Lift Based on Margin of Success

[Vondy]

I'm starting a side project. Namely, distilling the functions provided by primary characteristics (except damage related functions) into a 3d6 roll based on the bell curve. In other words, all such rolls would be 11- (modified by levels). I may deal with damage related functions as another step later. But, for now, if you wanted a character who could lift a lot, for instance, you would buy levels for your strength rolls. The amount of lift would be based on Margin of Success. To make a distinction between heroic and super-heroic games you could have different charts for Margin of Success results, or institute a maximum MoS. I, however, and not a big mathematician. So, I open the question to herodom assembled: what metrics would you set for these two levels of play in terms of lift and margin of success?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Lift Based on Margin of Success

 

Hmm. I can see a couple of problems. First if everyone makes the same roll, from the same starting point (You start with 11- lift, and success means you can get 100kg off the ground) EITHER each +1* doubles (or each-1 halves) effect - and you get something like you have at present, but horribly volatile OR you have to have a different starting point depending on how many lift levels you have (+2 lift levels would mean a 'base lift of 400kg) and smaller graduations from there - but that is just like having STR anyway, really.

 

The problem to my mind is that the ability to lift is pretty static: i can lift 100kg today? I can do it tomorrow.

 

Any variation near the limit is probably only going to be a few kg either way, rather than any significant percentage of lift capacity.

 

You COULD start with STR, work out max theoretical lift, then each +2 you make it by adds 1 STR, like a complimentary roll (and each 1 you fail by subtracts 1 STR - lifting at capacity is risky)

[Vondy]

Re: Lift Based on Margin of Success

 

Hmm. I can see a couple of problems. First if everyone makes the same roll' date=' from the same starting point (You start with 11- lift, and success means you can get 100kg off the ground) EITHER each +1* doubles (or each-1 halves) effect - and you get something like you have at present, but horribly volatile OR you have to have a different starting point depending on how many lift levels you have (+2 lift levels would mean a 'base lift of 400kg) and smaller graduations from there - but that is just like having STR anyway, really.[/quote']

 

I have an issue with the notion that the bell curve is "volatile." Its actually fairly predictable on a statistical plane. Additionally, I specifically asked what metrics people would apply and proposed that more than one margin of success chart could be implemented based on the margin of success. Why would it necessarily have to be exponential, or double or halve anything? It could be tailored for heroic, cinematic, super-heroic, and cosmic levels of play.

 

The problem to my mind is that the ability to lift is pretty static: i can lift 100kg today? I can do it tomorrow.

 

We already have an explicit statement in the rulebook that there is no reason to roll for routine tasks. In other words, the only time you need to make a strength roll is when you are lifting beyond what you could normally lift. In explicit terms, you can simply allow players to "Take 11." Also, this means that characters with additional strength levels would be able to get consistent results. For instance, let's say Conan's lift roll is 15-. If he were to "take 11" he would consistently have an Margin of Success of +4. Only when he wants to lift even more than that would he need to make a roll.

 

Edit: Another option is to apply negative modifiers based on weight, hence higher rolls would allow consistently higher lifts. For realism purposes you could apply some sort of maxima in terms of how many weight levels one could go up the chart based on genre needs.

 

Any variation near the limit is probably only going to be a few kg either way' date=' rather than any significant percentage of lift capacity.[/quote']

 

This completely depends on what metric you attach to the margin of success. For super-heroic games the difference could be exponential, or at least many tonnes. At the heroic level it may only be 40-50 pounds. The question put forth was: what metric would you attach to it.

 

You COULD start with STR' date=' work out max theoretical lift, then each +2 you make it by adds 1 STR, like a complimentary roll (and each 1 you fail by subtracts 1 STR - lifting at capacity is risky)[/quote']

 

I'm not sure, depending on the metric one chooses to use, that this is dramatically different than what I'm proposing. MoS can have both positive and negative results.

 

Edit 2: Problems do not interest me! Solutions to problems interest me!

[ghost-angel]

Re: Lift Based on Margin of Success

 

I would start with the idea that a Base Roll provides a Base Lift without needing to succeed.

 

This Base Lift would be not the Maximum Lift, but approximately half that.

 

Say, an 11- gets you an absolute maximum of 100kg, anything at 50kg or less, or non-bulky, can be lifted with ease, and without rolling.

 

51-80kg (80%) requires only a successful roll.

 

76+ requires a success of +1/10 kg. To lift the full 100 kg you need to roll 9-, and then you can get it off the ground and not much else. Every success above that will increase the weigh you can lift by some amount, say 10kg.

 

So a normal person can try and lift a 120kg object, but must success by 4 to do so on 11-.

 

Increasing your roll increases your base lift - so the higher your roll the more predictably you can lift heavy objects, the easier it becomes to lift moderately heavy objects, and the better chance you have of lifting very heavy objects.

 

As some thoughts on the subject.

[Vondy]

Re: Lift Based on Margin of Success

 

I would start with the idea that a Base Roll provides a Base Lift without needing to succeed.

 

This Base Lift would be not the Maximum Lift, but approximately half that.

 

Say, an 11- gets you an absolute maximum of 100kg, anything at 50kg or less, or non-bulky, can be lifted with ease, and without rolling.

 

51-80kg (80%) requires only a successful roll.

 

76+ requires a success of +1/10 kg. To lift the full 100 kg you need to roll 9-, and then you can get it off the ground and not much else. Every success above that will increase the weigh you can lift by some amount, say 10kg.

 

So a normal person can try and lift a 120kg object, but must success by 4 to do so on 11-.

 

Increasing your roll increases your base lift - so the higher your roll the more predictably you can lift heavy objects, the easier it becomes to lift moderately heavy objects, and the better chance you have of lifting very heavy objects.

 

As some thoughts on the subject.

 

Thanks. I'm going to fiddle with it.

 

One question:

 

76+ requires a success of +1/10 kg. To lift the full 100 kg you need to roll 9-' date=' and then you can get it off the ground and not much else. Every success above that will increase the weigh you can lift by some amount, say 10kg.[/quote']

 

This part confused me. Is 76+ a weight or a percentage?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Lift Based on Margin of Success

 

Oh sorry, no, that was supposed to be 81kg+

 

I was changing numbers in the middle of my thought process and forgot to make sure I was consistent. Mostly because I pulled the numbers out of thin air.

 

Sorry 'bout that.