RDU Neil
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Posts posted by RDU Neil
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Originally posted by Arthur
Back in the day (around the time of Red October and the Illuminati BBS some 10-12 years ago), I did a lot of analysis of both GURPS and Hero damage ratings and how they matched up with KE (kinetic energy = 1/2MV^2).
I don't have all my notes, but it turned out that GURPS damage was proportional to the square root of KE (which means it was directly proportional to momentum). I contacted Mike Hurst (author of first edition GURPS High-Tech) and asked if that was the analysis he had used. He answered with "nah, I just winged it - nice to see my guesses matched up with some physics".
More on topic, it also turned out (in 4Ed Hero) that DC 1 was just about 50 Joules of energy. Each DC was a doubling of DC thereafter.
DC 1: 50 J
DC 2: 100 J
DC 3 (1d K): 200 J
Etc.
Now, with FRED, that seems to still be in place up to about DC 10 or so. After that, it appears to use the "make something up" approach. I understand the idea of "It's a game, not a physics problem" - HOWEVER - this makes it difficult to convert other RW weapons. I have a list of every weapon from an earlier edition of GURPS High-Tech and Ultra-Tech converted over to Hero. Using the math, I was able to make a consistent conversion. I'm sticking to my guns on this one (pun intended).
Arthur,
I can see this working consistently for Killing Damage... but does the translation work the same for normal damage.
Does 3d6 Normal (3 DC) ALSO do 200 Joules?
I guess what I'm asking, is, without penetration/wound damage (say he has kevlar weave without padding to stop penetration, but not absorb impact)... so just impact... would a 1d6K... say a .25 Caliber... be equivalentlike a 10 STR person punching with a push (3d6 normal)?
Yes, I know, a million differences in real life... but for game purposes... would the impact to the heroes chest be basically the same? Can we even compare "Killing Damage" vs "Normal Damage" (game terms) using real world concepts?
Thanks for the info.
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Originally posted by Toadmaster
I'm afraid that post is lost until (if) DoJ is able to get the files from the old board and make them available again.
If it is the one I think you are talking about, I participated quite a bit as did Nusord Graphite and Gewing, there was another individual who seemed quite knowledgable and who argued knowledgably against almost all of my concepts but now I can not remember who that was, I have not seen anybody pop up in gun discussions since on a regular basis except the two listed above.
An excellant book if you are so inclined is Understanding Ballistics
here is a link to it at amazon.com
This is one of the best books on ballistics I've found, it is written toward the avaerage person who may not have much knowledge about guns, because of the wide audiance it is aimed at it covers almost everything a gamer could want except for actual game conversions.
Thanks, Toadmaster. May very well pick this up.
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Originally posted by TheEmerged
If you see something like this and you find yourself thinking it might be fun... you might be a gamer
When I first saw the link, I found myself possessed of a desire to find out what was happening from a rule perspective; it makes a twisted kind of sense once you see the rules behind it 
Be glad I didn't also link the "Do you have a pulse?" video...
They have rules for throwing rocks at each other, now?
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Originally posted by BarryB
When I had a Dark Champions campaign, it was set in the same world as the super supers.
This did pose problems that have come up in other threads, notably involving a Batman write-up. I came to feel that some characters required two write-ups: one for Champions and one for Dark Champions.
While I agree that the thing that makes Dark Champions "dark" is the small-scale and gritty nature of the scenarios, it's a lot easier to enforce the genre conventions if the characters are fairly low-powered. When you have a martial artist who is tough enough to take damage from robotic killing machines and who can carve up a tank for breakfast, then it's kind of hard to challenge him in a DC campaign.
Ah... the two write ups concept. I've never had to use it, but I know what you mean. As I said somewhere else, Batman in Detective is a completely different character than Batman in the JLA.
In my campaign world, since it is more internally consistent than comic universes, I originally wrestled with the "What do you do with Batman/Cap, when the JLA/Avengers start dealing with alien invasions, and such." Or... "How can you have a team with a Thor and an Ant-Man on it as PCs?"
