Money Perk

[Trebuchet]

Re: Money Perk

 

After looking at the Money Perk' date=' I have a question - does it represent having a job or just income of any sort? And if it is for any income would a Disadvantage be appropriate to show the restrictions a character with a job would have on his free time for adventuring, etc.[/quote']We've always assumed a PC has a job or income unless he states otherwise. Wealth represents something above median/disposable income just as you can take a Disad to represent being below that level.

 

Everyone on our supers team MidGuard pulls down $100K+; only one PC has Wealth. Everyone has a job; most for the philanthropic organization which secretly funds and supports our team.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Money Perk

 

You could invest part of the wealth in income generating ventures. You can decide if they are low' date=' medium or high risk. Roll 3d6 and that is the percentage income for a low risk venture. Roll a 3 and lose the wealth. For a medium risk, double the percentage income but lose the wealth on a 3 or 4, and for high risk, triple the percentage income but lose th ewealth on a 3, 4 or 5. You can concert investment capital back to wealth very quickly if you need to.[/quote']

 

Complete aside but WHERE ARE YOU INVESTING? A completely liquid investment that generates an average return above 10% with minimal risk? I'll split my capital in 20 and buy 20 high risk ventures. Even if I'm unlucky and lose 20% of my capital, the other 16 ventures return 480% x 80% of my capital.

 

Probably a good starting point for Venture Capital Hero, though.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Money Perk

 

Complete aside but WHERE ARE YOU INVESTING? A completely liquid investment that generates an average return above 10% with minimal risk? I'll split my capital in 20 and buy 20 high risk ventures. Even if I'm unlucky and lose 20% of my capital, the other 16 ventures return 480% x 80% of my capital.

 

Probably a good starting point for Venture Capital Hero, though.

 

Oh I'm not saying it is not generous, but it is relatively simple. The idea was that the % return is annual, not instant. So a 10-30% (on average) annual return (income) based on risk - you'd never get near 480%. You'd be getting an average of 31.5% of your capital as high risk income (still pretty good, I have to concede) with a 4.5% chance of losing the capital of each investment.

 

That would mean that for your 20 high risk investments you lose 1 and make 30% on 19: for 20X$1000 you make $5985 annually and lose $1000, on average, an annual income of $4985 on $20000.

 

If that needs tweaking, double the number for losing the investment, so 1x3d6% income you lose on 3 or 4 (2% chance), 2x3d6% you lose on 3 to 6 (nearly 10% chance) and 3x3d6% you lose on 3 to 8 (over 25% chance).

 

That would mean that for your 20 high risk investments you lose 5 and make 30% on 15: for 20X$1000 you make $4500 annually and lose $5000, on average. That would be a loss of $500 on average (splitting your investment makes no senses for a high risk venture - you might as well put all your eggs in one basket and win or lose big).

 

Like I said - simply too much work for a lot of games, but if you have a financial/trading aspect to your games then it could be an interesting approach.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Money Perk

 

Oh I'm not saying it is not generous' date=' but it is relatively simple. The idea was that the % return is annual, not instant. So a 10-30% (on average) annual return (income) based on risk - you'd never get near 480%. You'd be getting an average of 31.5% of your capital as high risk income (still pretty good, I have to concede) with a 4.5% chance of losing the capital of each investment.[/quote']

 

Do you know of any virtually risk-free investments that generate a 10% annual return? If I were to go so far into such a structure, I'd want something that focuses a bit more on realism.

 

That would mean that for your 20 high risk investments you lose 1 and make 30% on 19: for 20X$1000 you make $5985 annually and lose $1000' date=' on average, an annual income of $4985 on $20000.[/quote']

 

The diversification has turned "risky" into almost 25% annual return with pretty limited volatility, hasn't it?

 

If that needs tweaking, double the number for losing the investment, so 1x3d6% income you lose on 3 or 4 (2% chance), 2x3d6% you lose on 3 to 6 (nearly 10% chance) and 3x3d6% you lose on 3 to 8 (over 25% chance).

 

That would mean that for your 20 high risk investments you lose 5 and make 30% on 15: for 20X$1000 you make $4500 annually and lose $5000, on average. That would be a loss of $500 on average (splitting your investment makes no senses for a high risk venture - you might as well put all your eggs in one basket and win or lose big).

 

In the real world, diversification does work. And a 10% annual return in pretty much perfect safety is still a great deal. But the only thing this proves is any such system would need some playtesting and, like you, I'm not eager enough to implements such a structure to put all the effort into testing it.

 

Get out a Stock Ticker game and let the players invest through that!

 

Like I said - simply too much work for a lot of games' date=' but if you have a financial/trading aspect to your games then it could be an interesting approach.[/quote']

 

Yup - too much work until there's a good reason to do it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Money Perk

 

Do you know of any virtually risk-free investments that generate a 10% annual return? If I were to go so far into such a structure, I'd want something that focuses a bit more on realism.

 

.......................

 

Yup - too much work until there's a good reason to do it.

 

Hugh, mate, this is an ad hoc idea that someone might be interested in developing, as many of my suggestions are, not a thought through system designed to simulate financial investment markets. You don't like the risk to return ratios, you tweak the numbers.

 

Like I said in both posts, there will be a limited sort of game where this is worth developing at all, or, more like, a limited group of players it is worth developing for. Run a trading game, say where you are a group running a small 'Firefly' type spaceship, or a privateer frigate in the 16th century, or even a cyberpunk game where money is the prime motivator for much of the game, and better wealth rules are essential - the ones we have are incredibly simplistic (not a criticism as such - generally money is not something you worry too much about in RPGs).

 

In that sort of case, and indeed, thinking about it, in the case of someone asking 'do I need to ahve a job to earn this wealth', it might be sensible to assume wealth is capital rather than income, and work from there.

[Mirgos]

Re: Money Perk

 

Not 100% sure - been a while since I looked - but doesn't Call of Cthulhu handle wealth with a single roll & then divides that up into percentages of cash, property, investments, etc?