Magic Question #2

[Kortay Mirlor]

Hi all! I've got another one. Simple this time (I hope).

 

I like the "Gate" Lim to Teleport idea from the rules book, but I want to make one change.

 

How would you handle a Gate that's opaque. It works like a "normal" Gate (go thru both ways, can Ranged Attack thru, etc.), but you can't see thru it (or hear either but that's not so important).

 

Is this IPE? Custom Limitation? Less valuable Gate Lim? Linked Darkness?

 

Help appreciated.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

Probably an extra -0 Limitation (or +0 Advantage, take your pick ). It is disadvantageous to you and your allies, but also to your enemies.

 

If that doesn't appeal, I suppose Linked Darkness would work just fine. It just seems like overkill to me.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

+10 Adder Opaque to Sense Group.

[Cantriped]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

I'd say IPE is better in this case. since Opaque indicates that you can't see anything on the other side of the Gate physically, such as if you set up a vase on a pillar the opened that gate in front of it, the vase would be hidden.

IPE on the other hand indicates by it's very name that you don't "see" the effects of the power in question, which is to "open a Gate"

[Basil]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

Probably an extra -0 Limitation (or +0 Advantage' date=' take your pick ). It is disadvantageous to you and your allies, but also to your enemies.[/quote']

I think this is the best way to do it. Even better, IMO: If the Gate can't be seen thru from the caster's side, increase the Lim bonus by a further -1/4. If the Gate can't be seen through from the other side, reduce the Lim bonus by 1/4. If both are true, apply both, giving the Gate Lim a total change of ±0

 

If that doesn't appeal' date=' I suppose Linked Darkness would work just fine. It just seems like overkill to me.[/quote']

Got to agree; too complicated for what you need.

[Basil]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

+10 Adder Opaque to Sense Group.

An Adder to a Limitation?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

I'd say IPE is better in this case. since Opaque indicates that you can't see anything on the other side of the Gate physically, such as if you set up a vase on a pillar the opened that gate in front of it, the vase would be hidden.

IPE on the other hand indicates by it's very name that you don't "see" the effects of the power in question, which is to "open a Gate"

I take from the way the question was worded that its not a case of not seing the gate, its a case of not being able to see through the gate. In which case the Opaque Adder of Force Wall and Entangle provides a perfect parrallel.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

An Adder to a Limitation?

An Adder to the base Power, obviously.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

+10 Adder Opaque to Sense Group.

That could work I suppose. I'm just not sure it's that much of an advantage in this case. The main function of Teleport, even a Gate, is transportation, and not being able to see where you're going isn't that advantageous unless you can convince an enemy to step through it blindly. :shrug:

 

I suppose you can't be attacked through it (well) as you flee or prepare, but then likely you can't attack your enemies likewise. If you had an unusual Targetting Sense I suppose you could use it to your advantage, but then I'd say it has to be pretty much an all-or-nothing thing. Either you can perceive through it with normal Senses, or you can't at all (with Targetting Senses?). For that matter I suppose you could make it a shimmery wavey thing that you can see through very vaguely with Sight, but effectively can't get the benefit of Sight being Targetting through it.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

That could work I suppose. I'm just not sure it's that much of an advantage in this case. The main function of Teleport, even a Gate, is transportation, and not being able to see where you're going isn't that advantageous unless you can convince an enemy to step through it blindly. :shrug:

 

I suppose you can't be attacked through it (well) as you flee or prepare, but then likely you can't attack your enemies likewise. If you had an unusual Targetting Sense I suppose you could use it to your advantage, but then I'd say it has to be pretty much an all-or-nothing thing. Either you can perceive through it with normal Senses, or you can't at all (with Targetting Senses?). For that matter I suppose you could make it a shimmery wavey thing that you can see through very vaguely with Sight, but effectively can't get the benefit of Sight being Targetting through it.

 

 

But you have to consider that it also blocks sight thru it for other purposes, just like a darkness or opaque force wall / barrier, or a normal wall. It's an AoE that blocks LOS and thus it should cost extra even if that is not the main purpose of the ability.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

But you have to consider that it also blocks sight thru it for other purposes' date=' just like a darkness or opaque force wall / barrier, or a normal wall. It's an AoE that blocks LOS and thus it should cost extra even if that is not the main purpose of the ability.[/quote']

But the barrier or Darkness can be placed in convenient locations just for blocking sight (or for blocking sight and protection). Also, often if you want to protect yourself (especially with a FW or Entangle where you usually can't fire back) it is also going to be a benefit to block line-of-sight. For an Entangle it is beneficial to block the senses of the person you trap (and maybe their allies too, so no one knows to break them out). But with Teleport, blocking sight to the place you want to travel to...? That doesn't sound like much of an advantage to me. Not like the others.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

But the barrier or Darkness can be placed in convenient locations just for blocking sight (or for blocking sight and protection).

