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What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?


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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

"A second might be a French vampire who is pretty gothic. Superhumanly strong/fast with mind control powers. She'd a jack of all trades, master of none although she'd make a good infil specialist along with Cutlass. She is a fashion designer (hey, it's LA!) and also gives the team an international flair. To be honest though, the character leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth."

 

Trad. vamps aren't for everyone. Maybe redefine vamps in your world, or add a new kind.

 

Idea OTTOMH: She has no melanin in her skin, so she burns very easy. She's got low-light vision, but can't handle bright lights. Her sense of smell is so good garlic is overwhelming. Her resistance and recovery are phenomenal, but wood interpheres. High strength, astonishing DEX, and hypnosis plus whatever you like. Just make her a goth-chick and you're set.

 

That's a pretty good idea... might have to steal it.

 

:)

 

 

I could help more if I knew what gives you "a bit of a bad taste in the mouth."

 

I'll be honest in that it's just a feeling rather than something definitely defined. Vampires just feel so played out and that it's just an idea I have without anything to really make it unique. Still, with some work it might be ok. Or I can just steal from ya.

 

:)

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

I've gone back to using more "traditional" vampires in our campaign simply because due to overuse in film and fiction the "we're cool, great looking, and immortal" vampires have become so blasé. I prefer portraying them as the inhuman monsters they are rather than running with the trend and portraying them as victims.

 

Oddly, I enjoy vampire heroes/antiheroes such as the late Fred Saberhagen's Dracula books, but I want something more black and white in a Silver Age campaign.

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

Just wanted to thank everyone so far for their help (and of course, please continue to send in those suggestions).

 

In the meantime, a snippet from NG's history. It's kinda crude (no real editing) but I hope it paints a picture:

 

History:

 

"5 minutes to curtain Gail."

 

How often have I heard those words? A thousand times? Two thousand times? The tours were a blur, one city melting into another until the old joke about the having to check her armband to get the town's name right wasn't funny anymore. But even in her room, she could hear the crowds chanting for Nightingale, their cries growing impatient now that the opening act had retired.

 

The woman waved her manager away before he could hover. Matt Long frowned but left the dressing room. He had learned to read her well enough over the years he had guided her career. She could still remember that piece of advice that had changed her life.

 

Are you sure Matt? I mean, these are the Crusaders of Justice! Doctor Atomic, Athena, and that creepy Nighthunter- what do they want with *me*?

 

You already answered the question. They need someone who the people can relate to. Athena's a goddess, Nighthunter probably skewers squirrels in his backyward with his arrows and Doctor Atomic- hey he saves the world and all but nuclear power is so 10 years ago! The Crusaders need someone who the people will love and that's you!

 

But-

 

Gail Lewis- born in the projects of the Bronx who with her talent and drive has emerged as America's most promising singer since Elvis!

 

Matt, don't you think that's exaggerating-

 

And now, mere miles from where she grew up, she'll be in Manhattan - shoulder to shoulder with America's, not the *world's* greatest heroes! It's the American dream Gail and that'll sell a lot of records! It'll be perfect!

 

Of course, things didn't go quite as perfectly as her manager thought it would go and the Crusaders were polite but firm- they'd help train the young mutant to use her emerging abilities but that they had no interest in expanding their ranks. Fate itself seemed to intervene when one of the Crusader's old enemies, the wizard Murdock, attacked with the hypnotic song of a conjured siren.

 

Realizing they would need a siren of their own to counteract the mythic creature's hold on their male teammates, Athena and Glamour tracked down Gail. Together, the three broke the spell and turned the tables on Murdock. Afterwards, the team couldn't extend an offer for membership fast enough.

 

A junior member anyway. The anger that this thought had once accompanied had been replaced by warmth and nostalgia. Has it really been that long ago?

 

Two decades melted away as she remembered how the seventeen year old Nightingale had been treated more like a sidekick than a full team member. Whether it was Nighthunter's and Athena's constant lessons, Glamour looking down her aristocratic nose and muttering about keeping a stiff upper lip when dealing with children or Hornet's big brother routine, there were the constant reminders that she was not yet old enough to vote.

