Arthur

Re: Ye Old "Hero is Hard" Debate I think several folks here have hit the nail on the head. Hero is a great system - for gamers of a certain temperament. The math is not hard, nor particularly abundant, to me - but I got my degree in physics. To me, doing that math is FUN. I am an anomaly (more accurately, part of a small anomalous group). When I tried introducing Hero to many of my gamer friends, most of them balked. Not because they COULDN'T do the math, but because they didn't find it FUN. They complained that it was like doing homework. To someone who struggled through elementary algebra, Hero is painful. Hero is a little like Linux. Those of us that like Hero (or Linux) are typically the types who want to take things apart and see what makes them go. Note that Windows still has a 98% market share on the desktop. Most people (and by extension, most gamers) don't WANT to know what video chipset they are using, the refresh rate of their monitor, etc. The machine is a black box, and they are not inclined to open the case. They just want Diablo 2 to run. I have a set of Hero books, but could never really find anyone to game with in this city. At cons, the D&D game was jam-packed (I counted over ten people in one game), while I would be in the corner with my rulebooks all alone. Occasionally, someone would come by and talk about the game, but not actually PLAY (had the same problem with GURPS).

Re: Your Gaming Group's Jargon The "rock" is something that started in a RPG group I played in c. 1979 - in Merced. About 60 miles north of Fresno. Ever play with Dave Fitzgerald or any of his group? I coined it first, IIRC. It's a reference to the Charlie Brown Halloween special. Every stop, it was something like this: Lucy: "I got a candied apple!" Linus: "I got a chocolate bar!" Charlie Brown: "I got a rock" We had a variant system where we would roll for initiative every turn, with high numbers going first. We would all announce our rolls: "I got a seventeen!" "I got a twelve!" [Looking at my d20 which rolled a 1] "I got a rock" Brings back memories. This isn't exactly a "phrase", but we also started the practice of putting one's hand on one's face (thumb on the nose, index finger on forehead) to indicate that whatever was said was "out of character". It started as "thumbing one's nose" with the fingers wiggling, but settled down to the more static version. I saw the same thing done in a game 5 years later and 300 miles away. I always wondered if that filtered into the gaming community after we started it. Yes, I'm old.

Re: Character Creation Example? Very well presented, Mono. That's the process I follow, too. I have little to add; just the caveat for new players that labels like "Brick" or "Martial Artist" are just GUIDELINES, not "character classes" in any sense whatsoever. When transitioning from other systems, some players have a hard time abandoning the idea of "character classes". Remember, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with mixing types or not using types at all. Not using archetypes at all may make it difficult to justify a coherent characer concept. However, what do near-brick-level strength, superleap, clinging, danger sense, martial arts, swinging, and an entangle attack have in common? Ask Spider-Man! I played in a Champions game many years ago with a GM who was used to character-classes. I envisioned an extremely strong character with high normal defenses, low resistant defenses, and regen. He'd gotten his powers from super-steroids, so I could justlfy only small amounts of resistant defenses from "dense muscles". However, steroids boost your recuperative powers immensely, hence the regeneration. However, the GM disallowed it. "Bricks don't have regen. They have high defenses". I played a few times, but he was too clueless a GM. I wanted to beat him over the head with a BBB. Hope this helped.

Re: Looking for HERO stats for: "Bullseye" I dislike this approach. Bullseye is just highly skilled and talented. High DEX and lots of CSLs. Don't overcomplicate it! Bullseye never missed for a long time because he was throwing things at normal folks. What's a normal going to have for a DCV? Seven? Maybe eight? Give him DEX 23 and seven CSLs with thrown objects, and you're at OCV 15 vs. DCV 8. He hits on a 18. Call any to-hit of 21+ an automatic hit and he could go a looong time without missing anyone. Now, along comes Daredevil. DD is, say, DEX 29 and has Martial Dodge. He also has a high enough SPD to use Martial Dodge without killing his offense. Add a few DCV CSLs for DD, and suddenly Bullseye is up against someone who can reduce his to-hit to 8 or so. Superheroes can do that to him. Normals can't.

