Ultimate Adaptation

[kridenow]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

Thanks for the link ! I'm reading the thoughts and options presented there.

 

Yes, being adapted might require more than simply Life Support and Defenses, I agree ("so you can survive high pressure and don't need to breath. Great. How do you feel now down the Mariana Trench ? Not lonely I hope ?").

But, I left aside the other potential "side features" to focus first on basics

 

One could also wonder how to adapt to a long fall... bracing and strengthening while waiting for impact ? Or grow wings ? But it's more a concept discussion (even if the concept would determine the rules options).

I actually started with a concept quite close to the one you presented and changed it to reduce it to a personal survival ability.

But, yes, it comes with probably unexpected "flaws" as the power would only ensure the survival of the person, not helping to overcome difficulties which, indirectly, could cause problems or more dangers.

So given a cycle of changing hostile conditions or an extreme situation, the power would make the body adapt and change as well as long as danger is there. But it wouldn't make the NPC get even a related ability allowing to break out of the cycle or escape (which could, curiously, even be seen as a way to torture the NPC...).

Hence the Mariana Trench comment. Or you can also send the NPC drifting in space... surviving the cosmic rays, the radiations, the cold, the low pressure, the lack of air, of food and water... until he dies of old age (unless you also give some immunity to aging then it's a perpetual gaze to the stars).

 

Still, interestingly, yesterday evening, I opened the Ultimate Metamorph...

[nexus]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

What I'm saying is the changing would just be a sfx and aspect of the limitation.

 

For example (lets assume the character can use one set of enviormental powers at a time for simplicity's sake) Adapto is in the in the arctic so he's using LS: Extreme Cold and +20 ED armor against the Cold based attacks. He's suddenly teleported into the desert and "adapts" to it so it's using LS: Extreme heat and his +20 ED Armor is now against heat based attack regardless of if he had a active Phase that segmented or not instantly. There is no period of vulnerability but if a cold (or radiation or whatever) type of attack was used aginst him in the desert he wouldn't be adapted to it so would take normal damage or would his powers switch resist that and he'd no longer be adapted to the desert enviorment?

[kridenow]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

For example (lets assume the character can use one set of enviormental powers at a time for simplicity's sake) Adapto is in the in the arctic so he's using LS: Extreme Cold and +20 ED armor against the Cold based attacks. He's suddenly teleported into the desert and "adapts" to it so it's using LS: Extreme heat and his +20 ED Armor is now against heat based attack regardless of if he had a active Phase that segmented or not instantly. There is no period of vulnerability but if a cold (or radiation or whatever) type of attack was used aginst him in the desert he wouldn't be adapted to it so would take normal damage or would his powers switch resist that and he'd no longer be adapted to the desert enviorment?

 

Ok, I get what you mean now.

However, it works only for Defenses because they are not tied to a type of attack (ED works against cold or fire EB equally).

But, going from the arctic to the desert has an impact on how LS protect the character or not.

The NPC is going from immunity to frostburn to immunity to sunburn. However, if the LS change kicks in only at the NPC phase, it can leave the NPC still protected from frostburn while already in the desert.

Against attacks, you are right and the moment of the change doesn't matter since the ED would apply against cold EB as well as against heat EB.

 

It could, still, matter even for defenses if the NPC is able to balance PD and ED depending on the threats.

Shoot a hail of bullets and PD is raised (while ED is lowered to compensate the Active Points now invested in PD).

Then the character is shot with a heat EB.

So with variable settings for PD/ED, there is also the question of "when does this happen ?".

[nexus]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

His Life support would have a limitation on how many would could apply at the same time as Limited Power. The Life Support Powers are already "on". He doesn't have to change have a phase to change them if they're brought normally (outside a Multipower or VPP framework) just sometimes they are not applicable due to the limitation but they aren't "Turned off" and need a 0 Phase action to activate.

 

But I get the impression from your earlier post I get the impression the character can adapt to more than just environmental threats (heat, cold, high pressure, high gravity, lack of air, etc) but about anything (bullets were mentioned)? That adds wrinkles. Also I think I asked earlier, does the character just resist the potential damage from the his surroundings or does he gain new abilities to completely compensate for it in every way? If its the latter, then a VPP (at least for those additional powers) would work better. You'd probably want to be a Trigger on it (enters dangerous environment) that resets automatically. Expensive but it's an NPC. Some penalty skill levels Only to offset environmental modifiers could help too if you don't want to put Talents in a Framework.

