Making Hitting Calcs Easier

[GaryB]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up before in another thread, as I couldn't find anything on it. But it seems to me, the method of hitting in HERO has been made just a tad over complicated than it needs to be.

 

The Old Method:

 

Target = (OCV + 11) - DCV, Roll Below Target on 3d6

 

This makes very little sense to have to roll lower for this, and have to turn around to roll higher on the next roll for effect. Not really all that bad, but inconsistant.

 

New Method

 

Target = DCV + 11, Roll 3d6 + OCV and roll over Target Number

 

More consistant with wanting to roll higher on every roll than rolling lower on one, and higher on the next roll.

 

Now. I have written a program to test the hit/miss ratio on the same die roll on the old and new system. I will admit there are times when the Old System hits better when all things are even (OCV & DCV), but strangely enough, the New Method will even out more consistantly over time (50% hits and and misses).

 

10 Passes of 100 Rolls (Even CV's) (Hits/Misses)

 

Pass 1: Old 56/44 New 54/46

Pass 2: Old 61/39 New 48/52

Pass 3: Old 69/31 New 45/55

Pass 4: Old 69/31 New 46/54

Pass 5: Old 65/35 New 44/56

Pass 6: Old 59/41 New 50/50

Pass 7: Old 62/38 New 56/44

Pass 8: Old 61/39 New 53/47

Pass 9: Old 58/42 New 51/49

Pass 10: Old 74/26 New 40/60

 

What I have noticed, because the process is essentially reversed. That when the Old system hits alot, the new system misses alot. But even from these 10 passes of the program you can see the new system has a better ratio of hit/misses (closer to 50%).

 

Now this still works with such things as Autofire which require a certain amount of points rolled under the target in the old system. The same still stands with the new system. On average, in an even CV test you will hit or miss by 2 or 3. However, where the Old system may miss by 3, the new system would hit by 3 on the same roll.

 

As far as uneven tests, higher DCV and OCV both systems keep near to the same amount of hit/misses.

 

What this would mean in the end, is that you are adding 11 to DCV to create an overall target number.

 

I would like comments, suggestions and perhaps some live tests if people are willing to try it in their games.

[Herolover]

Re: Making Hitting Calcs Easier

 

I played with a similiar idea. I always liked the idea that that you always wanted to roll high or always wanted to roll low.

 

However, I have found my current method to be perfect. The player takes their OCV adds 11 and then subtracts their roll.

OCV +11 minus roll.

 

This way all the player has to do is tell me what DCV they hit.

[Fitz]

Re: Making Hitting Calcs Easier

 

If you make it DCV + 10, and the target number equal to or above, then you get exactly the same results but it's easier to interpret -- all you have to do is roll your dice, add your OCV, and drop 10 to get the DCV you've hit. For example, if your total is 21, you hit DCV 11. If it's 15, you hit DCV 5, and so on.

 

By the way, if you do a search of the boards you'll find that all of this has been extensively discussed before; it might be worth your while reading through it all.

[GaryB]

Re: Making Hitting Calcs Easier

 

If you make it DCV + 10, and the target number equal to or above, then you get exactly the same results but it's easier to interpret -- all you have to do is roll your dice, add your OCV, and drop 10 to get the DCV you've hit. For example, if your total is 21, you hit DCV 11. If it's 15, you hit DCV 5, and so on.

 

By the way, if you do a search of the boards you'll find that all of this has been extensively discussed before; it might be worth your while reading through it all.

 

I did do a search, but didn't come up with any directly on this subject.

 

The problem I see above is that you are still jostling numbers back and forth. Add something here, then subtract another number here. Lends to over complication again.

 

I played with a similiar idea. I always liked the idea that that you always wanted to roll high or always wanted to roll low.

 

However, I have found my current method to be perfect. The player takes their OCV adds 11 and then subtracts their roll.

OCV +11 minus roll.

 

This way all the player has to do is tell me what DCV they hit.

 

This is suggested in the 5th ED book in the combat section. We've tried to use it, but confuses my players who are new to the game even more than the normal system. And it still lends to adding here, subtracting here during the process of the roll.

 

 

In the system I suggested, all rolls are straight forward. Adding only during the roll. The player who rolls to hit, adds OCV to 3d6 to overcome DCV + 11.

 

However, with the program I created. I am finding that DCV+10 provides a better array of results. This gives the new system a chance to roll really good every once in a while (this is where the old system rolled really bad, and vice versa).

 

I think I may try this on my next game session this week. To me, going in one direction with the roll's math seems to work better than going back and forth with the math.

 

NOTE: I'm not talking about DCV and OCV modifiers which are considered before the roll is made, just the math in the roll itself.

 

Thank you for taking the time to read this mess.

[sbarron]

Re: Making Hitting Calcs Easier

 

What I have noticed' date=' because the process is essentially reversed. That when the Old system hits alot, the new system misses alot. But even from these 10 passes of the program you can see the new system has a better ratio of hit/misses (closer to 50%).[/quote']The system now is designed so that on average, character succeed more than they fail (11- = 62.5%). I think this is intended to move the game along quicker by giving attackers a slight advantage, and to make skill rolls easier to make, as that's more heroic.

 

So in this case, nearer 50% is not better.

 

As Fitz points out, if you make it DCV +10, you then get the same 62.5% by needed to roll 10 or higher to succeed.

[GaryB]

Re: Making Hitting Calcs Easier

 

True, which is why I made the change DCV +10 in the new system. But this method lends to having math go one way and making the higher roll count. Now on 10,000 rolls on an average of about 60-65% hit ratio on even CV's.