Aid as a weapon

[Blackberry]

I'm building a villain with generic manipulation powers.

 

One thing he can do is affect mutants quite dramatically: he could disable a certain power in their gene sequence. He can also mutate them further and cause radical things to happen with their powers -- turn up one of their powers to a point where they lose control of it.

 

Aid to any one mutant power the target has is clear, but how to add Uncontrolled to it? Mind Control based on CON? Transform from a mutant in control of their powers to a mutant not in control of their powers?

 

VPP only to build powers fitting a target's mutant abilities, only to build powers Usable As Attack, only usable on mutants (which the villain is not)?

[Mr. Gridlock]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

I would go with Transforms my self. That way you could "bestow" various Limitations such as:

 

Activation Rolls

Always On

Uncontrollable, etc.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

That's a tricky thing, really. Adjustment powers can't add or subtract Advantages/Disadvantages, only adders.

 

Hm. I know. I have neither books nor HD handy, so you'll have to do the math and refine it on your own, but here's the idea:

 

Aid, Xd6, All Mutant Powers at Once (+2)

 

Naked Modifier, Limited/No Conscious Control (+Y), Usable As An Attack (+1), to All Powers at Once (+2), Continuing Charges/0 END Uncontrolled, for up to Z Actives.

 

Put X at whatever you want, and put Y at whatever the normal disadvantage for L/NCC is. Z, of course, should be something impressive, so that the character can only use a very low amount of their power at best. Link one to the other in order to reduce the cost and give the 'totally screwed' effect.

 

Alternate to L/NCC, use 'Requires EGO Roll, -1/5 Actives' and 'Side F/X (Power goes NCC for full Phase)' instead -- or 'Always On' plus 'Beam/Must Be Used At Full' if you really want to be mean. Stick 'em into a MPow in order to use the best function on any particular target.

 

If this is meant to be a permanent/seriously long-term alteration, however (such as what Loki did to Iceman in the long-ago), you're probably looking at a Transform to adjust the character's Powers completely.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

As a GM (often) I'd have two problems with this power.

 

1. It requires a lot of GM imagination to come up with interesting ways for the power to not work properly and

 

2. That's it, really.

 

I am always happier with a more defined power. Something like this:

 

Transfer END to Mutant power: the power uses the target's END to increase the ability of their mutant powers. Eventually - well, probably quite quickly actually, they will become exhausted - they mave massive abilities but no energy to use them. You could even go for a transfer END/STUN/BODY to powers, so they become increasingly fragile, and the sfx of the last Body point being drained would be their powers overload and they die.

 

The power could be beneficial to allies - perhaps - if used in moderation - and is dangerous to use against opponents because - until they do fall over they are even more powerful - but it sounds like fun

[Blackberry]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

I adore the Transfer END to Powers idea. I've been playing HERO for 20 years and never considered a Transfer where the user of the Transfer is not the recipient. Would you consider that a -0 Limitation if he can't be the Transfer beneficiary?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

I adore the Transfer END to Powers idea. I've been playing HERO for 20 years and never considered a Transfer where the user of the Transfer is not the recipient. Would you consider that a -0 Limitation if he can't be the Transfer beneficiary?

 

Thank you

 

I'm fluffing a bit: technically you have to be the recipient unless, presumably, you buy it with UBO, but I'd certainly allow it as a -0, maybe even a bit more of a limitation as you are really just adjusting a target's powers both up and down. I might be persuaded to allow -1/2.

[Blackberry]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

And would it require buying Range twice -- once to make the subject of the Transfer ranged, and one to make the object of the Transfer ranged, since I think that's usually self only?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

Hold on, lets rewind the tape.

 

Reasoning from effects, what you are really saying is:

 

I have a villain who is able to amplify other characters powers to the point that they work in an undesirable fashion. The effects must be appropriate for the powers modified, the villain doesnt directly control either the nature of the altered power or their activation.

 

 

No power / ability in the HERO System does this natively. However, can it be modeled regardless?

 

 

Yes.

 

Option 1: Transform to actually modify a target character at the mechanical level using the rules for adding abilities via Transform, with a reasonable Heal Back condition (whatever fits your concept). Limitations defining that the Transform can only effectively alter an existing power are applicable. Personally, I would define the limitation so that the Transform cannot change the REAL COST of the targeted power -- so if you want to add a lim to an existing power (like Activation and / or Side Effects, etc), you would have to put more AP into it to compensate either with base effect or countervailing advantages.

