Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

[JLXC]

OK I am trying to get over my "D&D" mindset, BUT... as the GM I want to allow longer term spells.

 

Examples:

 

Light spell that lasts let's say a Day.

 

Mage Armor that lasts a day.

 

Missle Shield that lasts 20 minutes

 

Detect Magic that lasts an hour.

 

Flight spell that lasts a couple minutes.

 

Etc. etc.

 

So I am TRYING to get into the Hero spirit.

 

Should I do Continuing Charges? Should I do Uncontrolled? My main problem is the Hero "There should be an obvious way to shut off these continuing or uncontrolled powers." So if someone casts a Flight spell there has to be some easy and well known way to stop it? And detect magic? And light?

I'm not really comfortable with this. I LIKE spells that pretty much stay up until they are dispelled or countered by other magic. I could just do CC or Uncontrolled and Ignore the "easy to stop" part... but is that going too far? I'm just getting ready to run a long term game here, and I am nervous of screwing it up right from the get go, because the players will not be adaptable to major changes in the magic system once we really get going, not that I can blame them, I would prefer not to do it.

 

So should long terms all be bought to 0 End, Uncontrolled? Does CC work? Heck what works for you GM's?

 

Warning I may be a too player friendly GM, but the baddies get the same perks heh.

 

So let me put out a few options here..

 

1. Force Field (5,5), 0 end, Uncontrolled (Lasts 1 day unless dispelled)

2. Force Field (5,5), 1 cc of 1 day

3. Force Field, 0 End, Persistent

 

How about ...

 

1. Flight 10", 0 End, Usable on others Simultaneously, Uncontrolled (lasts 5 minutes)

2. Flight 10", Usable on others Simultaneously, 6 cc of 1 minute each

3. Flight 10", Usable on others Simultaneously, 0 End

 

 

Also, do many of you GM's ignore the LOS for Usable on others? So that if someone casts Flight on someone else and then they fly over a hill they don't just fall out of the sky? Do you use Uncontrolled so that LOS is no longer needed?

 

 

I sorta wanted to run all magic spells off Charges ranging from 1 shots to continuing just so that there were clearly defined limits for these new players. But the other aspects of CC bothers me.

 

I'd love to hear what you all think. Thanks.

[Snarf]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

Do you own Fantasy Hero? The Lingering advantage in Fantasy Hero is definitely what you're looking for.

 

Other than that, Continuous and Continuing charges would also do what you want.

[SirViss]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

Don't forget Magic Items. Basically, what they are are spells that last a VERY LONG time...

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

Do you own Fantasy Hero? The Lingering advantage in Fantasy Hero is definitely what you're looking for.

 

Other than that, Continuous, Uncontrolled, and Continuing charges would also do what you want. You have to use all three though, if you just use continuing charges and continuous, all you have to monitor the spell the whole time you're using it. Uncontrolled lets you fire and forget.

Continuing Charges do not require Uncontrolled.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

I define the shut off condition for all Continuing Charges and Continuous Uncontrolled Spells to be encountering any AoE Dispel that would affect the Spell normally and has more Active Points than the Spell in quesion.

[Snarf]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

Continuing Charges do not require Uncontrolled.

In that case, I should have said Continuous and Continuing Charges. I'll go back and edit out the bad advice to make sure it doesn't spread...

[DrFurious]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

Here are some ideas and musings that I've wanted to apply in some FH campaigns.

 

The problem with using charges is that you then need to start worring about clips and then wanting to have END (mana) spend on the charge regardless. Well, it just seems a bit of a hack job to me to get the effect you want.

 

For spell duration effects I use a Duration advantage; based on the 1/2 END and 0 END advantages.

 

For a +1/4 advantage, spell effects that last for a phase last for a Turn. I prefer spells to last for this duration since it makes casting spells useful without sucking a lot of END from the mage. You might want to make the Turn as the default time period for all spell effects (excluding attacks of course). This tends to help make starting mages beefier without becoming crippled with END expenditures.

 

For each additional +1/4 advantage, the duration extends one step on the time table. Note you are paying more for the power than a straight 0 END advantage but this allows you to set durations from minutes, hours, days, months, and years without having to make arbitrary rulings on time limits.

