Disdvantages and Multiform

[Willpower]

OK, I am putting together a character that utilizes multiform for a player in my group. I know how the cost for Multiform includes the Base Points given for the character plus disadvantages, but the rulebook is never clear on how many disadvantages another form will need. It says that they are built on the same Base points as the true form and that it must take sufficient disdavantages to balance out its cost. Which I have always taken to mean, If a form cost 300 points, and you started with 150 base points, than the form would need 150 disadvantages. If you had another form that you had paid the points to have a 400 point form for, then you would need 250 points in disads.

 

This seems to me the way it works. However, when dealing with experience, it also states that the other forms do not gain experience, but that the player may put experience from the base form into the multiform power to give all of his forms more points. The only way I can see that working, given the first caveat though is that those additional points would still need to be covered with disadvantages. Which doesn't sound right, but it is the ony thing that fits in with the first rule.

 

I always thought it would be better for Multiform to utilize a segmented cost, Say the current cost or slightly higher would be used for Base Points allowed in extra forms, and a different cost, slightly lower than the current cost would would be used for the disadvantage pool allowed for the extra forms. This would have made the power work better in my opinion, or at least it would be more flexible, and allow people to pay their experience to build up their extra forms without those forms having to acquire new weaknesses in order to cover their extra cost. Which just doesn't seem right. I mean you are paying experience to GAIN disadvantages then.

 

Please poke holes in my logic.

[SableWyvern]

Re: Disdvantages and Multiform

 

I'm having a bit of difficulty following your question, so I'll just summarise how I'm dealing with Multiform:

 

1. Under normal circumstances, a multiform may be built on the same base points as the PC. In a 200 + 100disads game, you can spend 40 on the multiform, giving 200 base points, plus 100 free in disads.

 

2. A multiform built on more than the base points must take additional disadvantages equal to the points in excess. For a example, a 50 point multiform in a 200+100 game would have 250 base points, plus 100 points in disads and it must also take another 50 points worth of disads for which it doesn't get any points back.

 

3. Regarding experience, I'm not exactly sure how the rules are meant to be interpreted, but I'm going with the following: Multiforms are only improved by spending points on the Multiform ability of the base character. A player can declare his Multiform is static, in which case he can't normally improve it at all. Otherwise, it is dynamic, and increases at the same rate as the base character. If the Mltiform is not limited or advantaged, every sixth XP goes into Multiform. This value needs to be tweaked for advantaged or limited powers.

 

Frex, a Multiform with a -1 disad will gain two active points (10 character points for the form) for every real point spent. In this case, the player must spend every eleventh point on the Multiform.

 

Edit: Note that, using this experience system, the Multiform keeps pace with the base character, and thus there is no need to be adding new disads.

 

Hope that helps.

[Willpower]

Re: Disdvantages and Multiform

 

Sorry, but this sounds like you are using 4th edition rules. 5th does not include anything special on building forms built on more points than the base form. You are also not limited to the same number of points the base character is built on, only the base. The example they use in the book has a 350 pt base form who has several other lesser forms as well as a 400 pt. Tyrannosaur. Also, the Disads are not for free, you have to pay for them as well. At least according to the 5th Edition RB.

[SableWyvern]

Re: Disdvantages and Multiform

 

Hmm...

 

I see what you mean. I came into HERO with 5ER, so the older stuff must be something that I picked up on these boards when I was first looking into Multiform.

 

Edit: However, if you follow the guidelines for advancing alternate forms in step with the base form, then you still avoid the problem of requiring extra disadvantages. IE, an alternate form only gets an extra 5 character points after the base form has already received 5 extra itself.

 

2nd Edit: Actually, the more I look into it, the more it appears that the rules I'm using are actually some evil bastardised combination of 5ER, comments from others on this board, and my own misunderstandings. Still, they seem to be working for me, so I'll stick with them.

[Remjin]

Re: Disdvantages and Multiform

 

My understanding is you pay for total points in the form including disads. Disads are as campaign standard. Point levels are as allowed by GM, but standard is same as base form. You must selext a base form to base it all on. One form is the base, so that if the multiform is drained or suppressed you have a default form.

 

You spend experience to gain base points, no disadvantages implied. There is a caution that it is easy to outrun the base form and a suggestion that you follow a formula to keep all forms in oace with the base form. Cost isn't the issue, active points placed into the multiform's cost for point levels is the only consideration for how many more points go into the forms.

 

Seems like the fairest method is to simply keep all forms at the same advancement as the base form unless your concept calls for otherwise.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Disdvantages and Multiform

 

By the book, you pay 1/5 the total points (base + Disad's) for your Multiform, and need to cover any increase over the base character's base points with Disad's.

 

The only addendum I would make is that I would generally cap any form at the same maximum (base + disad's) as the PC's. With that in mind, I treat the extra points purchased with xp as extra base points, not requiring extra disad's.

 

I might consider, case by case, a form with more than the campaign maximum points. Such a form would need to somehow be balanced with the campaign norms. One part of that might very well be to require covering all points above the base character's base + xp with additional disadvantages.

 

Yes, your 75 + 75 point character can, by the bok, pay 100 points for a 500 point form with 425 points in disad's. It's not adequate that the book allows it. The GM must also allow it. I likely won't.