Costing Problem: Senses

[Vondy]

I am creating a character who is a real intelligence stored in a neural matrix who has been placed in a robot body. The body has an advanced sensor suite that I have built using stand-alone powers. Some of these senses are active, but several are detects for environmental factors and the like that don't turn off (and would only rarely have an impact on play). I have all the points I want to play with, but I'm still shocked at how much a sensor suite costs, and question whether that cost translates into actual effectiveness. I have considered the following options for cost-control:

 

1) VPP limited to a predefined list of powers. This is the most efficient way (and cleanest on the sheet), but several of these senses are passive - they don't turn off - so unless the pool is really big (which brings us back to square one) it doesn't model well. Some senses that don't turn off would go buy the wayside when other powers are turned on.

 

2) Multipower. This also works, but the reserve has to be big enough to run the passive powers and the biggest active power at once, so the saving may not really be all that great.

 

3) Elemental Control. This keeps all the powers on at one time, and I could rule that the powers, which cost no endurance, are permitted, but some of these powers are very small in terms of active points while others are really quite large, which means the savings per power is miniscule.

 

I guess this isn't really that big a deal, but the fact that the character is weighing in at double the points of the other characters (and I'm not done building him yet), but is clearly not twice as effective is bothering me.

[Seenar]

Re: Costing Problem: Senses

 

I have created a house rule of 1 point detects. These are for senses that just don't come up very often. 1 point instead of 3 may not sound like much, but it could add up with multiple sense.

 

 

Perhaps a lists of the senses would help too.

[Vondy]

Re: Costing Problem: Senses

 

#1 Detect Environmental Markers:

 

This was originally three 17 Point senses that I condensed into one detect with 2 additional "classes of things" tacked on. I also dropped microscopic for the viral and chemical detects based on "SFX"

 

27 Detect Environmental Markers, Bacterial, Fungal, and Viral Infections and Chemical Warfare Agents 12- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Sense, Transmit 0

 

#2 Radio Communications Suite:

 

The rapid is intended to reflect the fact that the onboard computer can monitor multiple frequencies for keywords and the like.

 

37 HRRP (Radio Group), Concealed (-4 with HRRP PER Rolls), Rapid: x100, Targeting, Tracking 0

 

# 3 Telecopic Vision, Parabolic Hearing, Extended Radar Range.

 

28 +8 versus Range Modifier for Hearing Group, Sight Group, and Radar 0

 

#4 Radar.

 

33 Radar (Radio Group), Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Rapid: x100, Transmit 0

#5 Improved Perception.

 

This brings his rolls to 15- before mods.

 

9 +3 PER with all Sense Groups 0

#6 Improved Visual Spectrum.

 

5 UV Perception (Sight Group) 0

 

5 IR Perception (Sight Group) 0

 

10 Microscopic (X100) with Sight Group 0

 

10 Transmit with Sight Group 0

#7 Improved Aural Spectrum.

 

5 Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group), Transmit 0

[Seenar]

Re: Costing Problem: Senses

 

#1 Detect Environmental Markers:

 

This was originally three 17 Point senses that I condensed into one detect with 2 additional "classes of things" tacked on. I also dropped microscopic for the viral and chemical detects based on "SFX"

 

27 Detect Environmental Markers, Bacterial, Fungal, and Viral Infections and Chemical Warfare Agents 12- (Unusual Group), Discriminatory, Analyze, Sense, Transmit 0

 

Is this analysys instant? Maybe the Discrimantory and Analyze could take extra time. the Detect gives you the warning, and the other 10 points are reduced. A full turn Lim, would save you 5 points.

 

As GM, I would probally let you drop the base cost of the sense to 5, since it is an unusual group. (Unless you are going to be in the battle field a lot)

 

 

#2 Radio Communications Suite:

 

The rapid is intended to reflect the fact that the onboard computer can monitor multiple frequencies for keywords and the like.

 

37 HRRP (Radio Group), Concealed (-4 with HRRP PER Rolls), Rapid: x100, Targeting, Tracking 0

 

 

Could the rapid part be part of a multipower?

 

 

# 3 Telecopic Vision, Parabolic Hearing, Extended Radar Range.

 

28 +8 versus Range Modifier for Hearing Group, Sight Group, and Radar 0

 

 

Clealy something that does not always need to be up. Does this happen at full DCV? A half DCv while you stablize might work to decrease costs.