Re: Agent combat.... This came up on these boards years ago. Someone (no way I can remember the name) told of a situation when he had some Special Forces friends in town. I'll paraphrase from memory as best I can: " I had a session planned that night in my Champions game. It was an attack by some agents on the Superhero HQ. It was supposed to be an easy battle for the PCs, just to let them know some outfit was gunning for them. I invited the Special Forces guys to guest-run the agents. I never saw the PC heroes get thumped so fast and so thoroughly. The SF guys used their tactical training. They opened up with a grenade barrage from cover..." Anyway, agents being run by real tactical experts totally waxed the superheroes. You can't always get those types to run your agents. However, it's always rough for the GM, who has to run many characters, while each player runs only one. If you happen to have players sitting around who aren't involved in the combat, let them take control of some of the agents!! I've done this many times, in many games. It gives the idle players something to do, AND lessens the GM burden. You have to have good players, of course, but when it works it's great.

Re: Open or hidden dice Hidden. For the reasons others have enumerated. I especially like the factor someone mentioned where it prevents players from knowing the exact power level of their opposition. Another cute trick I use occasionally is to roll something like 4 white dice and 8 blue dice all together, then count only the white dice. [clatter-rumble-clatter] "That's 12 STN and 4 BODY!". However, I never fudge a dice roll in a "serious" game. They are there to represent the vagaries of fate. It defeats the purpose of rolling dice if the GM intervenes and changes values. If a GM wants to "cheat", there are far better ways than fudging dice rolls. It's better to make sure that the opposition is either balanced against the PCs (err on the low side) or doesn't really want to kill them (the evil mastermind wants to capture and convert them). If a PC dies anyway, but was played well, I give the player huge bonusses to their next character. A consolation prize. I seriously dislike "life-is-cheap" RPGs anyway. The player characters should usually be up against inferior opposition - that fits the feel of most heroic fiction.

Re: mind control levels "Foxbot"? I realize this is a typo, but you may have just hit on an entire addition to the Champions Universe, inadvertantly. Foxbots!! Robot duplicates of Foxbat!! That's a dozen plotlines just waiting to be written...

Re: How Many Points? None. A base that costs points is sort of like a Focus: it means that it is totally under the character(s)' control - at least most of the time. Paying points for a GM-created plot device (which this sounds like) doesn't make much sense to me.

Re: STONELOCK- Character For Review Looked good up until the Teleport part. Nothing wrong with it, per se. It's just a very odd combination of powers. It's not against the rules or anything. A slightly more serious problem appears to be the lack of any Life Support Powers. Shouldn't a stone form have some Life Support? Does he breathe in stone form? Can he be poisoned or contract disease? My recommendation: lose the Teleport and use those points to buy some OHID Life Support. My $0.02. Take it for what it's worth.

Re: PBEM:The New Universe Oh, so you want a 50+50 NORMAL character, then YOU add the Powers? Hmmm. Interesting, in a way, but I've always seen character design as a major part of the game. Not sure if I like the idea of someone else designing my PC. Do you give the finished product to the player for review and/or comment?

Re: PBEM:The New Universe Hard to believe there wasn't at least a subconscious memory of said series, since it was triggered by a (and I quote verbatim from Marvel's New Universe) "White Event". I liked NU a lot. When it failed, it was the beginning of the end of my comic-collecting days (which started in 1971). After that, all the standard "costumed adventurer" stuff just looked sillier and sillier. Then I discovered the "Wild Cards" series...

Re: PBEM:The New Universe Did you ever read the "Realistic Supers" article in Digital Hero #11? That addresses some of the implications of this style of gaming. It is my favorite genre by far. Which is why I wrote said article... Still taking characters? 50+50 is even lower than what I recommended (and I thought mine would be too low for most players). Do you allow things like Weapon Familiarities to use mundane weapons? That is, would there be a point cost for ordinary guns and knives?

Re: Megascale Combat I see you and I think alike (see my post a little later on in this thread, which was derived from an earlier thread). I'll leave it to your discretion whether to feel flattered or insulted. However, on average, it will leave any character at exactly 0 BODY, since BODY+DEF Normal dice will average BODY+DEF in BODY damage. So, without a very good BODY damage roll, the character in question will be alive. That's why I went with 2xBODY. However, either way is good.

