Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

[Gideon]

I have a problem understanding Invisibility and Shapeshift when it comes to targeting VS non-targeting senses and sense groups.

 

Let me explain...

 

According to the book, the only sense group that is automatically targeting is the sight group. So if I want to be invisible to sight I need to pay the points for "Targeting Sense Group".

 

The hearing group is listed as a non-targeting group, so it would make sense to buy my invisibility to all hearing as "Non-targeting Sense Group".

 

But what happens if someone is playing Dog-man, and has targeting hearing? I payed to be invisible to the entire hearing group. Which power trumps?

 

If I want to be truly invisible to all all sight and hearing, do I need to buy both as targeting groups, even though targeting hearing is almost unheard of?

 

The same thing goes for shapeshift.

 

The book says that a voice modulator (voice changer) should be bought as Images, but a voice synthesizer (a device that makes its own voice) should be shapeshift.

 

If my character has a voice synthesizer (effectively the character thinks something and the machine speaks it for him, the character never actually talks), and the power is bought as Shapeshift: hearing group (non-targeting), how will this interact with targeting hearing? Should the power be bought as "Targeting group"?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

 

The only targetting sense for most games is sight EVEN IF some characters have other targeting senses.

 

For some games there might be more than one targetign sense: for instance in a PSIONICS game you might assume that both sight and mental senses are targeting.

 

So, just buy invisibility and such with sight as the only senses group that costs more, for most games.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

 

I'd have thought a voice modulator was shapeshift (changing existing voice to appear different)and a voice synthesiser was images (creating the appearance of something that did not otherwise exist), but what do I know? The 'voice synthesiser' you describe is in fact a form of voice changer, to my mind, but I'd buy it as a non-targeting shapeshift anyway, even in a world where Dog-man exists.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

 

You buy the Sense Powers against the default assumption of the Sense Group.

 

If you buy Invisibility to Hearing it is considered to be Non-Targeting. If a Character has Targeting for Hearing you are still considered Invisible to them.

 

The reason the Powers are costed and worded that way is if the GM decides to change the default assumptions for the Sense Groups for a Game.

 

If, for whatever reason, the GM decides that Hearing is a Targeting Sense Group in his Campaign, and everyone has Targeting for Hearing due to that you would then pay for Invisi/et al. Hearing Group as a Targeting-Sense.

[Gideon]

Re: Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

 

You buy the Sense Powers against the default assumption of the Sense Group.

 

If you buy Invisibility to Hearing it is considered to be Non-Targeting. If a Character has Targeting for Hearing you are still considered Invisible to them.

 

The reason the Powers are costed and worded that way is if the GM decides to change the default assumptions for the Sense Groups for a Game.

 

If, for whatever reason, the GM decides that Hearing is a Targeting Sense Group in his Campaign, and everyone has Targeting for Hearing due to that you would then pay for Invisi/et al. Hearing Group as a Targeting-Sense.

 

Ok, what about invisibility or shapeshift to a single non-targeting sense, like radar, or normal smell? Would a targeting version of said sense trump the alteration?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

 

Ok' date=' what about invisibility or shapeshift to a single non-targeting sense, like radar, or normal smell? Would a targeting version of said sense trump the alteration?[/quote']

 

No. If it is a Default Non-Targeting Sense you buy Invisi/et al. as that state.

 

If someone purchases Targeting for those Senses or Sense Groups your Power still works against them.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

 

Think of it as a campaign cost If the rules of the campaign are that only one sense is normally targeting then that is the only one you have to pay a premium to foil, even if other senses CAn be targeting.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

 

Think of it as a campaign cost If the rules of the campaign are that only one sense is normally targeting then that is the only one you have to pay a premium to foil' date=' even if other senses CAn be targeting.[/quote']

 

Good way to look at it.

 

Essentially you're paying to work against what no one has to pay points for.

[Thia Halmades]

Re: Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

 

Or more simply put: most people don't purchase additional senses as targeting. Hence, in most cases, you don't need to be invisible to them for that purpose. However, some SFX suggest you want to be, and in the event someone (a dog) did flip a non targeting sense (taste/smell) to a targeting sense, you'll still be invisible to it. They paid points to target you even if blind.

 

You paid points to say "Nah nah."

[casualplayer]

Re: Invisibility, Shapeshift, and Enhanced Senses

 

I have a problem understanding Invisibility and Shapeshift when it comes to targeting VS non-targeting senses and sense groups.

 

Let me explain...

 

According to the book, the only sense group that is automatically targeting is the sight group. So if I want to be invisible to sight I need to pay the points for "Targeting Sense Group".

 

The hearing group is listed as a non-targeting group, so it would make sense to buy my invisibility to all hearing as "Non-targeting Sense Group".

 

But what happens if someone is playing Dog-man, and has targeting hearing? I payed to be invisible to the entire hearing group. Which power trumps?

 

If I want to be truly invisible to all all sight and hearing, do I need to buy both as targeting groups, even though targeting hearing is almost unheard of?

 

The same thing goes for shapeshift.

 

The book says that a voice modulator (voice changer) should be bought as Images, but a voice synthesizer (a device that makes its own voice) should be shapeshift.

 

If my character has a voice synthesizer (effectively the character thinks something and the machine speaks it for him, the character never actually talks), and the power is bought as Shapeshift: hearing group (non-targeting), how will this interact with targeting hearing? Should the power be bought as "Targeting group"?

 

You're not having any problems understanding; three powers that should resolve similarly, sadly, don't. Here's hoping Sixth fixes this.

 

Non-Targeting senses only allow you to Detect/Sense proximity but not position, distance, intensity, etc. You could respond but you are still "firing blind" and, without Targeting, you never have the option of avoiding the OCV penalties. Targeting makes a Detect/Sense vastly superior, on par with Discriminatory. Strictly speaking Hearing should be Targeting, although the PER roll should be difficult. If you can triangulate you can target and as long as you have two functioning ears you can triangulate.

 

The rules are confusing and conflicting. Go with what works for you.