 

Even Blue Bolt was older than her and Sunturion always called her "kid canary." The solar sentinel had especially been frustrating to her but the twinkle in his eyes, devilishness of his smile, and the way he ruffled her hair never failed to defuse her outbursts.

 

Scott, I still miss you. Lorelei felt the beginning of her tears and wiped them away quickly. She'd have to call makeup to touch up and she wanted to be alone with her memories.

 

It had been a long time ago but there was no love like the first love. Her relationship with a man ten years her senior was considered scandalously by many yet the sensation bolstered the teen idol's already soaring record sales to stratospheric levels. Matt thought it had been an act of genius rather than love.

 

Months passed and life was great: Gail made the transition from teenager to young woman with remarkable grace and her records matured as well with strong sales that made her one of America's top pop stars. Her relationship with Sunturion was a tumultuous one though, the solar sentinel's eye prone to wandering although he claimed to always to be faithful.

 

The whispers remains though: that maybe she should have been placed in the Teen Crusaders (she had missed the team's formation by a year). In combat, the others still had that tendency to be overprotective.

 

Then came the case with the Night. While on a training mission with Nighthunter and his sidekick, Spirit Bow, the Japanese criminal organization captured her with ease.

 

Gail touched her throat, remembering the choking tightness of the heavy collar they had leased her with. Her sonic scream nullified, Nightingale spent three days stubbornly resisting torture at the syndicate's hands. Three days she spent waiting and watching, as her captors did what so many other had done: see her as just the pop star and junior Crusaders.

 

On the fourth day, the Night grew careless: they only sent two guards to retrieve her. She knocked them both out. Over the next hour, she sabotaged their robotic defenses, recovered intelligence on a plot to poison half the city, called in the Crusaders, and fought her way through their scattered ranks to emerge into the light: all without her powers.

 

During the mop-up, Hornet commented, "the kid didn't do too bad."

 

Nighthunter placed a hand on Gail's shoulder in a rare sign of affection. "I don't see any kids here. That noted, Nightingale did very well, as I expected." He actually smiled at her and added, "nice work."

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

Thank you kindly Tre. Coming from your, with your history of rich characters and excellent writing, that means ALOT.

 

Here's another little snippet before I go to bed. I LOVE it when the writing flows (even if the actually quality isn't that great):

 

Years passed, records continued to sell, the Crusaders saved the universe more than once, and the Crusaders added new members. Older members found more and more of their time taken up by their individual crime fighting so that Nightingale became someone the hero that others came to for advice and mentoring. In the field, she stepped up into the leadership role with bold action that was usually spot on.

 

Still, that day came as a surprise:

 

"The votes have been counted and I have to tell you, it wasn't even close."

 

I'm sure it wasn't, Nightingale thought as Blue Bolt flourished the ballots. Doctor Atomic had been spending more time with the Crusaders in the wake of the Destruction Crisis and the world's greatest hero was a lock- she had voted for the man herself.

 

"Congratulations, Nightingale! You're the new chairperson."

 

Nightingale nearly fell out of her chair. "What? That can't be right."

 

In his gleaming silver costume, Doctor Atomic shook the stunned woman's hand. "Of course it is Gail. When most of us were being held in the Obsidian Citadel, you were the one who rallied the team and got us out. You're the one who kept the Morovians from devastating Earth's cities."

 

"Hell ya," called Black Eagle. "We were all freaking like chickens with our heads cut off and there you were: shouting orders, getting us together, and smacking the crap out of the baddies."

 

Radiant Athena chuckled. "I would not have put it quite that way, but the sentiment is clear and shared by us all: we would tear asunder the gates of Hades, cast down its guardian Cerberus, and journey through the caverns of Tartarus without hesitation because we know you would lead us safely to the Elysian fields "

 

Lost in the fanfare, only to remembered later, was Sunturion's glower as he looked on. It wasn't hard for Nightingale to figure out who had cast the only other vote against her.

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

"A second might be a French vampire who is pretty gothic. Superhumanly strong/fast with mind control powers. She'd a jack of all trades' date=' master of none although she'd make a good infil specialist along with Cutlass. She is a fashion designer (hey, it's LA!) and also gives the team an international flair. To be honest though, the character leaves a bit of a bad taste in the mouth."[/i']

 

Trad. vamps aren't for everyone. Maybe redefine vamps in your world, or add a new kind.