My answer was three fold:
1) My universe was never four color, though there were super powers. 1500 point Superman types didn't exist... those were the NPC gods like Zeus, etc. or big bads like Dr. D. So power ranges weren't so extreme.
2) Concept was more important than PC balance, so if your concept called for a well trained normal... expect to be outclassed in full blown super battles. (Even as a kid, I always thought it cheesy that Cap on a space cycle was any kind of threat to invading Kree armada's. Yes... as a tactical, inspirational leader, he can have an effect... but when he can bowl over Skrull shock troops in the same manner he bowls over jewel thieves, it lessens the threat, drastically.)
3) I alwasy discussed "character" before the game. Since the RDU is a big world, it was fine for players to have many different PCs. They could have the world beating Mega Man... and the sneaky, street fighter The Fist... both built on 300 pts., but one clearly outclasses the other in raw power, and the second has skills and fighting ability out the wazoo. Rarely do they meet... but that's fine. It's a big world and tey both have their place.
Using these concepts, I've stayed away from the "2 write up" syndrome.
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Originally posted by Steve Long
I will comment only briefly, by way of explanation.
It's important to remember that I was specifically instructed to write Dark Champions as a supplement for Champions, not as a genre book, and that Harbinger was developed for and played in more-or-less regular Champions campaigns. As such, he takes advantage of tools (teleportation technology) that would be available to him.
Once the idea of Dark Champions as a "genre" caught on, I gleefully scrapped the idea and just gave him a big Gadget Pool thing (sort of -- long story).
I find this piece that Steve wrote, very interesting. I always assumed the Dark Champs was just a sub-genre of Champions... the Batman's and Punishers in the shadows as the Avengers soar overhead. I never OCCURRED to me that it was a separate genre until things like Hudson City came out. In that supplement, you had people with code names and costumes, yet their stats were really very "normal." No powers, high tech armor or super gadgets, and would stat out as "best of the best" in an old Danger International campaign... but would never survive more than an evening in most Champions games. It was startling, to me.
My question is, to those who've used Dark Champs a lot... did your adventures tie in with a superworld (as mine did) or did you create your own Dark Champions universe/genre world?
Note: I've always kept my old DI campaign very VERY real world, and separate from any superworld stuf. I may have used Dark Champs book information, but the DI game was trying to reenact things like To Live & Die In LA... not comics.
Note II: I did use the characters from Hudson City as a group of vigilantes trying to live up to the crime fighting of Vengeance and Phantom Hawk in my supersworld. They learned how out of their depth they were, very quickly.
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Originally posted by TheEmerged
I have a sudden urge to go find that "Lightning Bolt!" link again...
ADDED: What can I say? I failed the EGO roll.
I've always said RPG's are Pretend, With Rules
I find the "friendly fire" incident in this video particularly amusing
OMG! I'd never seen this before. I think I just peed myself at work.
I don't know what is worse... the freaks trying to pull this off (especially lightning lad and his "whoops!") or the scary peasant girl type trying to activate her Clapper at the end.
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I know the book... I'll dig up a copy. I was just really hoping that the original thread was still around. Some of the posts were well written, simple, and explained basic ballistic concepts quite well.
Oh well... thanks Aglar.
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Re: Re: Dark Champions - Please no Harbinger of Justice...
Originally posted by urbwarHarbinger is a perfect example of a DC character in a low supers style DC game. His only real power is the teleporation of his guns.
You think HoJ is "low" powered? Holy Cow! I'd tremble to see your high power campaigns.
Granted he doesn't do mega dice of damage, but his DEX and gadget and skill set would make him a challenge for all but your high powered TK or mentalist types, and he would still be quite effective from ambush.
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I'm with the "Dark Champions" is about "feel" rather than "Guns and killing..." camp.
