Need clarification on combined attack

[ioticus]

I'm unclear on exactly what can and can't be used in a combined attack.  The rules state you can use 2 or more powers as long as they are not combat/martial maneuvers.  But as far as I can tell all attacks use a combat maneuver, which is either a strike or in the "other" category under combat maneuvers in Chapter 3.  Could a dragon, for example, use 2 claws and a bite as a combined attack?  The Hero System Bestiary seems to imply that monsters only use multiple attack, since combined attack is never mentioned in the general monster rules (only multiple attack is mentioned).  I also find it strange that you only use one attack roll in a combined attack, meaning all attacks either hit or miss.  It would make much more sense to me if you rolled separately for each attack, since it seems much more realistic that some attacks could hit and some could miss.  I actually assumed you roll separately for each attack when I first read the rules, but was surprised when I read the FAQ stating you only make one strike roll.  I find it ironic that combined attack is a strike which is in fact a combat maneuver!

[Christopher R Taylor]

OK I sympathise with your confusion because the concept is laid out in a really complex and confusing way in an attempt to block off abuse and misuse.  

 

First we have to define a couple of terms.

 

Combined Attacks are attacks with each of your abilities, once (claw/claw/bite/tail sweep/wing bash for a dragon for example: one of each claws, jaws, wings, tail).  You can attack with every attack power you can use at once, but only once from each power.  This has no penalties.

 

Multiple Attacks are attacks with any attack, as many times as you want, even using the same power over and over again.  Dragon clawing someone 4 times, biting twice, and tail sweeping, for example.  This has pretty significant penalties.

 

You can only use strikes with Combined Attacks and Multiple attacks, as it is a combat maneuver in its self, and you cannot (usually) combine combat maneuvers.  There are exceptions: you can set and brace, but its rare.  Strike is listed as a combat maneuver, but its an exception; this is the base kind you can use in a variety of different ways.  You cannot use Martial Strike/Shove/Legsweep/Haymaker in a Combined or Multiple attack because that would be combining multiple combat maneuvers (which are not strikes) at once.

 

As for the Combined Attack using one attack roll, that is not per the rules as far as I know.  To the best of my knowledge you roll repeatedly, each attack, at the full penalty and as soon as you miss, you cannot make any further attacks.  The examples and wording of the maneuver make this pretty clear.  For example:

 

Quote

That’s two attacks, so he suffers a -2 OCV penalty for that, and he’s mixing HTH and Ranged attacks, for another -2 OCV penalty. So he’s at a total of -4 OCV on both Attack Rolls.

 

 

[ioticus]

You have definitions of Combined Attack and Multiple Attack switched.

[Christopher R Taylor]

LOL so I do, I'll fix that!

[Hey I Can Chan]

My understanding is that a character can make a Combined Attack if the character has 2 or more Attack-ish Powers that can be used simultaneously. You're right, of course, that the text says that the character that wants to make a combined attack can't also use any "Combat/Martial Maneuvers," but the text also says that a Combined Attack "counts as a type of Strike" (6E2 74). I suggest just letting the text to make exceptions to itself—it has to for playability and to fulfill the mandate of what is, ultimately, a really complicated series of exception-based design choices. So while a character can't use a Martial Grab during a Combined Attack, a character can make a unique Combined Attack that counts as a Strike, pretty much because the game says a character can?

 

That said, yes, if the dragon's main claw, off-claw, and bite Powers are each available for use simultaneously (e.g. the dragon bought them as 3 separate and standalone Powers, the dragon has a sufficient Multipower reserve), then the dragon could make a Combined Attack with those Powers following those rules (one target, one roll, etc.). 

 

With costumed supercharacters, in my experience, Combined Attacks aren't often a thing because a Combined Attack often butts hard against the limits on DCs or Active Points or whatever guidelines that the GM's established. If you're the GM and designing fantasy monsters, on the other hand, you probably need to be careful not to overpower your monsters by accidentally giving them shockingly deadly Combined Attack options. Maybe consider buying the monster a Multipower with a smaller reserve or a Power with the Alterable Point of Origin (6E1 144) Adder instead of buying all of the dragon's individual Powers separately and specifically?

 

Also, I'm with you on the narrative view that it should take 3 rolls to make 2 claws and a bite. But what the game sees with a Combined Attack is pretty much the opposite of the Limitation Linked (6E1 383–5). That is, in the abstract, every Power a character buys can typically be used on the character's Phase precisely because the character paid enough points for the Power to be available for use. A Power that a character can't use on the character's Phase is wasted points. (This is why folks buy movement Multipowers, for example.) Thus, if a character paid 12 points for a Restrainable 1d6 HKA, another 12 points for another Restrainable 1d6 HKA, and 24 points for a Restrainable 2d6 HKA, the game allows that character to go ahead and Attack (against one target with one roll) as if the character had just bought a Restrainable 4d6 HKA. Essentially, that's what the character paid for. (Note that, in this case, I'm sure somewhere in the game says that the character can't also effectively add, here, 3x the character's Strength to his HKAs—that a character is restricted to applying his Strength but once for each Attack, even if that Attack happens to be a Combined Attack. However, if the multiple-uses-of-STR thing is the real issue, that citation becomes necessary.)