 

Idea OTTOMH: She has no melanin in her skin, so she burns very easy. She's got low-light vision, but can't handle bright lights. Her sense of smell is so good garlic is overwhelming. Her resistance and recovery are phenomenal, but wood interpheres. High strength, astonishing DEX, and hypnosis plus whatever you like. Just make her a goth-chick and you're set.

 

That's a pretty good idea... might have to steal it.

Go ahead. That means YOU have to work out the details. :eg:

:)

 

 

I could help more if I knew what gives you "a bit of a bad taste in the mouth."

 

I'll be honest in that it's just a feeling rather than something definitely defined. Vampires just feel so played out and that it's just an idea I have without anything to really make it unique. Still, with some work it might be ok. Or I can just steal from ya.

 

:)

 

IOW, you're tired of all the current stories about vamps. I thought so, that's why I suggested doing something different with 'em.

 

Go with my idea, or come up with something off the wall of your own. So long as it feels like a vamp, it'll work.

 

Yeah, I like vampires, how did you tell?

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

How fanatic are her fans?

 

In addition to Public ID and Rep, she might have "Hunted, Paparazzi," her fans might run toward her superhero battles, multiplying the innocent bystanders as the combat progresses, and there is always the risk of a fan going Mark Chapman on her.

Wow nice idea. What kind of point value would you assign that? Especially if the Hero in question had "Puts Innocents before Self" or something like that? Would that be a social or a helleva DNPC?

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

Wow nice idea. What kind of point value would you assign that? Especially if the Hero in question had "Puts Innocents before Self" or something like that? Would that be a social or a helleva DNPC?

 

Social Limitation: Famous: Frequently, Minor: 10 points --- that's right from the rule book. ;)

 

DNPC: current crowd of looky-loo fans: Incompetent, 11-, x32: 35 points --- adjust frequency, and size of crowd, to taste. BTW I think you should make the size of the crowd the minimum number of idiots---excuse me, innocents---that show up.

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

Just adding a little more of Nightingale's (current) history:

 

"Two minutes Gail!"

 

"Coming!"

 

Time waited for no one, certainly not Nightingale and things only seemed to move faster after she assumed the chairmanship. Calamites continued to pop up but there were friends to bear the burden. A string of hours and albums kept Gail on her precarious position at the top of the charts as younger rivals nipped at her feels, always getting closer. And punctuating the memories were fights and reconciliations with Scott as the pair grew apart. She as no longer the carefree and free-spirited young girl fascinated with a hero but the mature and busy woman whose career and responsibilities took up most of her time and what was left she did not want to spend on someone who refused to commit.

 

Closer to the stage now, she felt the stadium come alive with the cheers of over fifty thousand fans so that the building itself shook with their applause and stomping feet. I remember when I was lucky to have fifty people waiting for me, she thought as she remembered how fleeting fame and success could be.

 

Her last year in the Crusaders and third time as leader had been a tough one: one member died, another was crippled, and New Camelot has been blown out of the sky. No one blamed her but that did not ease her guilt. Not as important, but still distracting, was the sinking state of her career: her last two albums had tanked badly as the public shifted to new faces and new music styles. Gail hoped her new album, a radical departure from her pop songs and ballads, would spark interest again.

 

Compounding her turmoil were Sunturion's problems: a devastating revelation had shaken him to the core and he alternated between lashing out and withdrawing. Seeking each other out, they gave the relationship one last try despite her misgivings and those of her friends. It has taken Gail five hours to convince Valkyrie to unbend the steel bars that her Norse friend had bound her with.

 

As Gail walked to the stage, she remembered another approach: after a long day at the Crusader's temporary facilities and an even longer day arguing with her manager over the upcoming album (he said she was "Yoko Ono-ing herself," all she had wanted was a hot shower and a good night's sleep. Alighting onto her penthouse balcony, she was startled to see Scott there.

 

Shock came next when she saw he wasn't alone. Her scream sent both of them through the wall and into the living room.