Re: Megascale Combat This came up on the thread "Cheese Check" (where I inquired about using Megascale in a MP slot). This is my take on how a Megascale Move-x combat maneuver should be handled: The most damage allowed should be something like (total PD + 2xBODY) in DC. This would obliterate whatever is doing the Move Through. Thus, if you have a total PD of 20 and 10 BODY, you could do a maximum of 40d, killing yourself. Amend that to "possibly killing yourself", since a less-than-average BODY roll would leave the character alive. Furthermore, when I wrote the above, I didn't consider Damage Reduction. Anyway, that's the general idea. It's sort of like hitting something with a fragile weapon. No matter how strong you are, a broomstick isn't going to do more than its (DEF+BODY) in DC before it shatters.

Re: Cheese Check This is similar to trying to do a lot of damage with a fragile object. The object would break, limiting the amount of damage you could do. IIRC, Hero already has rules that an object can only do DEF+BODY DC of damage. If not, it should (maybe with special rules for items that are actually designed as weapons - their DEF would be doubled for this purpose, let's say). Anyway, applying this to the subject at hand. Yeah, maybe you could do a Move-Through at Megascale. You'd be hard pressed to hit anything smaller than a mountain range, but without the DEF+BODY limit, it'd be like setting off a nuke. The most damage allowed should be something like (total PD + 2xBODY) in DC. This would obliterate whatever is doing the Move Through. Thus, if you have a total PD of 20 and 10 BODY, you could do a maximum of 40d, killing yourself. And on a final note: why exactly did Kamikaze pilots wear helmets?

I was designing a character with fast flight. My first approach was: 34 17" Flight 20 x32 NonCombat My second approach was: 35 Multipower 3 u 17" Flight 3 u 11' Flight (+1/2: Megascale). The first slot allows for NC movement at 34" per phase. At SPD 6, that would be 34 m/s. The second slot works out to 55,000 m/s; about Mach 160 or so. Now, is this considered abusive? Or is it just a typical application for Megascale?

Re: The Master List of Limitations Yeah, that's a phenomenal site. How about a DL-able HTML version that retains the links? It'd be nice to have all that info on a non-networked laptop. If it's not too much trouble.

Re: Manuver question as brain short circuts Maneuver modifiers last until the character's next action. Usually, that's his next phase, unless he aborts. Now, there are common-sense exceptions. For instance, a PC is SPD 4. He Dodges on Segment 6. Normally, his DCV modifiers last until Segment 9. However, if he is Knocked Out or CON-Stunned on Segment 8, those modifiers take priority.

Re: Science of Superheroes [quote=Andrew_A For an idea of how to build superheroes using modified science check out Wild Cards volume 1. Maybe. I am a HUGE fan of the Wild Cards series. It's my favorite set of stories. At first, I was really impressed with that "everything is psi-based" explanation. Now I'm not so sure it's all that much of an improvement. All they really did was use the same rubber-science buzzword for all powers. It doesn't really link to anything in the real world (Dr. Rhine notwithstanding). Think of it this way: if you took the word "psi" and replaced it with the word "witchcraft" or "balonium", would it really make any difference in terms of a real-world explanation? Introducing one fictional concept to explain many fictional concepts doesn't really accomplish much, now does it? However, as I said, I LOVED the Wild Cards books. Still do. If I could stay in one place long enough to justify a fiction collection again, it would be on top of my list.

Re: Regeneration I see where I went wrong. I was thinking that Regen was based on Simplified Healing, when it is instead based on Healing BODY. That means the "Standard Effect" of 3 on a die should be 1.5 BODY, and there should be a Lim of -1/2 for that. I also note that you're supposed to get an additional -1/4 for each step slower than 1 Turn above and beyond the Extra Time. I guess that's a nod in the direction I was thinking of, since my way is +1/4 less of Advantages for each step slower. Still too cheap, IMO, and no reason to hand-wave the "once per day" rule on Healing. If you're going to do that, it's easier to just make Regen a separate Power once again. It has been for 20 years, why change it now? "If it ain't broke, wait'll I get done with it".

Re: Regeneration Doh! I knew I was missing something. This is what I get for doing things from my poor memory. Anyway, BODY Only should still be a Limitation.