And a Gate that also acts as a screen such as this can also be placed to block sight AND to do something else, so clearly its not LIMITED -- it is a Gate with an extra feature ADDED that duplicates the functionality of other Powers.

 

 

Also, often if you want to protect yourself (especially with a FW or Entangle where you usually can't fire back) it is also going to be a benefit to block line-of-sight.

It can be a benefit or on occasion a hindrance depending on circumstance, exactly as a Gate that blocks a sense would be. There is no functional difference; the end effect of blocking LOS is the same in all three cases.

 

In some ways the Gate version is actually BETTER than a FW or Entangle barrier. Consider; if you tossed up an Opaque FW or Entangle barrier someone could still attack either and knock them down / punch holes in them. But with a Gate acting as a screen such attacks just pass harmlessly (to the Gate and anyone on the other side of the screen) through the gate, hitting something on the terminus end of the Gate.

 

 

For an Entangle it is beneficial to block the senses of the person you trap (and maybe their allies too, so no one knows to break them out). But with Teleport, blocking sight to the place you want to travel to...? That doesn't sound like much of an advantage to me. Not like the others.

 

You are thinking about this from a unilateral perspective. Stop and consider what OTHER ways such a Power Construct could be used besides its actual intended purpose. The intention might be to create a mechanism for people to walk thru an opening in space and emerge elsewhere and have the hole in space look like a void beyond which no one can perceive, but an ancillary effect of this is to erect an Opaque field that obstructs senses which duplicates functionality of both a Power (Darkness) and is parallel to two other Powers that have an ability to do this as well as an ancillary effect via an Adder.

 

It's all very clear cut, IMO.

[Old Man]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

 

In some ways the Gate version is actually BETTER than a FW or Entangle barrier. Consider; if you tossed up an Opaque FW or Entangle barrier someone could still attack either and knock them down / punch holes in them. But with a Gate acting as a screen such attacks just pass harmlessly (to the Gate and anyone on the other side of the screen) through the gate, hitting something on the terminus end of the Gate.

 

 

It's all very clear cut, IMO.

 

.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

And a Gate that also acts as a screen such as this can also be placed to block sight AND to do something else' date=' so clearly its not LIMITED -- it is a Gate with an extra feature ADDED that duplicates the functionality of other Powers.[/quote']

OH! I think I see what you are getting at. The original poster wanted a kind of gate that you cannot see through to the other side. He didn't imply it blocks line of sight in the location of the gate to the other side (I mean if gate ties Location A to Location B, he didn't specify that the gate blocks line of sight between two people at Location A; he simply meant you cannot see from Location A through to Location B and vice versa). If it did that, I think Linked Darkness or an Adder such as you propose would be appropriate.

 

If it simply keeps people from seeing to the other side of the gate (e.g. perhaps the gate is a shimmery area in the air that is obviously some kind of portal, but through which you simply see to the other side at your current location rather than seeing the gate's destination, or maybe its dimensions are such that it just doesn't block line of sight well here), I don't think it is much of a benefit.

[Cantriped]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

or perhaps he intended the following

A Gate who's teleportive effect is invisible, you can see around it and through it normally, but any objects passing through would be teleported to the terminus point of the Gate and vise versa. (which is what I meant earlier but explained very poorly)

Of course I could be incorrect.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

or perhaps he intended the following

A Gate who's teleportive effect is invisible, you can see around it and through it normally, but any objects passing through would be teleported to the terminus point of the Gate and vise versa. (which is what I meant earlier but explained very poorly)

Of course I could be incorrect.

In that case I'd probably go with some level of Invisible Power Effects.

[Basil]

Re: Magic Question #2

 

An Adder to the base Power' date=' obviously.[/quote']

However, since Teleportation doesn't allow "seeing through" as a normal part of its operation, such an Adder sounds nonsensical at first. Of course, the idea is not nonsensical when you add in the "Gate" Limitation, but now you have an Adder that's only usable with a specific Limitation, which is a complexity I'd rather avoid.

 

However, you're right about the Opaque Gate being useful for purposes other than Teleportation, so I am changing my recommendation to a flat 1/4 reduction in the Limitation's value.