Batman and Daredevil AND Punisher are the iconic DC characters, IMO. The fact that most people think DC means "Vigilante killers" was always kind of odd in my mind. DC, to me, meant "crime fighter" vs. "world saver." The focus was on human crime and criminals... local concerns... violence and it's effect on individual lives... rather than cosmic powers and saving the world and flying "above" humanity. The Punisher is one kind of DC character, but the Batman of Detective Comics (vs. the Batman of JLA... two different characters, if you ask me...) is also DC.
HoJ is fine in "feel" except for the teleport thingee, IMO. While he should be amazingly gifted and deadly as he wants to be... part of the "feel" is dealing with realistic ballistics... running out of ammo... etc. The teleport gizmo just struck me as power gaming munchkinism.
In my campaign, I have a long running, 550 pt. vigilante type who is TOTALLY in the right feel. I had to encourage the player to buy up the DEX and SPD a bit, but this guy is all about being the best "crime fighter" out there... not saving the world with the spandex crowd.
God I love Dark Champions...
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On the old Hero Boards, there was an amazing thread about guns and ballistics. Three or four of you out there seemed to have some serious knowledge on the topic, and this thread was well discussed, evenly debated, avoiding rancor and egos in a very mature way. It contained folks ideas about translating weapons accurately to Hero... but the majority was about force and mass and velocity, and how certain ammunition differentiated itself from others.
9mm vs. .45 ACP... what are the benefits of each, the downsides... 5.56 vs. 7.62... AP vs ball ammunition... sub-sonic effects, tranference of force, etc.
Is that thread archived anywhere I could access? Are any of those knowledgeable types on these boards, now? Anyone out there have any good information sources on this (short and concise is always best
)Anyway, thanks to anyone who might know anything about this subject and wishes to share.
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You didn't?
Oh... yeah... it was an ACCIDENT!
Side effect is a better description, actually.
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Re: Menton/Mental Powers
Originally posted by aylwinI am running a Mentalist and was looking at Menton for some ideas. Something that confuses me about Menton is the fact that he has Mind Scan, and also a Sense minds power that is targeting, Discriminatory telescopic, etc.
This seems to me to be a little redundant. Can anyone tell me what the difference between the two are?
Aylwin
This is only an assumption, but I would buy powers like this so that Menton could "know" you were around, even without taking an action to Mind Scan. Kind of like he just "hears" your mental activity. I'd allow it through barriers in the same context I'd allow somone to hear sounds on the other side of a wall. Minuses the farther away... that's all.
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Re: Dark Champions House Rules...Anyone?
Originally posted by bryanbHi All,
I am thinking of starting up a DC campaign and would like to know what House rules, tips, pitfalls, plot ideas people have that have run this style of game.
Thanks for your help in advance.
One of the big discussions Storn and I had, years ago, when debating DC was the following...
Is this DARK Champions... or Dark CHAMPIONS.
IOW, is the emphasis more on low power/no power street level types... or is the emphasis on "feeling gritty" but the power levels are still super.
Both work for me. You can have a street level type who does the Daredevil "no killing" thing. Or you can have a telekinetic who uses her powers to rip out the hearts of evil doers. Both could exist in the same world, but the flow of the game will be different depending on that powerlevel.
Questions to answer:
1) Does this campaign take place in the shadows of a superhero world, or are the "Daredevil types" as powerful as it gets?
2) Is this a vigilante campaign, or street level heroes? I've always been surprised that everyone assumes DC must mean killing vigilantes, when MY first thought is Batman or Daredevil. A hero, but one that deals with crime, rather than saving the world.
3) How much better are the PCs than "normals?" In a superworld, it is easy to justify the "I've trained myself to be better than human!" but in a more realistic setting, how do you justify someone fast and tough enough to take out five thugs and dodge bullets?
4) NCM for everyone... or not? Very important in determining how "super" the campaign will be.
In the end, I'd suggest the following... Let your players be "super" but not "superpowered." By this, I'd say, give 'em 300 pts to build their characters, so they can have a $#!tload of skills and gadgets and weapons... but watch that STR is not too high, nor Defenses. Dex in the 23-29 range, 5-7 SPDs, etc. Damage Reduction of 50% (resistant, non-persistant) with no higher than 10 PD/ED is a great way to simulate that they always get knicked, but rarely take a full shot... but they are far from invulnerable.