[kridenow]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

I didn't mention that often the "resist to attacks" side of the power because either it can be handled in a simpler way either because it has the same base problem than Life Support (which I found... more representing there).

 

The adaptation to extreme environment might be also seen as an ability to sustain some forms of attacks. If the character can endure extreme heat, can't a Fire/Heat EB be resisted ? If you can't crush the NPC with extreme pressure, can a hit from a baseball bat hurt ?

 

The ability to redistribute Active Points in appropriate combinations of LS and defenses is the core theme. The more flexible, the better it fits.

 

Let's say the character is suffering from shots of Fire EB, phase after phase. The power gives a ED able to decently protect against the attacks.

Then the Fire EB bombardment stops and several crazy environmental conditions happen at once.

ED drops to zero (no longer need to protect against an attack) and Active Points are now invested in as many LS types as needed (or possible).

A bit later, the environmental conditions change again (so the LS distribution changes too) and the Fire EB bombardment restart. Some Active Points are diverted from LS to ED.

(there, the power is limited by the number of different dangerous sources, it can and will be overwhelmed, that's part of the theme).

 

So...

Using an Armor for the defenses is a solution. However, it doesn't allow to redistribute points between ED and PD if needed.

It doesn't allow the Active Points to be poured into LS types if needed.

 

A multipower can manage the LS types.

It doesn't allow to counter alien/crazy/extra-dimensional environment change, according to the rules, since those conditions can't be bought. But some handwave and lack of rules lawyering can easily be tolerated there.

 

If I understand well your earlier proposal, it could be done by having all LS types and a limitation (on them all) allowing only a certain number to be used at once ?

That would be like a multipower, no ? (or I'm wrong, not an impossible event). Save you have a fixed limit while the multipower limit is the Active Points you can distribute.

 

I just gave a look to the Multiform option (following the link provided above).

It sounds to be a good candidate since it allows to redistribute your abilities.

However, multiform, strictly speaking, implies a number of pre-set "forms" (the NPC but adapted to ) so is limited by nature.

Of course, you can prepare a large number of pre-set "adapted configurations" (that would have to be done whatever the rule solution) and then go with it. Should the preparation complete enough, it can cover most of the cases.

But I need to read more (and again) about multiform.

Multiform VPP was mentioned. I admit I have trouble to see how the two can combine unless you want to fully, totally redo the character. I just need a redistribution of the Active Points in LS and Defenses so VPP looks enough (Multiform would be nice if the attributes were changing too, however. It's a good idea to remember)

[D. Guss Tibus]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

I tried to build a similar concept recently (http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69054) and came to the conclusion a Multiform VPP might be the way to go. Just prebuild a bunch of slots for various environments (space, underwater, underground, in lava, while falling, ect.), so the game isn't slowed down. My reasoning was this; as I thought out the concept more and more, I decided I wanted to define Adaptation as more than just survival. I wanted it to include the ability to act normally in the hostile environment also. I chose to define Adaptation as the following:

 

Life Support - Obviously.

 

Environmental Movement - I have adapted to the cold...now if I could only stop slipping on this ice! (Talents can't go into a Framework but can be taken on a Multiform)

 

Damage Reduction - with the Set Effect Limitation. As above, extra Armor would do the same trick but if your villain already has high defenses a few levels of Armor could make him invulnerable to the attack (which is no fun for players).

 

various Movement Powers - Breathing underwater isn't as useful if you only have 2" of Swimming. Also I think adapting to an underground environment should include some Tunneling.

 

various Enhances Senses - I would say your an Adaptation Power is kinda weak if you can't adapt to someone turning the lights off. (Special Powers also cannot go into Frameworks but again Multiform would cover all your Senses)

 

I hope this helps a bit.

 

I'm sure he'll give himslef permision. :D

[Doc Samson]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

I posted a character with the Adaptation Power. On a whim I decided to do it without a Multiform VPP. Here is what I did.

