House Rule of X sort of campaign ground rule

[Willpower]

On a different board I saw a guideline for dealing with dice and speed that I really liked. It was very simple. Dice of damage for a character plus the characters speed could be no greater than 20. I really liked this conept, though it appeared not completely finished to me. It seemed a lot like the Fuzion system's Rule of X which I liked. It too, was not completely finished for me.

 

The Rule of X was missing a Speed element offensively at least, where as this rule is missing an offensive skill element. The rule of X worked great as it was, but if 2 people had the same offensive X, and one operated at 3 points greater Speed, it was no mystery as to who was more powerful. (I know, Fuzion didn't include Speed at first, though we incorporated it.) This rule doesn't incorporate offensive skill, and two people both operate at 12d6 damage, and have an 8 Speed, than it is also not a mystery to know that the one with a 12 OCV is more powerful than the one with an 8.

 

As it is, I like basing the power element off of Speed, though either way this will work. What I am thinking might work best is to work the rules based off damage and speed, and then add in the skill element based off a deviation for the campaign norm. So for instance if the campaign normal for CV is 6-8, and you have a CV of 10, then those extra 2 points come off either the damage or the speed the character can have.

 

As I said this can work in reverse too, making the number based off CV + damage dice, may work better in some cases, as their is less deviation among Spd than their is among CV. So if someone had 8 CV and 12D6 damage, they could have the campaign average of 6 for speed if the number used was 20. OR they could have a CV of 10, and do 10d6 damage. Or they could have a 9 OCV, do 9d6 damage, and have an 8 Spd. Both work similar, though with the second things could develop how I saw them do in Fuzion, where people have one attack at one power level, and another at a lesser level with a couple of skill levels to offset the damage difference, in order to keep the same offensive rule of X. I just don't like that manipulation aspect to this house rule, so I will probably prefer the first option rather than the second.

 

First off, I want to know what everyone thinks of this, and then I also like to come up with a way of regulating the other side of this, the way the rule of X did. Maybe something like DCV plus 1/5th defenses +1/5th stun, or something like that.

 

Any ideas to help expand on this basic idea?

[Trebuchet]

Re: House Rule of X sort of campaign ground rule

 

We've been using the SPD + DC <= 20 as a guideline for almost 15 years in our Champions campaign. (I came up with it independently; I've never seen Fuzion.) It seems to work just fine as a general guideline for keeping characters within shouting distance; although I think individual examination by the GM is still important.

 

As a rule I don't care for strict Rules of X; they tend to promote a certain sameness amongst characters. But as guidelines rather than hard and fast rules I think they can have merit.

[Willpower]

Re: House Rule of X sort of campaign ground rule

 

Yeah, I think your campaign is probably the one I read about on a different forum. I like the idea. I think it can help self regulate a campaign. I'm not shooting for total control with a rule, but more of a guideline for characters to look at when designing their characters, and upgrading them with XP, before they show them to me for approval. I'm just thinking that its missing a CV component that will take into account all aspects of offense.

 

The last thing I want to do though is make all the characters the same though, which is why I liked using Spd and DC, and adjusting for CV. The CV limits in the campaign are a loose range of figures rather than a solid figure like Speed. Going with CV and DC and adjusting based on Spd I think will is not as good, because I think it will make players more shoot for that number for all characters. Taking their characters to the limit and then using levels for particular attacks so they can have one attack that doesn't do as much they are really accurate with, one that is slightly more powerful they hit decently with, and another that is really powerful they don't hit well with.

 

Of course it could still end up that way going the other way. So it could be that not including the CV is the way to go. I just forsee a brick with an 8 CV having attacks and speed that equal 20 and a martial artist with the same basic set up, but having a 12 CV, and seeing that the brick could see it as unfair, and the martial artist seeing it as fine, since they should hit more often anyway.

 

I really don't forsee this happening though, cause as I said, I am going to use it more as guidelines for when they bring their characters to me, and then we will adjust things from there.

[Trebuchet]

Re: House Rule of X sort of campaign ground rule

 

I should note that no one in our campaign has even hit that 20; although we have several 19's. Our brick has a 4 SPD and a 75 STR; my MA has 9 SPD and does 10d6 with her best attack (Pushing not included in either). Other characters are all 18 or 19 scores. As we acrue XP we're looking at raising the number to 22 or so in the future but it hasn't happened yet.

 

As I said, all it does is keep characters in shouting range of each other, but it seems to work as a way to stay roughly equal. No formula (no matter how complicated) is going to make every character truly "equal" in combat. There are simply too many variables including ones that are entirely character independent such as fight location and even the skill and imagination of the individual players.

[Willpower]

Re: House Rule of X sort of campaign ground rule

 

True. Sounds like you have a pretty good group of players. Typically, the people I meet and end up having in a group try to push the envelope. If I put end caps on powers they mostly try to reach it. Which is why I enacted my loose and fast Give and Take principal. Basically, I tell the player that they are at the upper limits here, so they have to go lower somewhere else.

 

I might go ahead and just take from your lead, and ignore the CV aspect, as a way to keep my give and take going. If someone is approaching the limit, just tell them that means they can't have as high of a CV. Also looking at other things on the character too.

 

I still manage to keep the group in control and fairly well balanced, but I am just hoping to include a guideline to help them try and maintain balance themselves, so I don't always have to be the bad guy.

[garou]

Re: House Rule of X sort of campaign ground rule

 

One thing we have (for our design criteria) is an AP limit for the turn, so if you want to go at Spd 4, your attacks can have a high AP limit than the speedster who wants to move at Spd 10. This is in addition to guidelines on OCV/DCV, rPD or rED, PD/ED, etc. And all guidelines are 'soft' - for example, if I am building a fire-based character (a la Johnny Storm), then I can exceed the campaigns limits on ED, provided the "excess" ED is "Only vs. Fire".

[Trebuchet]

Re: House Rule of X sort of campaign ground rule

 

True. Sounds like you have a pretty good group of players. Typically, the people I meet and end up having in a group try to push the envelope. If I put end caps on powers they mostly try to reach it. Which is why I enacted my loose and fast Give and Take principal. Basically, I tell the player that they are at the upper limits here, so they have to go lower somewhere else.

 

I might go ahead and just take from your lead, and ignore the CV aspect, as a way to keep my give and take going. If someone is approaching the limit, just tell them that means they can't have as high of a CV. Also looking at other things on the character too.

 

I still manage to keep the group in control and fairly well balanced, but I am just hoping to include a guideline to help them try and maintain balance themselves, so I don't always have to be the bad guy.

We have a damn good group of players, if I do say so myself. Most of us have known each other and gamed together for over 20 years and participation in our campaigns is by invitation only. More important to our success is respecting each other's schticks.

 

We never bothered to restrict Combat Values even when we still used caps under 4th Edition rules. Since DEX and SPD were so expensive, high levels of CV generally meant attacks and/or defenses had to give up something.