 

The media had a field day. Although Sunturion has managed to blunt the sonic attack with his own gravity waves, the woman had still suffered several broken bone- Nightingale could have killed both of them. Nightingale left the Crusaders over moderate protests (a few members thought it was best for the team while others defended her ferociously) and publicly apologized for her actions. More covertly, she paid a large sum to the woman to go away and not press charges.

 

Her new album, "Another Side of Me", spent more time as in late night talk show punch lines than on the charts. Rolling Stones wrote, "whether the album refers to the mishmash of new wave sound, urban lyrics, and a beat from a country that National Geographic knows nothing about OR the super heroine's psychotic tendency to slam people through walls, this is clearly not a side we ever wanted to see and certainly not been forced to listen to."

 

When she thought things could not get worse, they did. Her best friend Valkyrie heard the call for Ragnarok and could not deny her place in the final battle of the gods. The Event occurred next. In its horrific aftermath, Gail's teammates and dearest friends, including the man she had once loved, were gone and her life as a super heroine was over. Other friends that she had thought were true abandoned her when her record company chose to not renew her contact. No longer able to soar either through the air or on the charts, she instead crawled into a bottle of vodka

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

For a disadvantage:

 

Hunted: Rogues Gallery, 8-

 

You've been around a long time. You've made some enemies. You probably have one or two "archnemesis" that get their own Hunted line on your sheet. But for the rest, take them as a group Hunted and list a half dozen people that want to kick your butt.

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

For a disadvantage:

 

Hunted: Rogues Gallery, 8-

 

You've been around a long time. You've made some enemies. You probably have one or two "archnemesis" that get their own Hunted line on your sheet. But for the rest, take them as a group Hunted and list a half dozen people that want to kick your butt.

 

Is that a quote? If it is, where's it from, please? :)

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

I already use a Rogues Gallery for some of my heroes but it's always good to repost the idea since it can really work well- thank you.

 

Most of my original Crusaders have it since they already have their own solo books and thus have an arsenal of baddies to chose from so it makes alot of sense. It will work well for NG as well I think although I'm not sure how many of the old enemies are still around. Then again, they never do seem to go away, do they?

 

;)

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

Hi everyone! Just adding another part to get some impressions. With everyone's advice, Nightingale is really clicking with me and I think that her background is now one of the most detailed that I've ever put together for a Champions character. I can't wait to put up the Angels now (of course, I'm also working on the Crusaders at the same time so we'll see when it all comes together.) In the meantime, please enjoy!

 

She hit the stage and the fifty thousand strong crowd rose to their feet in thunderous applause. The sound was a deafening wave crashing over the singer but still above that, she could just make out the chant of her name: "Gail! Gail G-"

 

"Gail!"

 

The shout drove the spike deeper into her pounding skull and Gail pulled the covers back over her head. Last night had been a bender even by her standards and she couldn't remember much beyond the vodka shots and that cute model. Todd or Tad? She couldn't remember.

 

A male voice spoke out, "hey babe, you're interfering with my private time. Unless you want to join- urk!"

 

"Away varlet, before I circumcise you with rusty shears! You are worth neither my time nor hers."

 

A very short scuffle followed by the slamming of a door and pounding feet came next. Gail burrowed further under the covers and was trying to will the pain away when the sheets were ripped away. In the blinding light, she could just make out a very tall woman with long blonde hair.

 

"Gail, there you are! You're -" the woman sniffed "-drunker that a longboat crew after a hard month at sea."

 

The former heroine grabbed the sheets back and pulled them over her head. "And you're some hallucination but I'll be sober later. Val's been dead for over seven years and I'm not in the mood for this crap."

 

The figment of her imagination pulled the sheet away with surprising vigor, tearing the cotton in half. "I got better. Gail it's a really long story but I'm so glad to be back!" Gail struggled feebly as powerful arms lifted her up and worsened her hangover. The bonecrushing hug didn't help either.

 

"Cut it out! I'm too drunk to be dealing with this crap. I'm going back to sleep and when I wake up, Todd or Tad- Tommy whatever will be here and I won't be so damn hung-over."

