How to do the "wedge the monster's mouth open" schtick?

[Arthur]

Originally posted by NuSoardGraphite

Don't forget that DCV penalties can not lower a creature or vehicles DCV below Zero, no matter how many penalties there are.

 

And the hit location modifier is to the attackers OCV, and has nothing to do with the defenders DCV, so that doesn't figure in.

 

Then that's something with the system that should be addressed. Being large should be figured as a bonus to be hit, since there really should be no limit. Right now (unless I did it wrong), the more nimble a giant is, the more his size can count against him. Huh? How's that?

 

Good points there, BTW. I didn't realize that.

[Shaun Hendricks]

No Snake pics here... (Sorry)

 

At any rate...

 

"Combat Effects" like this are fairly easy. We all get into trouble if we try to work out the exact mechanics of it in the game terms. One persons 2 hex snake is anothers 'monster of horrific' proportions as the previous conversations have so eloquently demonstrated. Best thing to do as a GM is just determine Difficulty of the maneuver. Personally I would've given a -10OCV to the maneuver (regardless of size problems, I'm assuming the proportions are right) because it's a -8 to hit the head and I'm giving another -2 to 'wedge' the stick in and time it with the creatures bite. However, factor growth pluses to hit in and the creature basically aiming right at the character and being too dumb to avoid the trap, I give the Hero about a +5 for creativity and the preceding reasons. For the creatures part, it really just has to make an INT check to open it's mouth a little wider and let the stick fall out. Even a Dog figures this out given time, you know this if you've ever seen one with a tennis ball rammed half way down it's mouth (which over zealous ones tend to have happen in an enthusiastic game of 'fetch'). So realistically, it only gives the Heroes a few phases to down the beast. In "Jedi" the particular creature had more muscles than brains so it just took the only way out it could figure, crush the bone in it's jaws (something it was likley familiar with anyway).

 

Perhaps, since we are talking movies, the best example of this 'Mexican Stand off' (apologies to any Hispanics, it's the only term I can think of to describe it) is represented in the movie "Dragonheart" with the knight and the Dragon at odds over a precarious bit of dental working.

 

Food for thought...

[Markdoc]

The to hit modifiers are FOR SIZE - not BODY PART.

 

So, to hit a normal human (human sized, yes?) -0. To hit the head of a normal human (about 1/6th of a human size), -8 (yeah, I know, it should be -6). To hit the mouth (about 1/30th of human size, say) -12.

 

But to hit the mouth of a Rancor (about half human size, IIRC) -2.

 

A few extra modifiers to reflect a natural reuctance to stick your arm inside a big maw filled with spiky teeth, might well be in order as well as the dangling-upside-down-being-held-by-one-leg modifier, but otherwise.....

 

As for the giant DCV thing, even being really nimble isn't going to help much if you are the size of a bus - and the OCV penalty for hitting the head of something the size of a bus, is not going to be that great (unless it's one of those really big dinosaurs, with the teeny-tiny heads, of course). Of course that's a problem for giants, who will now have all attacks aimed at head or groin. Hmmm.....

[Shaun Hendricks]

Originally posted by Markdoc

The to hit modifiers are FOR SIZE - not BODY PART.

 

So, to hit a normal human (human sized, yes?) -0. To hit the head of a normal human (about 1/6th of a human size), -8 (yeah, I know, it should be -6). To hit the mouth (about 1/30th of human size, say) -12.

 

But to hit the mouth of a Rancor (about half human size, IIRC) -2.

[/Quote]

 

Well, that would be an interpretation of it. If we wanted to get super technical we could whip out the chart for a snake, (head and uh, body: big chart there). I usually like to start at human norms and modify from there. Thus the -8 for a head shot, (body part irrespective, it's what you are trying to hit) and then factoring in growth, etc. Now, in the case of a snake, they almost double the size of their heads in a strike (assuming a fanged snake) and thus I don't go to the -12 extent you are. So, again, I stick with the -8 as a starting point. Then apply the growth 'to hit' bonuses as well as factoring in what I previously said for an overall bonus of +5. Which comes back to a -3 OCV total. Sounds about fair to me. Any larger of a minus and a player won't commit to the attack, which I would feel would make for interesting play. How we arrive at the figures is mostly irrelevant, so long as the end product is what you want to achieve. If, as a GM, you want a larger negative, you can justify it with whatever you desire. This is all semantics anyway.

 

A few extra modifiers to reflect a natural reuctance to stick your arm inside a big maw filled with spiky teeth, might well be in order as well as the dangling-upside-down-being-held-by-one-leg modifier, but otherwise.....

 

I wouldn't make this assumption. If you assume that the characters are trained fighters, and a presence attack is not being made by the snake, there should be no 'natural reluctance' to anything in my opinion. The default should be that it's nothing more than an unorthodox combat maneuver that a trained character would think of and be able to pull off. Now, if the character had disads like a lack of confidence or was a rookie/inexperienced, then I'd agree with applying an additional negative to an unorthodox maneuver, otherwise, I'd chalk it up to improvisation that experienced fighters are capable of.

 

As for the giant DCV thing, even being really nimble isn't going to help much if you are the size of a bus - and the OCV penalty for hitting the head of something the size of a bus, is not going to be that great (unless it's one of those really big dinosaurs, with the teeny-tiny heads, of course). Of course that's a problem for giants, who will now have all attacks aimed at head or groin. Hmmm.....

 

Growth negatives implicitly deal with this bit of math. The CV mods are all there under Growth. You don't need to go overboard with the exactness of the numbers. It slows down combat and doesn't really add much to the game. Get it close enough and let the dice fly. If a player really objects and wants to get too anal about the numbers then we'll calculate them out, but the player shouldn't be surprised when their creativity bonus suddenly vaporizes for making a pain in the tush of themselves...

 

This is all my opinion, your playstyle may vary...