A question of size

[schir1964]

Re: A question of size

 

Characters with growth don't take minuses to hit normal-sized characters but normal-sized characters take minuses to hit characters with shrinking. And characters with shrinking don't get plusses to hit normal-sized characters but normal-sized characters get plusses to hit characters with growth. I think the whole size thing is too complicated to figure out.

MitchellS,

 

I have document that discusses the whole size issue. It includes a more universal rule for handling combat penalties/bonuses due to size. That specific rule is somewhat simpler too.

 

Again, if anyone would like to have it, just email me at schir1964 @ netzero.com and I'll email it to you in whatever format you can handle.

 

- Christopher Mullins

[Sean Waters]

Re: A question of size

 

RealLemming,

 

You ever see the movie "The Mask Of Zorro"?

Sounds like you are talking about a fight similar to the one in this movie where Zorro ends up fighting someone who is twice his size.

Basically, Zorro could hit the larger fellow fine, but couldn't seem to do any damage, until he picked up a couple of cannon balls and hit him multiple times in the head.

 

So I don't think the penalty to hit is representing just misses, it may include hits that have no effect. Just to look at it from more of SFX view than a game mechanics view.

 

Just My Humble Opinion

 

- Christopher Mullins

 

 

Ever seen a boxing match? Reach matters.

 

Y'see this is always something we'll run into 'cinematic reality' where the small, quick guy always wins, and actual reality where the big tough guy always wins (unless the small, quick guy is Bruce Lee, in which case, no contest: Bruce is already dead.

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: A question of size

 

Magnitude Man and Size Queen are fighting HTH. They both have the same Multipower with Growth and Shrinking slots. They have the same DEX, and the same CV, and no ranged attacks.

 

At normal size, they hit each other on 11-.

They shrink down to 1 cm high. Now, even though they're standing close up face to face, they only hit each other on a 3.

Then they grow to 100 m tall. Now they never miss each other, except on an 18.

 

This makes no sense.

 

Later, Size Queen is on her own and shrinks down to 1 cm. She is attacked by an ordinary cockroach. Since the cockroach doesn't have Shrinking (it's small all the time), does it not get a DCV bonus? If not, SQ hits the roach normally, but the roach can't hit SQ (except on a 3). If it does get the DCV bonus, they have a very hard time hitting each other. The same would hold true for a battle between two roaches or other small critters. Yet, ITRW, small critters like bugs and bacteria fight each other all the time.

 

As much as I dislike D20, I think they handled this correctly. Each +1 DCV for size should be balanced by a +1 OCV, so that equal opponents of the same size always hit each other on 11-, regardless of what size that is.

[nexus]

Re: A question of size

 

I compare the Growth or Shrinking values. Someone with 10 levels of Growth being attacked by someone with 5 gets DCV penalties for 5 Levels. If they both have 10 they hit each other normally. Seems to work as a rule of thumb.

[nexus]

Re: A question of size

 

With names like Magnitude Man and Size Queen they shouldn't be fighting, they should be dating.

 

[Sean Waters]

Re: A question of size

 

Magnitude Man and Size Queen are fighting HTH. They both have the same Multipower with Growth and Shrinking slots. They have the same DEX, and the same CV, and no ranged attacks.

 

At normal size, they hit each other on 11-.

They shrink down to 1 cm high. Now, even though they're standing close up face to face, they only hit each other on a 3.

Then they grow to 100 m tall. Now they never miss each other, except on an 18.

 

This makes no sense.

 

Later, Size Queen is on her own and shrinks down to 1 cm. She is attacked by an ordinary cockroach. Since the cockroach doesn't have Shrinking (it's small all the time), does it not get a DCV bonus? If not, SQ hits the roach normally, but the roach can't hit SQ (except on a 3). If it does get the DCV bonus, they have a very hard time hitting each other. The same would hold true for a battle between two roaches or other small critters. Yet, ITRW, small critters like bugs and bacteria fight each other all the time.

 

As much as I dislike D20, I think they handled this correctly. Each +1 DCV for size should be balanced by a +1 OCV, so that equal opponents of the same size always hit each other on 11-, regardless of what size that is.

 

Good examples: as a matter of practice I tend to do what Nexus does and only worry about the relative sizes, but that has the disadvantage that you then have relative DCV: different DCV depending on who is attacking you.

 

The d20 solution works well to address that problem, but +1 OCV/+1DCV per size drop and -1OCV/-1DCV per size increase would have far more dramatic effects in a system that uses a bell curve mechanic like Hero.

 

On the raoch point, whoever built the roach should have increased the DCV to an appropriate point to reflect the DCV for something that size, but that brings me onto my meta-point: hitting a roach is not hard. Hitting something that size is not hard, even though, proportionally it is moving far faster than a full sized human you stamp on the blighter easily enough, so in my book it does not have a high DCV, at least not against HtH attacks from normal human sized opponents.

 

I continue to fail to understand why being small is considered an advantage in HtH combat. Anyone?

[PhilFleischmann]

Re: A question of size

 

The d20 solution works well to address that problem' date=' but +1 OCV/+1DCV per size drop and -1OCV/-1DCV per size increase would have far more dramatic effects in a system that uses a bell curve mechanic like Hero.[/quote']

It depends on where in the bell curve you're talking about.

 

Two equal opponents hit each other on 11-.

If one has +2 DCV, one hits on 11-, and the other on 9-, a difference of 2.

If one has +1 DCV and +1 OCV, then one hits on 10-, and the other on 12-, also a difference of 2.

 

And yes, a difference of 2 can be more dramatic or less dramatic on a bell curve. With a straight d20 the effects are the same regardless of the position on the "curve".

 

I came up with another radical and blasphemous idea regarding the bell curve, which I will start another thread about soon. Basically, the idea is to increase the granularity of the bell curve by rolling 3d12 instead of 3d6. The curve is exactly the same shape, but there is more room for fine tuning. The difference between 10- (50%) and 11- (62.5%) is 12.5 % on 3d6. With 3d12, the difference between 19- (50%) and 20- (56% IIRC) is only 6%.