 

The hallucination dropped her. "You really don't realize that it's me." The fake Valkyrie looked the fallen heroine up and down with an intense scrunity that made Gail uncomfortable even though she knew it was a dream, wasn't it? Her bottom hurt enough from the fall to feel real. "By Odin, what happen to you?" The voice soften and Val knelt down to be face to face with the other woman. "Have the years been so unkind since I've last seen you?" Golden hair shifted back and forth across broad shoulders as the goddess looked around the cramped with its piles of clothing, half-eaten cartons of take-out, and scattered bottles of alcohol.

 

"Oh go slag off! I'm going back to- hey let go!"

 

Gail yelled as the other woman grabbed her by the scruff of the neck and dragged her out of the bedroom. 'I spent most of my existence bringing the dead to their place eternal reward- perhaps in my new life I can bring the dead back to life and I will start with you!"

 

Before Gail could protest, Valkyrie slammed her against the tile of her shower and turned the faucet. Spluttering under the frigid explosion of droplets, Gail tried to squirm away by the goddess's grip was like iron. Twice, she tried to turn her head and unleash her long-forgotten powers but Val would casually yank her hair back and the bone-chilling water poured down her throat. Coughing and choking, Gail froze as the ice-cold waters washed away the drunken haze.

 

Just as suddenly, the water stopped and the arm holding her was gone. Bonelessly, she collapsed to her knees and shivered as she rubbed her arms to push warmth back into her frozen limbs.

 

"Towel?"

 

Gail took the fluffy white cotton and wrapped herself in it. Rocking back and forth in the bathtub, she regained more of her senses and looked to see her long lost friend staring back at her. Hesitantly, she probed her friend's strong Nordic features, fearful that they would pop like a soap bubble and she'd be alone again. "You're… really back?"

 

"Like I said, I got better- "

 

She was cut off as Gail launched herself at the goddess and held her tightly. The embrace was returned. In her ear, Gail heard the soft words: "you have a long road ahead of your, but I'll be with you every step of the way, my friend."

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

Just updating a bit even as I work on the rest of Nightingale's history (rough draft, anyway). I'm taking an new take on the vampire. I think that I'm going to have her originally from a Vietnamese street gang and she was one of many kidnapped for an experiment by a cabal that has both VIPER and shadowy government components.

 

The aim: create supersoldiers. The template- a legendary assassin named Black Lotus that some believed was not only superhuman but supernatural. Betrayed and captured, she was experimented on for months and a puesdo-DNA synthesized (the idea being that while some characteristics of vampirism could be seen from a biological component, there are others that are too mystical to be replicated by science.

 

Unfortunately, Black Lotus proved too resourceful to hold indefinately and she escaped. In the carnage, her "children" escaped and the heroine is one of them.

 

So we'll see what direction I take it in. I like the idea of having Nightingale and Valkyrie as the older and more experienced heroines leading the young-uns. Besides Cutlass (swordswoman) and Frenzy (the vampire), I'm trying to come up with two last members. I'm missing science and mysticism but I'm not sure how to meet that exactly.

 

Originally I wanted a biochemist who invented her own speedster powers but I already have two other speedsters and in a world that doesn't have a ton of teams, that starts to get crowded. I'm consideringsome type of metamorph.

 

I'm also not sure about the mystic. Originally, I wanted her to be the daughter of Johnny Adventure, an omincompetent man ala Mister Terrific of JSA fame who sired a daughter with a island goddess. Sensing that the goddess was evil, he escaped with his infant daughter to the US and trained her as an adventurer (it's what he knew best) so that she's pretty much a jack of all trades. However, her powers are starting to come out and she can't control them.

 

That's about it right now. My team is already chock full of skills (Nightingale and Val are experienced heroes, Cutlass is steathy as is Frenzy to a lesser degree, and I'll have a scientist) although why sacrifice a good concept for team balance? Heck, the lack of mystic knowledge could be a plot point as it were.

 

Anyway, just thinking outloud. As always, please feel free to advise and toss in ideas.

 

Thank you very much.

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Re: What would some good limits be for an experienced hero?

 

Hi everyone- just posting the last part of the rough draft of Nightingale's origin. I hope you like it and again, please feel free to add suggestions and give advice.