This makes for great "Daredevil, low Batman, Green Arrow, Nightwing" style characters.
Or... if you go the vigilante route... get a lot of body bags. Your PCs should face much more lethal threats, if they themselves are acting with lethal abandon. Can be really fun, but tends to be short lived.
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Originally posted by Enforcer84
Do you guys play by email or inperson. Storn's threads make it sound very inticing, between his art and the commentary from you two...
As Nuadha said, it's a FtF game... though Storn and I have run plenty of PBEM tie-in games, as well. The RDU is a huge campaign... lots of history... lots of different "comic books" in one big universe. Right now, Storn and I are alternating weeks. I'm running the "Dragons" right now... a sub-campaign centering around mystical martial arts and a long term plot to release Japan from a Jade coccoon that has surrounded the island nation for five years, now.
Storn runs an UNTIL/Black-Ops game, super-cyber-spies in Europe... but is using M&M for the system, as he likes that better. James' reference to the "Vanguard" is our high level superhero group. Most characters are 500+ points, from EXP. Characters that started at 275, originally. That has been on hiatus since they ended WWIII by killing off 30% of China. (It's a very Stormwatch/Authority like game.)
We are all in Michigan, Enforcer... where are you?
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Hey James,
Nuadha is listed in the "Kingdom of Champions" sourcebook from 4th Edition. That Nuadha comes from a Lemuria style "sunken city" where the fomori and the like all came from. Instead of being magical, this is all based on ancient alien civilization that is remembered and retold as myths.
I've never introduced this concept into the RDU, so don't worry about that being an issue... IF we ever play this magical supers game.
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As the GM of the RDU (though Storn runs a game by-weekly, now) I really developed the world over the last 16 years based on the following concept...
"I love comics! I HATE comics!"
Basically, I loved the CONCEPT of comics universes... essentially these worlds similar to ours, but with metahuman powers, high tech, magic, etc. But I despised the execution of these ideas in the comics... because as Storn said, "Nothing ever changed."
The "to kill or not" issue was only one thing I thought about from the beginning. I realized that I had no preference, except that it should be based on role playing. If a player feels lethal action is justified or necessary, I'm not going to tell them no... they just need to realize that it will effect their character and the world. No decision is without repercussion.
Some call this gritty. Some want "enforced morality." Me... I play and run FOR the morale dichotomies... the ethical questions... the theoretical "what ifs?" As a child, I read comics, and always thought "Oh... this is so cool... but this is so lame! I could do better!" With gaming, I got the chance to tell the stories I wanted to see.
The RDU is about "people with powers." If they turn out to be a "superhero" it is because they earned it through their actions... not because they have tights on.
The PCs are protagonists. Whether they turn out to be heroes, villains, or most likely something in between... that is what the story and role playing is all about.
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Originally posted by Killer Shrike
I have one player for example that is really bad about this. I dont know why, but he just continues to come up with degenerate power-mongering characters that are really nothing more than exploits of broken rules or an attempt to push a questionable rule to the point of breaking. Background? Nope. Concept? Dude, what do you mean concept, I told you he does 500 damage each action on average! Power origin? Woke up like that one day. If he does come up with some background, or even a detail such as, oh I dont know, a REAL NAME, you can be sure it centeres around a lame pun or play on words. He finds a rule or mechanic that seems exploitable, then makes a character whose sole purpose in life is to apply the rules dodge in some fashion. In HEROs, he is most interested in any power that has a stop or yield sign next to it. He wants concepts that basically just semi-validate a lot of damage dealing. Its unfortunate, but there you go.
You can be sure that with 350 points, he will not hand in a character with 50 points of 'fluff' skills. If he has skills at all, they'll be Acrobatics, Breakfall, and/or Stealth, you can be sure. Every last ounce of pointage will be squeezed into a cup and put into a blender with a landmine. Damage will be of primary concern.
