Magic System for review and comment

[eepjr24]

Some of you may have seen this before, it has been revised mostly on further consideration and several tips from the new FH tome. I am especially interested in comments about the LTE rules and if anyone has had luck with them. Thanks.

 

Rhyssin Magic:

 

Background

 

Magic is a force in the world, approaching equality with force of arms. It is also somewhat in infancy, so new discoveries are very possible. PC Mages can be among the most powerful spell casters given time, as the magic of the world appears to be slowly increasing. Magic comes from the gods, either directly (priests/champions granted powers) or indirectly

(mage channeling the energy/essence available around them). Magic can and is used for good or evil, but is in and of itself neutral. Magic can be instilled into objects, but the effort and learning to do so will seldom, if ever, be available to the PC (exceptions may be made for alchemists).

 

Restricted Effects

 

There are no effects that are explicitly forbidden, however most mages will specialize their magic. Thus a light mage, or fire mage, or even a mirror mage would be known, but a jack-of-all-trades is nearly unknown. Most mages have between 1 and 3 specialties.

 

Casting Requirements and Restrictions

 

1. Most spells cost long term End (see chart). This represents the difficulty of channeling magic. Regular long term End rules apply to all spells, as well. Spells may be bought with Reduced or 0 End Cost. If they require End, they may be powered either from personal End or an End Reserve. Because of the above, most casters are in good physical health and have high endurance. Rhyssin has few fat mages.

 

AP <= 10 - 0 LTE

AP > 10 and AP+RP <= 25 - 1 LTE

AP+RP > 25 and AP+RP <= 40 - 2 LTE

AP+RP > 40 and AP+RP <= 55 - 3 LTE

AP+RP > 55 and AP+RP <= 70 - 4 LTE

etc.

 

2. Active cost is limited to primary casting stat (normally INT or EGO) times 2. This also applies to VPP and MP reserves. This can be exceeded with GM permission, usually at double cost above the limit.

 

3. All Divine magic is bought as powers, with charges. All Divine magic is granted directly by the gods or their avatars (new spells are granted after prayer and fasting sessions). Divine magic does not fall under the remainder of the restrictions listed here.

 

4. All non-divine magic must come from a VPP or a MP. The base time to change spells (from a known spell to another known spell) in a VPP is 5 minutes.

 

5. All magic must have the limitation "Requires Magic Skill Roll". This limitation is worth -1/2 on both the VPP control and spell costs.

 

6. A "specialized" magic skill roll costs 2 points as a general skill or 3 points if based on Ego/Int. It costs 2 points per +1 skill level to increase. A character can have any number specific magic skill rolls to represent their areas of knowledge. This skill can be used to create cantrip type effects and possibly modify spell results.

 

7. Each DEF of real armor above DEF 2 gives a -1 to skill roll. You can buy a "Cast in Armor" penalty skill levels, which will allow you offset this penalty by 1 for every 3 points you spend. Magic armor without the limitations "Real Armor" and "Mass" does not count toward this penalty.

 

8. All spells require research before casting. A 1 point perk per spell must be purchased as evidence of success in this research.

 

9. Standard research time for a spell is 1 week. This can be moved up or down the time chart for a -1/+1 magic skill roll. Spells which differ only slightly from a known spell (different SFX, add advantage, take away limitation, change dice size) will be moved down the time chart once for free.

 

10. All spell casting must be declared at the begining of the phase, before anyone acts. If the caster is Con stunned before thier Dex or the end of the phase (if "Full Phase"), the spell automatically fails. If they take stun, but no body they receive a -2 to their magic roll. If they take any body, they receive a -4 to their magic roll.

 

11. A mage cannot maintain more than INT/5 spells at any given time.

 

12. All spells have either a verbal (incantations), somatic (gestures), or material (focus, expendable or otherwise) as a requirement to cast the spell.

The exception to rule 12 is:

In lieu of the above, a mage may take a special focus (OAF) that must be used for all their spells. This item will be very valuable to the mage and extremely difficult to replace. All magic the caster uses comes from this focus, and it is obvious to even the uninitiated that this is the source of the mages power. This type of mage receives a -1 limitation for VPP control and spell costs.

 

- Ernie

[Guest Keneton]

1. Background: Well written

2. Restricted Effects: Well written but I do not understand why a person could not learn skills from multiple magic types or colleges.