 

Standing in front of the audience, Nightingale was at ease. She was the glamorous singer who was all too eager to entertain her fans. It was a side of her that she had never had a problem showing. It had been far more difficult when she had said:

 

"Hi, my name is Gail, and I'm an alcoholic."

 

"Hi Gail."

 

Facing down the twelve foot and heavily armored Dreadnaught, leader of the Morvian Armada, had not scared her has much as looking at the twenty people in the church basement. But they accepted her without judgment and so began her personal recovery. Besides removing the vodka from her life, she also started training again and that seemed a longer road still:

 

"Ouch!

 

"Stop whining Gail. You used to teach unarmed combat for Odin's sake."

 

"That was a long time- hey!"

 

The right cross just missed Gail's left temple as she ducked. Backing up, she was just able to block a straight punch from Valkryie. Wrapping her fingers around the other woman's wrist, Gail turned and dropped low to toss the Norse goddess over her shoulder and drive her into the mat.

 

"Well done!"

 

Gail just frowned; the impact had not even winded her friend. Before she could retort, a sharp impact hit the back of her knees and she hit the ground hard.

 

"But you still have much to remember!"

 

Gail bit down on her lip to stifle her laughter even as her lips tugged upward at her friend's infectious joy.

 

Behind her, the speakers kicked: fast and energetic with a pulse-pounding beat, "So you thought I was gone" was the perfect song to kick off the night and bring the crowd to their feet. It was the album that had announced to the world that she was back.

 

The club was not even half-filled with only a score patrons. Those who were there murmured amongst themselves, nursed drinks, and lighted fresh cigarettes in the stale, stuffy air. Gail ducked back behind the curtain as her stomach sank. "Matt, they looked bored."

 

"That's because they are bored sweetheart. You need to change that."

 

She sighed and at tugged at her black tanktop. Matt tilted his head at the gestured and stated, "you look good Gail, better than you've been in years."

 

"Thanks. Too bad I can't say the same for yourself."

 

Her former manager chuckled and opened his arms to emphasize his paunch. "Life's been good for me." The smile softened. "Let's see if we can do the same for you."

 

Gail ducked her head around the curtain again and saw the same bored crowd in the shabby, mostly empty room. "A weeknight in one of the more popular clubs would have been a better start."

 

Matt's lips flattened. "They didn't want you."

 

"Oh."

 

"Look Gail…"- the man placed his fleshy hands on her bared and toned shoulders. It was a fatherly gesture even though only ten years separated them. "It doesn't matter if you start here or somewhere else. You know why?" In the silence, he answered his own question: "because no one I've ever known could ever sing or move a crowd like you could. If you go out there and do what you used to do best, they will be on their feet."

 

"I hope so." She saw the club manager, a stub of a man with a cheap suit, open shirt of too much hair, and a gold-plated smile wave her to the stage. Taking a deep breath, Gail tried to tamp down the butterflies and walked to the stage.

 

"And remember, stick to the old stuff like you promised! It's what they're here for!"

 

Gail waved behind her as she had before in the past. Matt must have remembered what it meant because she heard him swear.

 

Eighty minutes later, Matt was singing a new tune. Standing ovations, stamping feet, and calls so loud to repeat her final song that the club manager feared a small riot could do that. "So, it's called 'Back into the Light', huh?"

 

The smile wouldn't go away from her lips. "It seemed appropriate."

 

"Yeah, it is. You got anymore of those songs?"

 

"A whole disk of them." Gail jerked a thumb towards the parking lot. "I've got a trunk full outside."

 

And that night it started anew. From one club to the next, selling her self-financed CD "So you thought I was gone" out of the trunk of her car, and shoving demos down the throat of every DJ and record executive in the business. Starting back at the beginning reminded Gail of what she had loved about the business in the first place: performing.

 

Then the call came: "Gail, 'Back into the Light' hit the charts last night."

 

"Alright!" Right next to her, Valkryie giggled like a school girl and high-fived her friend. So ecstatic was Gail, she was able to ignore the bone-jarring impact. "So we're talking top forty?"

 

"Babe, we're talking number one! You're back on top!"

 

And here she was now: in front of fifty thousand people and having the time of her life: she wasn't going to let it get away from her again.

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