Fantastic Four, Champions-Style

[Benzini]

Ultimate ideas

 

Has anyone read Ultimate FF? it has taken ooff to a great prelude..(and Reed, in this universe, seems to have the vast intellect from youth

[Guest cubist]

Reed always had the vast intelligence from childhood- he was responsible for stopping that bigass alien by using his intelligence before he got his powers, he designed the rocket, he did better than Doom in school and found the flaw in Doom's calculations, etc. I'm not sure what writer retconned this idea, but its false as far as I am concerned.

[Metaphysician]

Re: charater links

 

Originally posted by Benzini

http://www.mactyre.net/scm/deejay/champs/teams/ff.html

this has some nice write ups

 

Not bad ( the pricier ones, that is ). Reed desperately needs a tech pool, though, and I don't know what rules hack the Human Torch is using to stick the Nova Flame inside the multipower. They all could also use some more in the way of "rounding" skills.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by cubist

Reed always had the vast intelligence from childhood- he was responsible for stopping that bigass alien by using his intelligence before he got his powers, he designed the rocket, he did better than Doom in school and found the flaw in Doom's calculations, etc. I'm not sure what writer retconned this idea, but its false as far as I am concerned.

 

Here's a thought:

 

His flexible body also makes his mind more flexible... which is what has allowed him to *keep* his supergenius. Without his powers, he becomes somewhat less creative and out and out smart.

[Guest Champsguy]

Originally posted by WhammeWhamme

Here's a thought:

 

His flexible body also makes his mind more flexible... which is what has allowed him to *keep* his supergenius. Without his powers, he becomes somewhat less creative and out and out smart.

 

"Keep" his supergenius? I don't see why he'd lose it without his powers. He's always been that smart. It's not connected to his powers.

 

I know that some writer at some point said part of his intelligence was due to his stretching. I also think it's something that should be ignored.

[Vondy]

I would think they'd weigh in in the 500-600 point range. The real advantage of the FF isn't their power level, which is really just the upper end of average, all things considered.

 

It lies in the breadth (power stunts they've developed), and experience (extremely high teamwork, tactics, and "power" skill rolls).

 

They know how to work together and put the powers they do have (lots of people are in or above their league in that sense) to maximum effect.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by Champsguy

"Keep" his supergenius? I don't see why he'd lose it without his powers. He's always been that smart. It's not connected to his powers.

 

I know that some writer at some point said part of his intelligence was due to his stretching. I also think it's something that should be ignored.

 

No - but some of his rubber science is a stretch

[Agent X]

They are pretty tough.

 

Invisible Woman can toss around force fields that the Thing can't normally break through. That's gotta be a Force Wall in excess of what? 19PD/19ED or so?

 

The Human Torch has his Nova Flame that Invisible Woman can't contain with her Force Wall but can protect against from a distance. That's a mighty big, powerful explosion.

 

My gut tells me when you add up all the little things they all will go over 600 points.

[Guest cubist]

Just pulling up my pdf of the FF compendium for MSh game, I note they have the Fantasticar, the Pogoplane, the sky cycles, the Intercontinental Passenger Missle, the Reducta Craft(for travelling in the Microverse), the Negative Zone Explorer(a baby spaceship), and a Skrull starship! How many points that's worth alone? On top of that, add Four Freedoms Plaza(fully robotic security systems, a FF class gym and combat training facility, Negative Zone Portal, all Reed's labs and Johnny's automative workshops, etc), their Hydro Base Hangars and whatever other bases they have that I don't have info on, their 20+ area knowledges each(Microverse, Latveria, Negative Zone, Blue Area of the moon, Skrull Homeworld, Atlantis, Salem, etc.), their unstable molecules uniforms that provide some limited life support options plus their expanded life support gear, their contacts with oh, everybody!- these are not even considering their powers or individual skills and yet they are probably worth over 150 points for each character. Add in powers, stats and individual skills(especially Reed's) and we're talking about extremely jigh point levels for each of them. I wouls guess that were I too convert them, they would be 800 or so points apiece, maybe more, maybe less. I can't see building them on less then 700 points at all without seriously cutting them down to size.

 

Just my .02 though.

[Vondy]

Originally posted by cubist

Just pulling up my pdf of the FF compendium for MSh game, I note they have the Fantasticar, the Pogoplane, the sky cycles, the Intercontinental Passenger Missle, the Reducta Craft(for travelling in the Microverse), the Negative Zone Explorer(a baby spaceship), and a Skrull starship! How many points that's worth alone? On top of that, add Four Freedoms Plaza(fully robotic security systems, a FF class gym and combat training facility, Negative Zone Portal, all Reed's labs and Johnny's automative workshops, etc), their Hydro Base Hangars and whatever other bases they have that I don't have info on, their 20+ area knowledges each(Microverse, Latveria, Negative Zone, Blue Area of the moon, Skrull Homeworld, Atlantis, Salem, etc.), their unstable molecules uniforms that provide some limited life support options plus their expanded life support gear, their contacts with oh, everybody!- these are not even considering their powers or individual skills and yet they are probably worth over 150 points for each character. Add in powers, stats and individual skills(especially Reed's) and we're talking about extremely jigh point levels for each of them. I wouls guess that were I too convert them, they would be 800 or so points apiece, maybe more, maybe less. I can't see building them on less then 700 points at all without seriously cutting them down to size.

 

Just my .02 though.

 

Well, sure, if you consider their communal bases and vehicles (don't forget the +5 doubling rule, though) beyond their personal skills and abilities, they get much more expensive, but all those cool bases and vehicles don't really factor into my assessment of where they stand as individual characters.

 

Most of the things you noted are plot devices and story points (with the exception of the costumes) - though they would still end up dumping points into them. Its like doing your taxes, there are certain things you deduct to find your adjusted income and tax owed.

 

I feel I could comfortably make the FF in the 500-600 range (as individuals without the team gear) with the exception of Sue, who would probably weigh in around 650 (there is an extremely similar character on my team who weighs in at 659).

[KA.]

Originally posted by Champsguy

"Keep" his supergenius? I don't see why he'd lose it without his powers. He's always been that smart. It's not connected to his powers.

 

I know that some writer at some point said part of his intelligence was due to his stretching. I also think it's something that should be ignored.

 

Well, Champsguy, I am disappointed to see you turning a blind eye to this.

 

I suppose that this means you deny the Superior Intellectual Prowess of Ralph Dibny and Eel O'Brian!

 

Just kidding.

 

KA.

[Guest WhammeWhamme]

Originally posted by Champsguy

"Keep" his supergenius? I don't see why he'd lose it without his powers. He's always been that smart. It's not connected to his powers.

 

I know that some writer at some point said part of his intelligence was due to his stretching. I also think it's something that should be ignored.

 

At heart, this is a rationalization.

 

However...

 

Have you ever really noticed mental deterioration? Persons with active, flexible minds maintian their mental abilities better.

 

So, while he *used* to be that smart without his powers, maybe now his brain's functioning is partly dependent on his being malleable.

[Guest cubist]

or maybe, and granted this is almost as much of a stretch as the stupid "being smart is his power" idea, is the fact that people who consistently challenge themselves intellectually are more prone to hold onto their intelligence even as they grow older. How many normal people have had to invent dimensional gateways, antigrav vehicles, rockets, super weapons, etc. on a weekly(if not sooner) basis?

The whole "flexibility" argument is weak- Reed is one of the smartest men in the MU (the smartest would likely be the High Evolutionary) and would have still been so without his powers, although he would likely have been less intellectually challenged and that may have affected his ability to stay fresh and at the top of his fields.