 

20 Adaptation: Elemental Control, 50-point powers, (25 Active Points); all slots Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4)

 

23 1) Force Field (10 PD/10 ED/20 Power Defense), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (60 Active Points); Variable Limitations (requires -1/2 worth of Limitations; Only Works Against Limited Types Of Attack; -1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) 0

 

17 2) Life Support (Eating: Character does not eat; Immunity All terrestrial poisons and chemical warfare agents; Immunity: All terrestrial diseases and biowarfare agents; Longevity: Immortal; Safe in High Pressure; Safe in High Radiation; Safe in Intense Cold; Safe in Intense Heat; Safe in Low Pressure/Vacuum; Self-Contained Breathing; Sleeping: Character does not sleep) (50 Active Points); Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) 5

 

17 3) Succor 3d6+1, any Sense power one at a time (+1/4), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action, Trigger requires a Zero Phase Action to reset; +1/2), Can Apply (Remove) Adders (+1) (55 Active Points); Self Only (-1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) 0

 

20 4) Tunneling 8" through 8 DEF material, Usable As Flight (+1/4), Usable As Swimming (+1/4) (60 Active Points); Limited Medium (soil and rock only) (-1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) 6

 

2 Environmental Movement (Aquatic Movement) (3 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Visible (-1/4)

1 Environmental Movement (Icewalking); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Visible (-1/4)

2 Environmental Movement (I Can Drunk Just As Good Fight!) (3 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Visible (-1/4)

2 Environmental Movement (Supreme Balance) (3 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Visible (-1/4)

3 Environmental Movement (Zero-G Training) (4 Active Points); Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4), Visible (-1/4)

[kridenow]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

An interesting view, thanks for posting here (I'm always interested to see powers constructions).

 

Just asking... Why did you go for a 0 END Force Field & Succor when you put a Cost END for the LS serie ?

[Doc Samson]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

An interesting view, thanks for posting here (I'm always interested to see powers constructions).

 

Just asking... Why did you go for a 0 END Force Field & Succor when you put a Cost END for the LS serie ?

I would have preferred not to have an END cost on anything but I had to put Costs END on the LS to get it to go into the Framework (Only Powers that cost END can go into an Elemental Control. Powers that already cost END may have Reduced END but you can't take Costs END and Reduced END on the same Power).

[rjcurrie]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

Buy the limited defenses and all appropriate life support options and put a limitation on each of them (including the limited defenses). Probably something like:

Only 3 "adaptation" powers may be active at once -1/4

I chose -1/4 because I think there will be few situations where the character will need more than that. Others may disagree.

 

Other limitations may be appropriate once you decide how the power works. For example, if the character's adaptation doesn't occur until the character has been damaged by the environment, then a trigger limitation may also be appropriate.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

I would have preferred not to have an END cost on anything but I had to put Costs END on the LS to get it to go into the Framework (Only Powers that cost END can go into an Elemental Control. Powers that already cost END may have Reduced END but you can't take Costs END and Reduced END on the same Power).

 

Or the GM can grant permission to put appropriate 0 END powers in the Elemental Control.

[kridenow]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

(Only Powers that cost END can go into an Elemental Control. Powers that already cost END may have Reduced END but you can't take Costs END and Reduced END on the same Power)

 

(I leave an END cost on every power in EC frameworks but it's another topic )

 

20 4) Tunneling 8" through 8 DEF material, Usable As Flight (+1/4), Usable As Swimming (+1/4) (60 Active Points); Limited Medium (soil and rock only) (-1/2), Only In Heroic Identity (-1/4) 6

 

I guess this is your take on the "adapt to get out of every situation" power ?

Interpreted in game as growings wings, claws, fins and gills or whatever at will ?

I never think about putting Usable as... in movement powers that way. It's a smart build.

[kridenow]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

Or the GM can grant permission to put appropriate 0 END powers in the Elementatl Control.

 

That was also my thought

Considering two powers are already have decreased to 0 END cost, I'd have authorized on them all.

 

It would also look odd to be able to raise the "force field" but not any LS because of a lack of END (even if it's only on activation). It can happen, still, even if rarely.

[kridenow]

Re: Ultimate Adaptation

 

Buy the limited defenses and all appropriate life support options and put a limitation on each of them (including the limited defenses). Probably something like:

Only 3 "adaptation" powers may be active at once -1/4

I chose -1/4 because I think there will be few situations where the character will need more than that. Others may disagree.

 

Other limitations may be appropriate once you decide how the power works. For example, if the character's adaptation doesn't occur until the character has been damaged by the environment, then a trigger limitation may also be appropriate.

 

I guess the Trigger would have to go in. Since I want a reflexive power, not consciously controlled.

I guess it also solves my (little) dilemna about "when" the adaptation occurs.