Hot Enough For Ya?

[Metaphysician]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

While I agree that being inside a star should be enormously damaging, I disagree on most of those exact figures. They clash considerably with the idea that +1 DC = 2x power. Thus, if an equal heat nuke is ( say ) 20d6 RKA, modifying for continuous exposure from 1 millisecond to 1 second ( phase ) would up it to 23d6+1 RKA.

 

Likewise, the nuke damage figures are all about 5d6 too high, and really should be rescaled to 1 Megaton = 15d6 RKA ( plus Area, plus Megascale, plus blahblahblah ).

[OddHat]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

I'd just give them Desolidification, maybe with Invisible Power Effects, and appropriate Life Support. The same method was used in Galactic Champions. Also lets you survive Nukes if you know they're coming without making you invincible in combat. The alternative if the character is invincible would probably be something like 150+ double hardened ED and the appropriate LS, but that does not match what you tend to see in comics where this sort of thing happens.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

I really, really don't the "Desolid as Invincibility" construct, especially with designated effects like "Only against non-superpowers."

 

Besides, shouldn't be necessary if you use a more reasonable damage scale for being on or in a sun. The portions nearer the surface that are "only" as hot as a megaton nuke blast would "only" inflict about 21-22d6 RKA every phase. . .

[Rapier]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

The portions nearer the surface that are "only" as hot as a megaton nuke blast would "only" inflict about 21-22d6 RKA every phase. . .

A lil nitpicky...but segment. Damage would occur every segment. Makes a big difference.

[OddHat]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

I really, really don't the "Desolid as Invincibility" construct, especially with designated effects like "Only against non-superpowers."

 

Besides, shouldn't be necessary if you use a more reasonable damage scale for being on or in a sun. The portions nearer the surface that are "only" as hot as a megaton nuke blast would "only" inflict about 21-22d6 RKA every phase. . .

 

The Desolid as Invunerable construct is by-the-book, and allows 350 point characters to walk on the sun if that's the kind of campaign a GM wants to run. I'm fine with it.

 

You are of course free to do as you like in your campaign.

[Lupus]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

The problem I can see is that the nuke blast should be more LIKELY ot damage (better penetration, maybe?) while the sun is sustained.

 

Therefore, what about reduced penetration on the sun? Make the core 100d6 KA, with reduced penetration... oh, 5 or so. So 150rED will still protect fully against the Body damage... not necessarily the stun.

 

That might allow some things to survive that shouldn't... perhaps AVLD (high-level resistant defence). GM can decide if the cahracter doesn't have high enough defences. If you don't, they don't apply. Damage: You Are Dead.

 

Personally, I'd call 70 rED 'high enough defences.' Anything less than that (or some other craziness to compensate), you die.

[Metaphysician]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

Thats the main reason *why* I don't like it: you can build characters that can walk on the sun, and yet be killed by a bullet to the back of the head.

[OddHat]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

Thats the main reason *why* I don't like it: you can build characters that can walk on the sun' date=' and yet be killed by a bullet to the back of the head.[/quote']

 

True, it is very Silver Age. Personally I don't mind it as a conciously invoked invulnerability power in the right kind of campaign; you see a fair number of supers that get smacked around by things that logically should have no chace of hurting (or touching) them, who then suddenly get serious and become invincible for a few pages. It also works well enough for Invulnerable To X powers, which are sometimes in genre.

 

If you do handle the surface of the Sun as a 25D6 RKA, you'll need a 750 RED to avoid any chance of taking stun, probably hardened if the Sun is seen as Penetrating or AP. Or you can play with Damage Reduction and Absorbtion combinations to cut the point cost a fair bit. You'll also need massive tunnelling and even higher defenses to swim around inside the Sun. It's possible, and you could run a 1500+ point game with player characters like this (more if you go for straight defenses rather than the DR + Absorbtion combo). You'll also need huge amounts of KB Resistance. The demands on the GM go up a bit as well, but that's par for the course whenever you move away from the published material.

[Lupus]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

Thats the main reason *why* I don't like it: you can build characters that can walk on the sun' date=' and yet be killed by a bullet to the back of the head.[/quote']

Can anyway. 5000rED, hardened x20, no resistant PD. Invulnerability powers just make it cheaper.

 

Same thing. It's up to the players and GM to make sure the character has the stats to reflect the powersense. In any case, it could make sense on occasion. You're playing FireDude, who is totally normal except for the fact that he absorbs all fire directed at him, without exception. So he's invulnerable to fire. Tada! He can withstand the heat of the sun (pressure and vacuum, 'nother story), but bullet to the head is enough to kill him.

 

It's Hero! It's all about allowing people to do what they want, 'cause it might make sense for some character. Or it's just plain what you want. GM and player discretion required.

[Misery Lad]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

Can anyway. 5000rED, hardened x20, no resistant PD. Invulnerability powers just make it cheaper.

 

Same thing. It's up to the players and GM to make sure the character has the stats to reflect the powersense. In any case, it could make sense on occasion. You're playing FireDude, who is totally normal except for the fact that he absorbs all fire directed at him, without exception. So he's invulnerable to fire. Tada! He can withstand the heat of the sun (pressure and vacuum, 'nother story), but bullet to the head is enough to kill him.