 

 

#4 Radar.

 

33 Radar (Radio Group), Discriminatory, Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Rapid: x100, Transmit 0

 

#5 Improved Perception.

 

This brings his rolls to 15- before mods.

 

9 +3 PER with all Sense Groups 0

#6 Improved Visual Spectrum.

 

5 UV Perception (Sight Group) 0

 

5 IR Perception (Sight Group) 0

 

10 Microscopic (X100) with Sight Group 0

 

10 Transmit with Sight Group 0

#7 Improved Aural Spectrum.

 

5 Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group), Transmit 0

 

Those are some of my ideas to make things cheeper.

 

My other thought is too use the Replaceable Limitation. In a Star Hero game, can all this be purchaced? If so, you really need a price break.

[Lucius]

Re: Costing Problem: Senses

 

I'd probably turn #6 into a multipower.

 

What, exactly, does "transmit with sight group" mean? I thought characters were usually visible by default.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders if it's some kind of laser communication system...

[Vondy]

Re: Costing Problem: Senses

 

I'd probably turn #6 into a multipower.

 

What, exactly, does "transmit with sight group" mean? I thought characters were usually visible by default.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders if it's some kind of laser communication system...

 

It means he can transmit what he's seeing; presumably with his HRRP.

[Lucius]

Re: Costing Problem: Senses

 

Ah. I think that's one of those constructs that's open to interpretation. I always thought Transmit was for things like pairing it with Ultrasonic Hearing to emit meaningful Ultrasonic sounds, or with Discriminatory Smell for a race of creatures with pheromonic communication.

 

I might have considered what you're using it for to come free with the souped up High Range Radio.

 

A lot depends on who's running the game, I guess.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wonders when I'm going to let it run a game....

[David Johnston]

Re: Costing Problem: Senses

 

You're right. You aren't getting value for your points. That's because you've been piling on modifiers like mad.

 

First...lose those transmits. They aren't necessary. In fact they don't make sense. If you have "transmit" with the sight group that doesn't mean that you can pass on what you've seen. It means you can communicate complex concepts without speaking or using your radio, probably by a communications laser. How much more information do you expect to get from fast radar? Why are you getting "Sense Bacteria/fungi" when you have the magnification on your vision to _see_ the bacteria? Oh and drop "tracking" on your radio. I doubt your robot really has the power to sense old radio signals that were broadcast a few hours ago. "Targeting" lets you home in on a radio broadcast source with pinpoint accuracy.

[Vondy]

Re: Costing Problem: Senses

 

You're right. You aren't getting value for your points. That's because you've been piling on modifiers like mad.

 

Its not just that. Even without those mods, simple applications of senses are over-priced. When you build a "playable superman," modelling his senses is generally the thing that puts the constructs totals beyond what is otherwise reasonable. There isn't an efficient way to construct such a character.

 

First...lose those transmits. They aren't necessary. In fact they don't make sense. If you have "transmit" with the sight group that doesn't mean that you can pass on what you've seen. It means you can communicate complex concepts without speaking or using your radio' date=' probably by a communications laser.[/quote']

 

"This modifier allows a character to transmit information similiar to that which he can percieve."

 

Like Lucius said, seems open to interpretation. And pretty useless as you describe it.

 

How much more information do you expect to get from fast radar?[//quote]

 

The ability to track multiple targets at one time without penalties and transmit their vectors back to the control center - without taking penalties. Pretty much like modern radar arrays can do. Most can track a hundred or so objects as a matter of course.

 

Why are you getting "Sense Bacteria/fungi" when you have the magnification on your vision to _see_ the bacteria?

 

Because its a legitimate power contstruct based on current nano-technology research for battlefield use that has nothing to do with the sight sense group? Really, give me a break on this one. The robot isn't going to be out "looking" for dangerous environmental vectors that may impact his human compatriots with his optic systems. Personally, that's ridiculous.

 

Oh and drop "tracking" on your radio. I doubt your robot really has the power to sense old radio signals that were broadcast a few hours ago. "Targeting" lets you home in on a radio broadcast source with pinpoint accuracy.

 

Linguistically it makes sense, though targeting is system correct.