Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

[Dragon-D1]

Hello Herophiles,

 

I am running a 5 ed game and during one of my sessions we encountered a question with the use of a Force Wall.

 

The problem was this: the bad guys had a large Force Wall surrounding them, one of my PCs is a Green Arrow/Hawkeye type and he shot an arrow with an Explosion effect at a hex behind the Force Wall.

 

I was trying to determine if the arrow would penetrate the wall to explode in the target hex or would it explode against the Force Wall? My thinking was to roll the BODY of the attack just to see if the arrow itself (before the Explosion) would penetrate and therefore bring down the Force Wall then explode in the target hex, or, if the BODY was insufficient to penetrate the wall, the arrow would explode against the wall.

 

Is there an actual rule for deciding this, and if not could I get some suggestions on how to adjudicate this (assuming you think I did it wrong).

 

Thanks:thumbup:

[prestidigitator]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

I think I would have it detonate on the wall (because that's when and how the attack is able to do any damage), and if the damage of the attack is enough to break the wall, the explosion will expand on the far side of the wall as well (subtracting the wall's defense from the damage). If the damage isn't enough to break the wall, it only expands on the side where it made contact and detonated.

 

That's just me though. I am not aware of any official ruling. You might search the FAQ and Rules Questions board and/or ask Steve.

 

EDIT: If there was a Linked attack that could penetrate the wall I might be willing to allow the Explosion/AoE to still go off in the hex being attacked, but for fairness/order-of-operations still with the damage reduced. I just don't see Explosions/AoEs as being able to inflict any damage before they expand....

[Rapier]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

Ok, let me see if I'm understanding.

 

BowDude shoots at Targetty McGruder. Targetty is surrounded by a ForceWall and is in a direct line with BowDude. BowDude's aiming for a hex on the line between him and Targetty, that is behind Targetty.

 

To draw it out you are looking at: BD -- (FW -- TM -- FW) -- TargetHex

 

Everyone is in a big line, neh?

 

Assuming that is the case, piece of cake.

 

Compare the base bow damage against the ForceWall. It is possible that the arrow doesn't have a base damage (depending on how it was built). In that case pick the normal longbow damage off the chart.

 

Does the BODY done by the arrow break the ForceWall? If it does, the Explosion occurs with no impedance by the FW. Targetty takes full regular damage.

 

If the BODY of the arrow does NOT break the ForceWall, the arrow impacts and detonates at the front of the wall. Roll the damage for the Explosion. Does the Explosion break the ForceWall? If not, Targetty just gets to smirk and laugh at BowDude. If the Explosion DOES break the wall, the FW provides DEF to BowDude (at whatever DEF it was purchased at).

 

Regardless of where BowDude was aiming (unless he is able to bounce the attack or has purchased it Indirect) intervening objects will stop his attack (or in this case, cause it to detonate prematurely).

[Sean Waters]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

Normally the AoE would go off when the attack hits something, so I'd have the explosion occur at the surface of the Force Wall: if it penetrates - and the actual target is within the radius of the AoE then they are damaged too, otherwise they are not (they get the FW defences added to theirs before damage through defences is calculated).

 

If the arrow damage and explosion damage are bought separately, I'd let you use arrow damage to penetrate the FW and then apply explosion damage to the target. That is not likely though. I wouldn't 'attribute' notional damage to the arrow: if it is not bought you only get to apply the AoE damage.

[secretID]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

Unless the FW is minimal, I'd rule that the arrow explodes on contact. I would not give the arrow default damage to get through - certainly not default damage on the level of a regular arrow, since the head is designed to be fragile in a sense.

 

The rules make clear that a FW with PD is just like a solid object (though not necessarily opaque). We wouldn't wonder whether someone could shoot an explosive-tip arrow through a stone or wood wall. However, we might wonder whether he could put it through, say, a shoji screen.

 

You could probably stat that out, but I assume it's not a close call, and that the FW is at least as strong as a thin wood wall, so I would say it explodes on contact.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

The arrow is like any other attack. To bypass the Force Wall, the attack must either be Indirect or break the Wall. The explosive arrow presumably explodes when it hits, or it would do arrow damage + explode when it hits targets (or maybe just to arrow damage and now the target has an explosive sticking out of him).