 

It's Hero! It's all about allowing people to do what they want, 'cause it might make sense for some character. Or it's just plain what you want. GM and player discretion required.

 

I think this and the earlier comment By OddHat go a long way toward summing up my indigenous feelings about the situation. Intellectually, I felt that, if I were to allow something like this (a fight on the surface of the sun) to occur, I would be Two-Stepping into the realm of allowing Stratospheric Punches and the like. It's all part and parcel of the Silver Age and that's a whole different era of comic convention than what I've been reffing.

 

However, the info on the whatfors behind the event have been extremely enlightening. I think, ultimately, with judicious common sense and an unblinking eye toward what best serves the drama of the story, this could be quite a *cool* event (heh).

 

The only things left to figure out would be the very real isue of retinal burnout from sheer visible light blindness. How much Flash Defense would a person need to stare across the sun? For that matter, given that the sun is a continuous nuclear reactor, throwing off vastly explosive forces every second on the second, how would a character manage to root himself relative to the surface in the first place? It's a big plasma ball, spitting out explosive force (and radiation pressure). Even with Flight, wouldn't characters be constantly slammed away by the energies exerted? This is assuming, of course, that the Desolidification route doesn't necessarily mean that the character is indeed ephemeral, but rather that he or she has the ability to shunt harmful energies around their bodies, like light bending around an object to render it invisible.

 

Not trying to beat a dead horse, here. I fully understand if everyone's tired of this thread. But if someone does happen to have a comment, I'll be quite happy to hear it.

 

Thanks everyone, for all of your input!

[Lupus]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

I think this and the earlier comment By OddHat go a long way toward summing up my indigenous feelings about the situation. Intellectually, I felt that, if I were to allow something like this (a fight on the surface of the sun) to occur, I would be Two-Stepping into the realm of allowing Stratospheric Punches and the like. It's all part and parcel of the Silver Age and that's a whole different era of comic convention than what I've been reffing.

 

However, the info on the whatfors behind the event have been extremely enlightening. I think, ultimately, with judicious common sense and an unblinking eye toward what best serves the drama of the story, this could be quite a *cool* event (heh).

 

The only things left to figure out would be the very real isue of retinal burnout from sheer visible light blindness. How much Flash Defense would a person need to stare across the sun? For that matter, given that the sun is a continuous nuclear reactor, throwing off vastly explosive forces every second on the second, how would a character manage to root himself relative to the surface in the first place? It's a big plasma ball, spitting out explosive force (and radiation pressure). Even with Flight, wouldn't characters be constantly slammed away by the energies exerted? This is assuming, of course, that the Desolidification route doesn't necessarily mean that the character is indeed ephemeral, but rather that he or she has the ability to shunt harmful energies around their bodies, like light bending around an object to render it invisible.

 

Not trying to beat a dead horse, here. I fully understand if everyone's tired of this thread. But if someone does happen to have a comment, I'll be quite happy to hear it.

 

Thanks everyone, for all of your input!

I fully understand that. In very few of my games would I allow that powerset. But I like that, in Hero, it's possible to build just about whatever you want. And I'd like the game to be able to support silver age silliness like standing on the sun and stratospheric punches, just as it supports Dark Champions street-level 'skilled normals'. You might have to go through a few kludges, because no system can natively support both extremes, but I'd rather it not be written off just because 'that's silly!'

 

YGMV.

[OddHat]

Re: Hot Enough For Ya?

 

The only things left to figure out would be the very real isue of retinal burnout from sheer visible light blindness. How much Flash Defense would a person need to stare across the sun? For that matter, given that the sun is a continuous nuclear reactor, throwing off vastly explosive forces every second on the second, how would a character manage to root himself relative to the surface in the first place? It's a big plasma ball, spitting out explosive force (and radiation pressure). Even with Flight, wouldn't characters be constantly slammed away by the energies exerted? This is assuming, of course, that the Desolidification route doesn't necessarily mean that the character is indeed ephemeral, but rather that he or she has the ability to shunt harmful energies around their bodies, like light bending around an object to render it invisible.

 

Not trying to beat a dead horse, here. I fully understand if everyone's tired of this thread. But if someone does happen to have a comment, I'll be quite happy to hear it.

 

Thanks everyone, for all of your input!

 

Desolidification solves the KB issue. If you assume that the sun is a 25d6 RKA, you'll need 128" of KB resistance to avoid any chance of being thrown off of the surface, or 134" to fly around over the surface. Tunnelling is probably the best way to get inside without Desolid; I'm not sure what kind of PD and Body the surface should have. Maybe 30 Def and Body per hex, as a complete WAG. Also as a complete WAG, I'd say that the Flash effect is probably at least 15d6 Penetrating, so call it 25+ of Hard Flash Def to stare into the Sun unharmed from the surface. You're probably better off just relying on Spatial Awareness or something if you plan to have a swim inside. Make sure to pack your Life Support.