I'm with Trebuchet on this one. Dump the guy. An @$$hole like that can make any game a problem, no matter what system.
Putting up with that type is like living in America with a right wing, dogmatic, arrogant and anti-civil rights administration in the White House. I mean... that would be miserable... right?
No way I'd put up with that kind of crap.
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Originally posted by RevHooligan
I'm running a 350 point campaign, but at character creation I designated a block of pionts that could only be used for non-compat skills. I felt the extra points helped round out the characters and enabled their secret IDs to be useful and impact the game.
"a block of pionts"
Strange how typos can generate the weirdest visual imagery.
Actually, we used to do this, way back in the early days of Champions. Had to spend 50 points on non-combat skills, etc. Never needed that rule in the later years, as we matured in our gaming, and enjoyed exploring those areas without being forced to by a house rule.
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Originally posted by TheEmerged
Well, in terms of the mapping theory... I've always been a proponent of the "those other universes have always existed" school of thought. I've always used the Dreamspace as a "nexus" of realities.
I'll also second Supreme's statement about being very careful about putting the PC's against themselves. For the most part my players are pretty good about this sort of thing -- but I have had on very bad experience with this one in the past, in which a player became offended with what I had done with his "evil twin's" history/personality. While it *IS* a genre convention, like capturing the PC's its one that doesn't work as well in practice for RPG's.
That was me, actually... but thanks for agreeing.
The "those universes always existed" is exactly what I was trying to say... only you did it in a much more succinct manner.
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Originally posted by TheEmerged
Being an alternate history/counterfactual nut, I've explored several. I only tried basing one campaign heavily in the idea, but my players didn't respond to it too well.
Player response is very interesting. Some love it... others don't. I've found the one thing you need to be careful of is using parallel's of the PCs themselves. While a major conceit in literature/comics... players can HATE this. Their character is theirs, and they do NOT want to run into themselves. It is a loss of control issue for many. Too bad... as the role playing can be really fun.
Using dopplegangers of major NPCs is usually pretty safe, though.
Also, I've seen too many "parallel earths" used to explain away results that maybe the GM didn't like. That can make the players feel like they can't really change or affect the world, because the GM will just say, "Oh that was a parallel earth."
Very frustrating.
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Originally posted by Supreme
I wrote an article about this for Digital HERO called "Classic Bits." I defined three basic types of "Alternate Earths."
1. Divergent Earth.
This is an Earth created by some change in a historically significant event. This Earth exists in a timestream divergent from ours, which is effectively like a parallel dimension. The main difference is that, as time passes from the historical pivot-point, the Divergent Earths become increasingly different from each other.
Example: The Aztech Empire from "Tom Strong"
2. Parallel Earth.
This is an Earth that exists in another dimension. There isn't a specific historical pivot-point in which this Earth diverges from ours. Its a world where there may be differences that are minor, or radical. Either way the amount of difference is generally static and stays the same (hence their "parallel" nature).
Example: DC's pre-Crisis multiple Earths.
3. Other Earth.
This is another planet in the same universe that has had a highly similar, but never exact duplicate, of our Earth.
Example: Marvel's Counter-Earth from "Adam Warlock", Mirror Earth also from "Tom Strong", the Earth ruled by a modern Roman Empire from "Star Trek"
This could get into a HUGE discussion. As short as I can make it...
Parallel Universe/Alternate Earth: The same. The "historical pivot point" is a matter of scale. Based on the "Many worlds" theory in physics... ALL possible universes exist, and each moment diverges into a "nearly infinite" number of possibilities, but once you are in your chosen position, the other universes cease to exist. The superhero concept is that you can travel between these divergent universes. Some may be identical, as the only difference was that a neuron in a dragon fly during the cretaceous period fired left instead of right, and otherwise, the universes have evolved without noticibable difference. In another, the result of that neuron firing resulted in a cascade of enourmous differences. These divergences exist on the quantum level, and humans can only perceive the macro effects, if there are any.