 

I don't know how you're having mages pay for magic in you campaign but you'll need to carefully evalute how the various character types can spend their experience. Ideally, you want to give enough xp so that mages and fighter types can increase in power without overshadowing each other. You can do this by tweaking how much mages need to spend to gain new spell effects. If buying spell effects is too pricey, then the non-mage types will have a lot of xp to spend. You'll soon see their combat abilities maxed out to the campaign limits while the mage is still trying to buy fireball.

 

Personally, I favor using multipower pools for the mage. You can get by with a relatively small pool and still have some good combat abilities. If you're worried about splitting spells between the pool points, the Uncontrolled advantage can be put to good use. Since defensive powers are quite cheap, I usually build them using uncontrolled with a few difficult to dispel levels. The added advantages bump up the costs to a reasonable level with similar attack spells.

 

Should I do Continuing Charges? Should I do Uncontrolled? My main problem is the Hero "There should be an obvious way to shut off these continuing or uncontrolled powers." So if someone casts a Flight spell there has to be some easy and well known way to stop it? And detect magic? And light?

 

I'm not really comfortable with this. I LIKE spells that pretty much stay up until they are dispelled or countered by other magic. I could just do CC or Uncontrolled and Ignore the "easy to stop" part... but is that going too far? I'm just getting ready to run a long term game here, and I am nervous of screwing it up right from the get go, because the players will not be adaptable to major changes in the magic system once we really get going, not that I can blame them, I would prefer not to do it.

 

I'd stay away from continuing charges - they just complicate things with END costs per spells and the number of casting times per day, etc. You can avoid uncontrolled by using the duration advantage (see above). As for Uncontrolled's requirement of "obvious and easy to stop" part, if magic is common then a dispel should be good enough. This does mean that uncontrolled spells are a bit fragile - which can be neat in some games. A spell that has been tied off and left along by a magus can be easily dispelled by another magus.

 

Alternately, you can use superstitions as the "turn off" condition. A gesture to ward off evil may cause a flight spell to die off. Folklore is filled with means and measures of various ways to remove a curse or spell. This can definitely inject a flavor to your campaigns.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

Here are some ideas and musings that I've wanted to apply in some FH campaigns.

 

The problem with using charges is that you then need to start worring about clips and then wanting to have END (mana) spend on the charge regardless. Well, it just seems a bit of a hack job to me to get the effect you want.

 

a) Why would one need to worry about charges?

Why would a spell perforce have to cost END?

 

For spell duration effects I use a Duration advantage; based on the 1/2 END and 0 END advantages.

 

For a +1/4 advantage, spell effects that last for a phase last for a Turn. I prefer spells to last for this duration since it makes casting spells useful without sucking a lot of END from the mage. You might want to make the Turn as the default time period for all spell effects (excluding attacks of course). This tends to help make starting mages beefier without becoming crippled with END expenditures

 

For each additional +1/4 advantage, the duration extends one step on the time table. Note you are paying more for the power than a straight 0 END advantage but this allows you to set durations from minutes, hours, days, months, and years without having to make arbitrary rulings on time limits.

You should check out Lingering. Fantasy HERO pg257

 

Since defensive powers are quite cheap, I usually build them using uncontrolled with a few difficult to dispel levels. The added advantages bump up the costs to a reasonable level with similar attack spells.

Uncontrolled is primarily for Attacks. Persistant is more appropriate to Defenses. Most Defenses are also inherently Persistant.

 

 

I'd stay away from continuing charges - they just complicate things with END costs per spells and the number of casting times per day' date=' etc. You can avoid uncontrolled by using the duration advantage (see above). As for Uncontrolled's requirement of "obvious and easy to stop" part, if magic is common then a dispel should be good enough. This does mean that uncontrolled spells are a bit fragile - which can be neat in some games. A spell that has been tied off and left along by a magus can be easily dispelled by another magus.[/quote']

Actually, on the contrary, I find Continuing Charges to be extremely simplifying. Continuing Charges a) Cost No END Are effectively Persistent/Uncontrolled c) dont take up space in a VPP or require a slot in an MP once activated d) have an exactly defined duration e) precisely control frequency of user per day.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

Here are some Magic Systems that Ive done. Some are Charge Based, some are END Based, some are Skill based, some are VPP based, some are MP Based, some are EC Based.

 

For the ones that are Charge Based, Continuing Charges are used to determine duration for constant/continuous effects.