3. Casting requirements and restrictions. .

 

*Long term end does not work this way. Why go through these machinations to make it cost less than it does by the rules?e obviosly limiting wizards harshly, but these LTE rules are far more confusing and arbutrary than the core rules for no good reason (that I can see so far:) )

 

*The limit on active points is harsh, allowing no mega spells or any powerful effects like transform or powers with stacked advantages. This must be a very low fantasy world, butif that is the flavor you are into-it will work and is a clean and simpe rule.

 

*Clerics will be far more powerful than wizrds by these rules.

 

* Everyone will use a multipower, cheaper and without the silly 5 minute thing. Even with stacking, youll have to place at least -2 to -3 lim on spells to stack more than 3 spells in a 40 point power pool. Remember your active point limit! You could for example have two real cost 10, one real cost 8 and one real cost 12. See these requier huge lims for 40 active point powers. This is over and above what you require as lims on the base of the VPP. Where would they come from?

 

*Is the skill require for casting multipower spells or for the control of the VPP? If not why allow it tobe used for various effects. As for cantrips the wizards here are already casting cantrips.

 

*Regarding armor this is fair but once again very harsh.

 

*The research is brutal costing as much as a slot in the multipower. Remember the active poiints cost. Are you wanting everyone to play a fighter? This is overly restrictive ad jsut to build a starting wizard with a VPP in your sytem looks like it would csot 200+ points so far!

 

*Why monkey with when you declare. Do all of the non wizrds have precognition and know what a wizard is doing before his dex in the phase. You are messing with core mechanics here. This destroys aborts and all sorts of things. With other lims like gestures and incants, it is easy enough to spoil a spell. Dont make it impossible to play a chracter mechanically.

 

*As for the limit of Int/5 by your sytem is is unlikely taht any wizard could even have that many spells up due to the VPP active point limits. Clerics on the other hand can have tons of continuing charges rolling!

 

*Now that youve mentioned gestures and incants as required, go back and get rid of the damage rules from point #10. With these lims if they take damage at all the spell is spoiled.

 

I am not trying to sound overly critical. You seem to have a good grasp on most mechanics, but this iis way too harsh. I have run Hero adventures for years and I am trying to help. Consider allowing wizards a few breaks. Most of this is overkill. The limitations will limit on their own. Watch and see, trust Seve and the core rules. There are years of playtesting ahead.

 

Good luck on your campaign.

 

 

[Polaris]

Clarification

 

Sorry to interrupt the comments, but I have a quick question of clarification: What is a "cantrip"??

 

Polaris

[eepjr24]

Cantrip

 

A small spell, usually of small or no combat value.

 

Possible Examples:

 

Blowing colored smoke rings, or creating whimsical shapes in blown smoke

Tapping someone on the shoulder with telekenisis.

Lighting a candle with a gesture.

 

It will be defined in the campaign as a minor effect not worth points in a area which the mage knows at least one spell.

 

- E

[eepjr24]

Originally posted by Keneton

1. Background: Well written

2. Restricted Effects: Well written but I do not understand why a person could not learn skills from multiple magic types or colleges.

 

They can learn as many as they like, just not grouped under a single "Magic" skill roll. I thought that was clear, I will reword it.

 

3. Casting requirements and restrictions. .

 

*Long term end does not work this way. Why go through these machinations to make it cost less than it does by the rules?e obviosly limiting wizards harshly, but these LTE rules are far more confusing and arbutrary than the core rules for no good reason (that I can see so far:) )

 

Long term end is suggested in FREd as being very effective at keeping mages from blasting away all day with spells. (pg 286) I was disappointed that none of the systems in FH took this route, so I rolled it into my own.

 

I want a system that allows casters a limited number of casts per day, varied by the active points of the spells they use and how limited they are. I understand your confusion but the players will not have to track this at all. I will let them know when they start to become exhausted from casting. If they wish, I will share the basics of the chart with them.

 

That said, if you have a better mechanic for accomplishing this effect, I am all ears. And in case it was not clear, the LTE applies to all casters, not just mages. And lastly, fighters will be playing with LTE in this campaign as well.

 

*The limit on active points is harsh, allowing no mega spells or any powerful effects like transform or powers with stacked advantages. This must be a very low fantasy world, butif that is the flavor you are into-it will work and is a clean and simpe rule.