Re: Normal Characteristic Maxima... And Movement... That would make buying high STR and DEX even MORE cost-effective than it is now! Yikes. It would make virtually every character STR 18+ and DEX 20+. That's a lot of STUN for a Heroic Campaign. Hell, that's a lot of STUN for a superhero... That is a weird effect of the Speed Chart. If two characters are both travelling at the same total velocity, the one with the lower SPD does more damage from the Move-x maneuvers! Peculiar. This can be an issue when trying to model real-world effects. Vehicles, for instance. One solution is to pick a "Campaign SPD". Then "Effective Move" would be (Move per Phase * Character SPD / Campaign SPD). For instance, if the Campaign SPD is set at 4, then a character with Move 20" and SPD 6 would have an Effective Move of 30" for impact purposes. This can get complicated as a character may not always be travelling his maximum Move, and it would have to be figured on the fly (no pun intended). I think it's easy (pocket calculators, anyone?), but some don't like doing arithmetic.

Re: Opinion poll There should be a bonus to damage, with a limit of (DEF+BODY)d6. If you look at the stats for clubs, they do more than ((STR Min)/5)d6, as they should. Therefore, they do more damage than bare hands (duh). The larger the club, the more efficient it is at increasing damage. Again, pretty logical. That doesn't lend itself well to a general rule for improvised clubs, however. What do we do? Come up with a STR Min and damage rating for every possible item? This has to be done on the fly. I would say in most superheroic games, an improvised club would do anywhere from +2d to +4d N. As someone pointed out, a lot of items wouldn't have that high of a DEF+BODY, and that would limit their maximum. However, you can't count on that happening every time. What if it the item is a steel girder? What if it's part of a supervillain's lair in construction, and the girder is made of that indestructible wonder metal - balonium? Is it unbalancing because STR is already too good for its points? Yeah. However, the cost of STR wasn't set at x2 (or at least x1.5) like it should have been - that's no reason to ignore realism AND genre conventions.

Re: Regeneration I followed you right up to "if you work the math...". Now, if Standard Effect is 1.5 BODY, but we call it 1 BODY, then that should be an additional Limitation. Sounds like a clear-cut -1/2 Limitation. Adding in the "Constant" thing, and we are approaching Ludicrous Complexity. I think we may be adding fuel to the "Regeneration should be a separate Power" argument. I still think that would be a good idea. I liked the Fuzion notion of bumping up the Time Increment for the regular REC of BODY per month. The only difficulty is in trying to finagle exactly 1 BODY per Turn. I think it should be 3 points per +1 increment, with Advantages for "Regrow Limbs" and "Resurrection"

The way Regen is handled now has a few aspects that I don't care for: 1. Ordinarily, Healing can only be applied to one person once per day. To increase that one step on the Time Chart is a +1/4 Advantage. Why should Regen be an exception? There's no reason I've heard for this that rings true. 2. It's just plain Too Cheap. Regen 1 BODY per Turn for 7 points? It used to be 10 points in earlier editions. If anything, the transition from Silver Age to Iron Age sensibilities that most games have gone through should make Regen MORE valuable, not less! Not to mention the introduction of genres like Fantasy Hero. 3. On a related note, if I DO have a character concept with something like "Regen 1 BODY per hour", it's hard to stick to. The point savings are so small, it's all too easy to decide "OK, my character concept really calls for 1 per Turn". It's just a small change in concept, right? 4. Shouldn't there be a Limitation for "BODY Only"? Healing normally restores STUN and BODY. Not restoring 3 STUN is definitely worse than restoring 3 STUN. I'd call it a -1/2 Limitation. SOLUTION: Remove the Time Chart exception! That resolves all the issues neatly in one swell foop. Optionally, add in point 4. Some examples using the new rules: Regeneration 1 BODY per Turn: Healing 1d. Fixed Effect. Persistent 0 END (+1); Reset Time 1 Turn (+1.5); Extra Time 1 Turn (-1.25); Self Only (-0.5); BODY Only (-0.5). Active Cost: 35. Real Cost: 11. Regeneration 1 BODY per 5 Minutes with Regrow Limbs Adder: Healing 1d plus Limbs. Fixed Effect. Persistent 0 END (+1); Reset Time 5 min (+1); Extra Time 5 min (-2); Self Only (-0.5); BODY Only (-0.5). Active Cost: 45. Real Cost: 11. Regeneration 1 BODY per hour: Healing 1d. Fixed Effect. Persistent 0 END (+1); Reset Time 1 Hour (+0.5); Extra Time 1 Turn (-3); Self Only (-0.5); BODY Only (-0.5). Active Cost: 25. Real Cost: 5.