[Dragon-D1]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

Compare the base bow damage against the ForceWall. It is possible that the arrow doesn't have a base damage (depending on how it was built). In that case pick the normal longbow damage off the chart.

 

I thought about doing this but I thought that a normal arrow would be underpowering the arrow considering the Active Points of the attack.

 

So far it looks like everyone would have had the arrow explode on the FW. That was my first thought but I truly can't remember what made me go the other way, it was probably a PC argument that sounded cogent.

[Rapier]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

I thought about doing this but I thought that a normal arrow would be underpowering the arrow considering the Active Points of the attack.

 

So far it looks like everyone would have had the arrow explode on the FW. That was my first thought but I truly can't remember what made me go the other way, it was probably a PC argument that sounded cogent.

 

Well, and like I said. It depends on entirely how the arrow was built. I would have been inclined to just say it bursts on impact since most explodey arrows are moderately fragile and designed to explode on impact. However, there could be some timed explosive or maybe GPS explosive thingey or even a magical spell that might explode a normal arrow when it stops moving. At any rate, I couldn't discount the possibility that it would make rational sense to allow the arrow to do damage above and beyond the explosion.

 

The weapons charts are pretty handy in a pinch.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

That gives me an idea:

 

EDF (Explosive Detonation Field)

 

This is a power which emits a range of energies at different frequencies, none of which are powerful enough to cause damage to anything but the most sensitive mechanisms, like the triggers of missiles and other projectile explosives.

 

It is built as a 1pd, 1ed force wall on a trigger (to put it in front of incoming attacks). Any AoE or Explosive attack that hits it will go off at the edge of the EDF rather than right on top of the target, reducing explosive damage and making DFC much easier. You might even be able to get the atacker within their own radius!

 

EDF: 22 active and real Force Wall (1 PD/1 ED; 2" long and 2" tall), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (22 Active Points)

 

Although that is potentially far too nasty on its own, I might allow it if it had the right limitations, including, for instance, RSR (PER or DEX). It's still pretty nasty though

[Rapier]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

That gives me an idea:

 

EDF (Explosive Detonation Field)

 

This is a power which emits a range of energies at different frequencies, none of which are powerful enough to cause damage to anything but the most sensitive mechanisms, like the triggers of missiles and other projectile explosives.

 

It is built as a 1pd, 1ed force wall on a trigger (to put it in front of incoming attacks). Any AoE or Explosive attack that hits it will go off at the edge of the EDF rather than right on top of the target, reducing explosive damage and making DFC much easier. You might even be able to get the atacker within their own radius!

 

EDF: 22 active and real Force Wall (1 PD/1 ED; 2" long and 2" tall), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (22 Active Points)

 

Although that is potentially far too nasty on its own, I might allow it if it had the right limitations, including, for instance, RSR (PER or DEX). It's still pretty nasty though

 

Wasn't there some kind of similar spell in FH for springing traps?

[Sean Waters]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

Wasn't there some kind of similar spell in FH for springing traps?

 

I don't think you could use Force Wall to spring traps as you can not apply pressure with it, but an AoE TK, or similar, would certainly work.

[Rapier]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

I don't think you could use Force Wall to spring traps as you can not apply pressure with it' date=' but an AoE TK, or similar, would certainly work.[/quote']

 

Now that you mention it, I believe it was TK. Heck, I haven't read through any of the FH stuff in quite a while!

[SteveZilla]

Re: Adjudicating Force Wall (5ed)

 

That gives me an idea:

 

EDF (Explosive Detonation Field)

 

This is a power which emits a range of energies at different frequencies, none of which are powerful enough to cause damage to anything but the most sensitive mechanisms, like the triggers of missiles and other projectile explosives.

 

It is built as a 1pd, 1ed force wall on a trigger (to put it in front of incoming attacks). Any AoE or Explosive attack that hits it will go off at the edge of the EDF rather than right on top of the target, reducing explosive damage and making DFC much easier. You might even be able to get the atacker within their own radius!

 

EDF: 22 active and real Force Wall (1 PD/1 ED; 2" long and 2" tall), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; +1) (22 Active Points)

 

Although that is potentially far too nasty on its own, I might allow it if it had the right limitations, including, for instance, RSR (PER or DEX). It's still pretty nasty though

 

Even nastier would be making it fully invisible and then englobing the attacker. His AoE attacks would go off as soon as they try to leave his hex!