 

In light of some other changes made in the system, you are probably right. What do you think of 3x prim stat? Or to encourage diversity, 2x (EGO + INT)?

 

*Clerics will be far more powerful than wizrds by these rules.

 

Could you give me a sample of why you think so? I would think that having no power frameworks available would even the playing field quite well.

 

* Everyone will use a multipower, cheaper and without the silly 5 minute thing. Even with stacking, youll have to place at least -2 to -3 lim on spells to stack more than 3 spells in a 40 point power pool. Remember your active point limit! You could for example have two real cost 10, one real cost 8 and one real cost 12. See these requier huge lims for 40 active point powers. This is over and above what you require as lims on the base of the VPP. Where would they come from?

 

I will agree that this system will favor high limitations being placed on spells. That is my intent. If you have 3 spells in your pool of 40 AP each, with -2 in lims on each one, you fall in the limits. It is not hard in a fantasy arena to achieve -3 or more in lims, especially with extra endurance which will be encouraged. Also of note that I will not be capping INT or EGO at 20, as long as players can pay the x2.

 

*Is the skill require for casting multipower spells or for the control of the VPP? If not why allow it tobe used for various effects. As for cantrips the wizards here are already casting cantrips.

 

I am not sure I have what you are asking here. If you mean, "Can a player use his Fire Magic 15- to change his VPP for fire based spells", the answer is yes. Please restate if that was not what you meant.

 

*Regarding armor this is fair but once again very harsh.

 

I can live with harsh to keep most mages out of heavy armor.

 

*The research is brutal costing as much as a slot in the multipower. Remember the active poiints cost. Are you wanting everyone to play a fighter? This is overly restrictive ad jsut to build a starting wizard with a VPP in your sytem looks like it would csot 200+ points so far!

 

Hrm. Okay. I may drop this, I will model some characters for several styles of mages and see how it works. I did that once before but the system has gone through extensive changes. The time for research will stay. I may make it a 0 point perk.

 

*Why monkey with when you declare. Do all of the non wizrds have precognition and know what a wizard is doing before his dex in the phase. You are messing with core mechanics here. This destroys aborts and all sorts of things. With other lims like gestures and incants, it is easy enough to spoil a spell. Dont make it impossible to play a chracter mechanically.

 

I will seriously consider this one. I had some ideas in mind when I created this that aren't playing out well now with my changes.

 

*As for the limit of Int/5 by your sytem is is unlikely taht any wizard could even have that many spells up due to the VPP active point limits. Clerics on the other hand can have tons of continuing charges rolling!

 

Thanks for the idea on continuing charges. I will look at those and see if I need to address it. The simultaneous rule may prevent it from being a problem.

 

*Now that youve mentioned gestures and incants as required, go back and get rid of the damage rules from point #10. With these lims if they take damage at all the spell is spoiled.

 

See above.

I am not trying to sound overly critical. You seem to have a good grasp on most mechanics, but this iis way too harsh. I have run Hero adventures for years and I am trying to help. Consider allowing wizards a few breaks. Most of this is overkill. The limitations will limit on their own. Watch and see, trust Seve and the core rules. There are years of playtesting ahead.

 

I have run it for a bit. My problem is I am rusty, have not run anything in a couple years, so I will look things over again and do some basic combat sequences and such.

 

- Ernie

[Guest Keneton]

Good Sport!

 

Ernie.

 

You are a good sport and a fast learner. You will do fine. I am galsd you took my comments for what they were menat for, constructive work..What I meant by LTE is that you should re-read this section in FRED. After doing so you can ditch the chart and make your life easy. This will also make moer time for you creating some spells.

 

VPP's are the main problem here. With allowing Multipowers to wizards, and the lims you have suggested, you are already nice and fair.

 

VPP's are not very good for this type of fantasy. Since you are mandating gestures, incants, probably the new spell limitation, and likely concentrate 1/2 DCV you are already at -1 1/4. To get to three to allow effective use of VPP will be quite hard. There is aslo no resson to do so as for the multipower slots the lims you have made mandatory will be sufficient to make each slot 1 point. This will make the multipower mage under your sytem abot 4 times less costly and hence way more powerful.

 

If you allow the VPP with less restrictions it becomes viable, but as is it will be the ugly stepchild of power frameworks.

 

Thanks agian for a fascinating chat.