is doing Reserve Duty in Iraq or something and the GM is just keeping his place warm.

 

Same as the whole Belkar Saga is the GM saying "The Curse was a Warning and stabbing the Oracle was the final straw." He's giving the player every chance to shape up or ship out.

 

Lots of OotS things make more sense when viewed through the meta-lens.

yea, but since i'm not playing in the game and only reading the story, all this sidetracking and the drawing out of an obviously inevitable event is getting really obnoxious. its the reason a good GM and a good writer are not always (or even often) the same person.

Re: fantasy hero archtypes

The palindromedary objects to being smacked and points out that it's Lucius Alexander who was missing the point.

my apologies to the palindromedary! *smacks Lucius twice with a herring to make up for it

Re: fantasy hero archtypes

*smacks the palindromedary

also note that it has both a camel and a Palin in it... actually, its probably apt that it missed the point

Re: Order of the Stick

very cool, thank you!

Re: Order of the Stick

contains spoilers, and i don't know HERO forum-ese well enough to spoiler tag:

(edit: fixed now! )