Other dimensions: very different than "parallel universes" These are things like the Astral Plane or the dimension of Hell, or the pocket dimension of the Insectoid Warriors... or whatever. They exist on their own, and probably have their own "near infinite" number of parallel selves.
The description I use is that the universe is a thread made up of many fibers, which are all the different dimensions of which our "material plane" is but one. The macroverse is then a rope made up of a "near infinite" number of these threads. The "bleed" or "Tween space" and possibly the "psychic plane" are all aspects of the "space between these fibers/threads."
Not to mention the "dark matter" universes which may be a whole 'nother set of fibers/threads/ropes that exists simultaneously in balance with the material macro-verse.
All of this is wild, super hero extrapolation of quantum mechanics. I don't claim any of this is real... just that my whimsy is constructed upon fascinating real world theory.
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I have a very passionate player who doesn't want to play a "starting character" again. "Been there, done that..." is his attitude. He wants to start off with a character who is competent and skilled and flexible.
That's fine. To me, you can do that at 300 - 350 pts. This is not a "starting level" it is a point based for an mid-range experienced character. A fine place to start, but not a "starting level" if you get my meaning.
My campaign has a 300 pt. starting level, which I feel is mid way between "New Mutant" level (250 pts or so) and "Titans" level (or '70s Avengers level) which would be 350.
If you want a team of modern day Avengers, you are likely looking at 500 plus, for all the perks, and sub skills and team tactics and just raw power... and that doesn't include Thor, of course.
These are just my "winging it" power levels, but they've proven pretty true in my past experience.
Hope this helps.
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Parallel worlds are very important in my campaign. Originally, in high school, we had one campaign world. I created a new one in college with my new friends, which continues to this day. These two gaming continuities are parallel earths. Some characters have crossed over.
The Strikeforce book is it's own universe. I hope to have it updated by Allston one day, so I can return to that world.
I've had characters exploring the differences between "different dimensions" and "alternate universes" and it is a very important metaphysical concept in my world. A long running subplot through many different comics was that of a group dedicated to closing down the paths between universes, because the "bleed" between universes unleashed chaos and destruction. Their motives were good, their methods machiavellian at times. This also got into the idea of cleaning up "alternative time lines" and is there any difference between that and a "parallel universe."
It's fun to play with these concepts... though I would shy away from using published characters like Marvel, DC, etc. I prefer my own alternate earths.
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Re: Re: Page 253
Originally posted by SupremeNo. As a GM I consider any and all desires that players have about rolling dice to be something of a sacred cow. If they want to roll all their damage dice, fine. If they want to pre-generate them instead, also fine. The only dice-idiosyncracies I have any problem with are the ones that slow down the game. I will not let a player with a 12+D6 attack roll each die individually. I myself indulge in a lot of dice idiosyncracies/superstitions and feel it is only right to respect the same in others.
Dice rolling is one of the things I love about Champs/Hero.
Yes... some folks complain about rolling lots of dice and adding them up... but I see just as much delight and anticipation from players when a bad guy gets in a good shot, and I start shaking a handful of dice. "Oooohh... that sounds like a lot of dice!" they say, and laugh. Often I roll the big attacks out in front of them... so they can laugh when it comes up with seven "ones" or groan and cry with I get eight "sixes."
I love rolling lots of dice. One of my major gripes with M&M is the simplicity of the die rolling. How boring is a single d20!
As someone early said... it's all about multi-tasking. Rolling dice, adding numbers, telling a story, keeping track of initiative, spouting dialogue, eating Twizzlers AND talking about the latest episode of Buffy, without stopping the game, is very important. If you can't do that as a GM... you really need to learn.
When I first saw the link, I found myself possessed of a desire to find out what was happening from a rule perspective; it makes a twisted kind of sense once you see the rules behind it 
Ballistics & Guns & such
in Other Genres
Posted
Can't get that page to load. It tries, and then stalls out.
Thanks for the link, though, Blue. If it is the one I'm thinking of, I'll owe you one.