 

For the ones that are not Charge Based, Costs END Only to Activate and/or Persistent/Uncontrolled are used for constant/continuous effects.

 

[DrFurious]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

a) Why would one need to worry about charges?

Why would a spell perforce have to cost END?

While spells don't necessarily need to cost END, I find it a good way control the effect of a mage on the game. I dislike charges for spells since it kinda forces you to decide how many times you're going to use that spell. For some styles of magic, this can be appropriate but is out of place in others. I guess this is more of a personal preference thing.

 

I know that charges can control how often a spell is used but I prefer to have that flexibility to remain with the mage.

 

You should check out Lingering. Fantasy HERO pg257

 

I had it at one point but got rid of it for various reasons. Generally I prefer to use existing advantages rather than make up new ones - even if they are "official" but in another book.

 

Actually' date=' on the contrary, I find Continuing Charges to be extremely simplifying. Continuing Charges a) Cost No END Are effectively Persistent/Uncontrolled c) dont take up space in a VPP or require a slot in an MP once activated d) have an exactly defined duration e) precisely control frequency of user per day.[/quote']

 

It's point e) that clashes with the flavor of my spell write-ups.

[JLXC]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

Thanks all I am abosorbing what you all said but I want to point out one thing right now about Lingering. Not only is it VERY expensive, according to the Hero FAQ if you have it in a multipower you have to have Charges equal to the number of Phases it is running for attack powers. You can use continuing charges to keep Lingering going. I know it is stupid check it out in the FAQ for yourself. It's on the last page in the Fantsy Hero little part.

 

Also, so this might help you guys out to help me here the the magic system I am using for the game.

 

Magic is a universal force that some special people can tap into.

 

All spells are paid for individually (unless the spell itself is a multipower) with real points divided by 3.

 

All spells have Delayed Phase, Gestures, Incantations, OAF (either Foci or Expendable). Attack spells have an additional -1/2 disadvantage for being an attack spell as talked about in the FH book I do own. Also Priests have a -1/2 "Must be serving Gods Purpose" disad.

 

The still lingering part is Charges or not. Because of the CC or Uncontrolled. But I am reading what you all wrote so I hope to iron this out soon.

 

Thanks!!

 

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Still new GM looking for long term spell answers...

 

Thanks all I am abosorbing what you all said but I want to point out one thing right now about Lingering. Not only is it VERY expensive' date=' according to the Hero FAQ if you have it in a multipower you have to have Charges equal to the number of Phases it is running for attack powers. You can use continuing charges to keep Lingering going. I know it is stupid check it out in the FAQ for yourself. It's on the last page in the Fantsy Hero little part.[/quote'] Actually, its not stupid, its rather advantageous. Lingering allows you to take Continuing Charges automatically. Thus, +1/2 Lingering 1 Turn for example is effectively Constant for the purpose of assigning a Continuing Charge. Lingering and Charges go together very well because of this feature of Lingering. As a side bonus, HDv2 even tracks it for you -- if you add Lingering on a Power with Charges it automatically sets the Charge to be Continuing at the same duration as the Lingering.

 

Lingering is not particularly expensive in any system of Magic that has mandatory activation limitations like Incantations, Gestures, RSR, etc. as it allows you to "cast" an Instant Spell once but use it potentially many times per casting. It's very advantageous and generally worth the cost.

 

Also, so this might help you guys out to help me here the the magic system I am using for the game.

 

Magic is a universal force that some special people can tap into.

 

All spells are paid for individually (unless the spell itself is a multipower) with real points divided by 3.

 

All spells have Delayed Phase, Gestures, Incantations, OAF (either Foci or Expendable). Attack spells have an additional -1/2 disadvantage for being an attack spell as talked about in the FH book I do own. Also Priests have a -1/2 "Must be serving Gods Purpose" disad.

Sounds like a pretty standard Turakian Age style system. I think forcing Delayed Phase, Gestures, Incantation, and OAF for every Spell is somewhat homogenizing. I prefer the "All Spells must have a minimum of -X in Limitations chosen from the following list {list of allowable lims}" method as it allows variation in Spell design.

 

 

The still lingering part is Charges or not. Because of the CC or Uncontrolled. But I am reading what you all wrote so I hope to iron this out soon.

 

Thanks!!

 

 

Just settle on one or the other. My recommendation is to use either END or Charges, but not both in the same Magic System.