Recommended power level Start and Max

[TWoods]

Re: Recommended power level Start and Max

 

K.S., I've been looking over your website, it's a great source! I've been thinking a lot about how I would handle magic and all your magic conversions and style analyzations come in real handy, thanks.

 

On the combat levels thing --

Every 3 DEX gives you +1 OCV

So going from 10 DEX to 20 DEX gives you +4 OCV in Hero

 

In D20

Going from 10 DEX to 20 DEX gives you +5 to hit (range) and Armor class

 

So wouldn't this make the conversion of combat levels a little closer? Sorry I keep bringing this up, it's realy not important because I have a good idea of how powerful I want characters to be, but the 5 to 1 conversion thing is bugging me

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Recommended power level Start and Max

 

K.S., I've been looking over your website, it's a great source! I've been thinking a lot about how I would handle magic and all your magic conversions and style analyzations come in real handy, thanks.

 

On the combat levels thing --

Every 3 DEX gives you +1 OCV

So going from 10 DEX to 20 DEX gives you +4 OCV in Hero

 

In D20

Going from 10 DEX to 20 DEX gives you +5 to hit (range) and Armor class

 

So wouldn't this make the conversion of combat levels a little closer? Sorry I keep bringing this up, it's realy not important because I have a good idea of how powerful I want characters to be, but the 5 to 1 conversion thing is bugging me

 

A character with a 20 DEX has paid 30 character points, and gained 4 OCV / DCV plus initiative bonus, plus a better DEX roll.

 

But you're not considering a few basic facts:

 

*DEX costs 3 character points per point. Every 3 points of DEX costs 9 character points.

 

*The HERO System is a stat heavy game; stats mean more for Skill based and heroic characters, and many stats are very efficient, particularly STR, DEX, CON, PRE, SPD.

 

*The bulk of most character's CV stems from their DEX, not levels. You seem to think its the other way around (as it is in D&D).

 

*A +5 to hit in D&D is merely 25%; however +10 is 50% -- they scale in a linear fashion. A +2 relative to hit in the HERO System is almost a 25% gain, but a +4 relative to hit is only a 33% gain -- so a doubling doesnt mean the same thing at all. Diminishing returns.

 

*Mechanics do not always translate directly between two systems. In D&D it is common for hit bonuses to out pace defenses and for the difference to come out of hit points which are at least partially an indication of avoiding actual damage. In the HERO System DCV and OCV usually keep pace with one another. In D&D AC just indicates the difficulty for opponents to land a damaging blow, while in the HERO System DCV represents the difficulty for opponents to hit AT ALL.

 

ARMOR CLASS

Your Armor Class (AC) represents how hard it is for opponents to land a solid, damaging blow on you.

 

LOSS OF HIT POINTS

What Hit Points Represent: Hit points mean two things in the game world: the ability to take physical punishment and keep going, and the ability to turn a serious blow into a less serious one.

 

*Further in D&D characters don't have very many defensive options other than to raise their AC because for the hit point model to work attacks HAVE to hit semi regularly to attrite the inflated buffer worked into hit points to represent avoidance, but in the HERO System each hit that does damage is doing actual physical damage, and the numbers by which such damage is tracked are generally much smaller and are depleted faster by successful hits. characters have several defensive options that can be Aborted to in response to an attacker, such as Block, Dodge, Roll w Punch, and Dive For Cover.

 

*The D&D combat system is generally less sophisticated and has less measured against it than the HERO System. In D&D many combat penalties are assessed by drawing attacks of opportunity, making fewer attacks in a round, or with penalties of -20% severity or less (<=-4). In the HERO System there is no concept of AoO, number of attacks is controlled by a (variety) of other factors including Speed, TWF, the Sweep and Rapid Fire Manuevers (which have their own penalties worked in to them), the Autofire Advantage, and Multiple Power Attacks; thus neither sort of penalty is really applicable in the HERO System without implementing some custom mechanics. And as mentioned before the largest impact of a penalty in the HERO System is the first relative -1, so higher penalties have a diminished effect and the actual probablity impact is variable depending on the relative OCV and DCV of the attacker and target -- i.e. the penalties listed for combat manuevers do not have a constant impact; if an attacker has a 10 OCV and are striking an opponent with a 6 DCV, a -1 penalty is not really felt but when the OCV and DCV are closer, say 7 vs 6, then that same -1 is a loss of 12% which is something like a -2.5 in D&D terms. In fact, the most significant combat modifier in the HERO System is not bonuses or penalties to OCV, its situations that cause a character to drop to 1/2 DCV -- which can be thought of as a loose parrallel to drawing AoO's, but more severe.

 

*I could go on, but I need to start working. The point is, you can't just look at some numbers and say for instance "+4 = +4" without understanding the bigger picture, and what a +4 means in either system.

[Outsider]

Re: Recommended power level Start and Max

 

While 10 DEX has a nominal cost of 30 points, it really only costs 20 points, as the 1 SPD gained as a secondary benefit can be sold back (ha, right!) or as the character will not need to spend 10 points on SPD than he otherwise would have.

 

DEX 10, SPD 3 = 10 points

DEX 20, SPD 3 = 30 points

or

DEX 10, SPD 4 = 20 points

DEX 20, SPD 4 = 40 points

 

This isnt really on topic, but I've always thought DEX was underpriced compared to combat skill levels. 3 DEX = 6 points (counting the SPD rebate) = +1 OCV (all attacks) AND +1 DCV (vs all attacks), AND benefits to DEX based skills AND initiative increase

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Recommended power level Start and Max

 

While 10 DEX has a nominal cost of 30 points, it really only costs 20 points, as the 1 SPD gained as a secondary benefit can be sold back (ha, right!) or as the character will not need to spend 10 points on SPD than he otherwise would have.

 

DEX 10, SPD 3 = 10 points

DEX 20, SPD 3 = 30 points

or

DEX 10, SPD 4 = 20 points

DEX 20, SPD 4 = 40 points

Yes, I know.

This isnt really on topic, but I've always thought DEX was underpriced compared to combat skill levels. 3 DEX = 6 points (counting the SPD rebate) = +1 OCV (all attacks) AND +1 DCV (vs all attacks), AND benefits to DEX based skills AND initiative increase

It is underpriced, just as is STR and CON. All three have point recursions. STR's point recursion is so bad you actually gain more points worth of figureds than you spend on STR.

 

I discuss this (and other things) in this document: Anatomy of a HERO