 

Example: a 12d6 EB with a RC of 60 is altered to add Side Effects at the -1/2 level; to keep its RC the same to comply with the Lim effect either +1/2 in Advantages (maybe Explosive for example) or +3d6 or some variation thereof must be added.

 

 

Option 2: Multiform Usable As Attack with a Lim defined only to "change" the target into a version of themselves with funked up versions of their Powers. What constitutes a reasonable defense I leave to your discretion.

 

 

Basically the same net effect. The Transform is more persistent shy of its Heal Back condition being met, but is harder to bring into effect. The Multiform UBA is faster to onset but is more easily turned off; however those having the defined UBA defense are simply immune to it outright.

 

 

I would go with the Transform option, personally, but would think carefully about using such a villain for a very simple reason --> it is time consuming to alter characters in play. If I used such a character I would pre-make "altered" write ups for the the PC's and have them handy so that in the event the villain succeeds int altering one or more PC's I wouldn't have to stop the game to sort it all out.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

And would it require buying Range twice -- once to make the subject of the Transfer ranged' date=' and one to make the object of the Transfer ranged, since I think that's usually self only?[/quote']

 

I would let you buy ranged once as the target of both the penalty and bonus are the same and it is, after all, a single power.

 

You could do the same thing with a linked aid/drain if you wanted, and at similar cost: 10 point drain, 10 point aid (linked): 17 points total per 1d6.

 

Transform is the 'right' way to do it, but transfer sounds like it could be interesting, and it just looks cleaner than the drain/aid construct.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

I still prefer mine -- and it has some amount of precedent, considering 'Unluck, UAA'.

[Blackberry]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

I still prefer mine -- and it has some amount of precedent' date=' considering 'Unluck, UAA'.[/quote']

 

I also like yours, and I'll probably give him both. He is THE supervillain in my setting, so he is tough to overcome.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

You could build this as an Aid with side effects that only affect the recipient of the power. That seems like something for nothing in many cases, and I'd be wary of allowing it as a GM, although it is a perfectly legal construct.

[tesuji]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

well color me traditional but...

 

if i want to cause a lamppost to start shooting out its electricity into the surrounding area i dont build a transform lamppost to shocking lamppost or a multiform lampost into hostile being power.

 

i buy the EFFECT.

 

so i would buy an rka electric aoe with a limitation for "must be centered around lamppost or other electrical source.

 

So if i want to be able to have "fireguy's fire powers start erupting, i should buy a fire rka aoe with the lim "must hbe centered on a fireguy"

 

buying "i change the mutant" is sidestepping the effect you wish to cause and buying the sfx.

 

So i would suggest instead -

 

you need a VPP for "mutant powers"

you need a lim on the concost for "only for sfx of their powers run amok" and/or "requires a mutant source"

you would need it to have "no control over what the powers change to" unless you can control the nature of the powers. This way when you fire it off on a target the exact power is up for grabs.

you would likely need a "requires to hit roll vs initial source" but maybe not since most of the effects might already require it.

likely need to choose the "change without phase or skill roll" as i dont think "no control over what" eliminates those requirements"

 

then what happens is the powers in the pool would be whatever effect is needed - area attacks, movement uaa, force walls (as force fields expand), density uaa, etc all with uncontrolled usually possibbly with no end cost persistent and continuous.

 

so the effect you buy is what happens.

the "mutants powers run amok" is just the sfx getting you the rka or eb or "uaa flight out of control" etc.

[Blackberry]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

The copycat VPP is a really cool idea too. Thanks! But it wouldn't necessarily suppress the target's control over their own powers. Linked Drain on whichever power the VPP makes wacky would do it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

Just a thought but a CON based mind control 'push your powers and use them randomly' is also a potential way to build this.

[tesuji]

Re: Aid as a weapon

 

The copycat VPP is a really cool idea too. Thanks! But it wouldn't necessarily suppress the target's control over their own powers. Linked Drain on whichever power the VPP makes wacky would do it.

 

yup if the idea is "they cannot use their powers" then a drain suppress or mind control is also needed.

 

if its just "your flight goes awry" but still "you can use your flight during your phase" thats one thing.