Opposed Presence Attacks

[Metaphysician]

It is possible for two characters to both attempt to effect the same target or targets with a presence attack, or to attempt presence attacks against each other. When this happens, I would resolve it as follows: each contender rolls their presence attack as normal, with all modifiers. Then, take the *difference* between the two results. Whoever achieved a higher result inflicts this level of effect on the intended target(s). This applies even against people other than the person defending with a presence attack.

 

This rule represents how two people can contend for the loyalty or fear of a single individual or group, or how to opposed sides in battle could both attempt to intimidate and/or defy the other. It also increases the value of Presence, as not only can you use it to terrify the other side, you can also use it to embolden your own side. Agents and lesser superheroes who would otherwise flee from Armageddon Man, might stand and fight if Superman or Captain America leads them.

 

Conversely, it gives the villain a big reason to attack the Charismatic Leader, as not only is that one man down, but suddenly, he can make an unopposed presence attack against the survivors ( assuming no one else steps up to the plate with a defiant speech ).

[Peregrine]

Re: Opposed Presence Attacks

 

It is possible for two characters to both attempt to effect the same target or targets with a presence attack, or to attempt presence attacks against each other. When this happens, I would resolve it as follows: each contender rolls their presence attack as normal, with all modifiers. Then, take the *difference* between the two results. Whoever achieved a higher result inflicts this level of effect on the intended target(s). This applies even against people other than the person defending with a presence attack.

 

This rule represents how two people can contend for the loyalty or fear of a single individual or group, or how to opposed sides in battle could both attempt to intimidate and/or defy the other. It also increases the value of Presence, as not only can you use it to terrify the other side, you can also use it to embolden your own side. Agents and lesser superheroes who would otherwise flee from Armageddon Man, might stand and fight if Superman or Captain America leads them.

 

Conversely, it gives the villain a big reason to attack the Charismatic Leader, as not only is that one man down, but suddenly, he can make an unopposed presence attack against the survivors ( assuming no one else steps up to the plate with a defiant speech ).

 

Which also opens up the possibility for a great story event: Charismatic Leader is down, so one of the other heroes rises to the occasion...

[the fox]

Re: Opposed Presence Attacks

 

sounds like a quick and easy way to give 'a group' the highest PRE,

rather than to determine each 'presence of mind' based on circumstances..

[prestidigitator]

Re: Opposed Presence Attacks

 

It's hard enough to affect people with a full Presence Attack. Frankly, a difference is never going to do squat. I'd simply let the higher one win, but allow the lower one to produce a secondary effect; probably momentary hesitation in doing what the higher effect dictates.

[the fox]

Re: Opposed Presence Attacks

 

[the fox]

Re: Opposed Presence Attacks

 

Super-'Impressive'-Man directly negates PRE attacks with his 'scary' actions?

Presence Attack as Presence Defense, Usable on Others, free whenever you want to use it? Is this for 5th or 6th edition?

Supe's presence, actions and relevant skills might just might be a -1d6 or -2d6, if that, not HIS PRE/5 x 1d6.

I'd be more inclined to automatically give them their Skill and Reputation effects (-1d6 or -2d6 or more)

because figuring out PRE attacks are complicated enough;

your applying different amounts of damage(dice) from a single 'attack'.

start with those least effected, then add a variable amount to those more so (which just may be Supes himself!)

why? to better reflect high or low PRE attacks that generally effect others equally.

i.e. you keep rolling low and you'll impress no one.

you keep rolling high, and they'll all be impressed!

or you roll each separately, because the 'attack' effects each separately; oddly enough, that's logical too!

Super-man's mere presence does not make me braver or less hesitant;

oddly enough, it can have the opposite effect!

[Vondy]

Re: Opposed Presence Attacks

 

I model presence attacks as opposed characteristic rolls with modifiers. The effect is determined by the MoS. In this kind of case I'd go with "greater MoS" wins. With the traditional system I'd do the same thing. Bigger roll wins.

[torchwolf]

Re: Opposed Presence Attacks

 

I may be missing something here, but isn't the ability to give your allies defense against Presence Attacks already part of both 5ER and 6E rules?

 

5ER and 6E rules state that:

Presence Attacks results of more than target's PRE or PRE+10, gets “+5 PRE only for purposes of resisting contrary Presence Attacks”.

Presence Attacks results of more than target's PRE+20, gets “+10 PRE only for purposes of resisting contrary Presence Attacks”.

 

I can see that you might want have the ability to neutralize enemy Presence Attacks, but this is already possible even if it depends on your tactics.

Generally, a leader should probably get the best effects from his leadership-type Presence Attack if he performs it at the start of the fight:

If he makes it at some later point, when his allies have already been intimidated or demoralized, the “rallying” Presence Attack would probably need to be combined with something violent (as well as very inspirational words and/or actions). Possibly, the GM might allow an extra +1d6 modifier if the leadership is acknowledged (the allies are already predisposed, and/or trained, to obey the leader); even though the GM might withhold such a bonus against rebellious character, and not count that d6 towards that particular character.

 

Examples (none of these factor in the modifiers – this would probably give even better results, for +3.5 to +10.5; even though results will usually be worse if it is used after allies have already been Presence Attacked):

 

In a superheroic genre, Captain America could have, let's say:

PRE 25; 2 levels of Striking Appearance: “Trustworthy and Dependable”; 2 levels of Reputation: “Trustworthy and Dependable” (Large Group), 14-; Oratory 14- (“Assemble!”); Persuasion 14- (“This is the Right Way.”).

 

This will usually allow him to get a result of 10d6 Presence Attack; an average of 35 (PRE 5d6, +2d6 SA, +2d6 Rep, +1d6 from Oratory) on a normally successful roll.

Often, this would get him a PRE+20 result, giving his allies an extra +10 PRE to defend with. It would also last for 5 minutes, almost certainly enough to finish any superheroic fight.

 

In a more Heroic genre, Gunnery Sergeant Tom Highway (Clint Eastwood's character in Heartbreak Ridge) could have (OK, it's a pretty conservative estimate, that's intentional for this analysis):

PRE 15; 1 level of Striking Appearance: “Tough as Nails”; 1 level of Reputation: “Gets the Job Done” (Small Group, subordinates), 11-; Oratory 12- (“Fall In, Men!”); Persuasion 12- (“I'm so Right and You're so Wrong.”); probably also Combat-Hardened Veteran: +10 PRE (Only to defend against Presence Attacks).

 

This would allow Highway to get an average result of a 6d6 Presence Attack to rally his men; an average of 21 (PRE 3d6, +1d6 SA, +1d6 Rep, +1d6 from Oratory).

Frequently, this would allow him to achieve a PRE+10 result, allowing his men an extra +5 PRE for defense, and it would last for a minute or so.

 

 

That is: Striking Appearance is already defined as being Presence usable in a specific situation. The ability to rally troops would qualify.

 

 

That's my 0.2d6 Presence Attack.