5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

[mmshah]

Under the 6E (and 5E, but OCV is not a stat in 5E) rules any limited CSL can only be applied to OCV, since OCV directly costs 5 points, this would make 8 or 10 pt CSLs that are limited pointless, since OCV (with the same limitation) is cheaper. Even 5 pt Limited CSLs would be worse then just Limited OCV (since they would not apply to all combat and are not persistent). Also 2 pt CSLs are only usable for OCV also, a Limited OCV would seem a simpler way to buy this. My question comes in the pricing of Limited OCV.

 

Do I assign a value for a limitation on OCV consistent with equivalent pricing of CSLs? Or do I assign a value for the limitation of what I think its worth (more along the lines of Limited Power pricing guidelines)? Here's an example to show what I mean.

 

2 pt CSL gives +1 OCV to 1 attack

+1 OCV 5 AP (Limited Power, only for 1 attack - 1 1/4, Nonpersistent -1/4) 2 RP

 

3 pt CSL gives +1 OCV to 3 maneuvers or +1 DCV (ranged or HTH or possibly both dependent on the maneuvers, or +Damage)

+1 OCV 5 AP (Limited Power, only for 3 maneuvers - 1/2, NonPersistent -1/4) 3 RP

 

For the 2 point CSL maybe the value for Limited Power is about right, however for the 3 pt CSL a value of -1/2 of Limited Power for just 3 maneuvers with no ability to add to DCV or Damage seems pretty incorrect. Any suggestions of what is a fair value for this, or should I just ignore that and try to follow the pricing of the CSLs?

 

Another example would be what would be a fair price for (-Limited Power Only for HtH) on OCV? At the very least it has to be -1/4.

 

Thanks

[gojira]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

I thought 10 point combat skill levels (CSL) were both for OCV and DCV? That's why they cost 10 points, exactly the cost of one point of DCV and one point of OCV. So for 10 points you have a CSL that you can apply to either OCV or DCV as you please. Hmm, I guess this could be considered "worse." Why not for 10 points just buy +1 ODC and +1 DCV and have both all the time, instead of shifting the points around?

 

You'll have to ask someone else about the 8 point levels, I dunno about that.

[ghost-angel]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

Why not for 10 points just buy +1 ODC and +1 DCV and have both all the time' date=' instead of shifting the points around?[/quote']

 

Skill Levels can also add Damage Classes.

[gojira]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

Skill Levels can also add Damage Classes.

 

See, I never do that, which is why I forget about it all the time. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Ice9]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

Still a bit overpriced, IMO. I mean, by Multipower pricing:

 

10 "Two 10-point CSLs" - Multipower, 10 point reserve

1u 1) +2 OCV

1u 2) +2 DCV

1u 3) +2 MOCV (actually could fit three)

1u 4) +2 MDCV (actually could fit three)

1u 5) +1 DC

 

15 points, which would give 7-8 points per level as a reasonable cost. The limited CSLs are a better deal, IMO - I've used the "Large Group" and "Small Group" levels on several characters, and they seem like a reasonable trade-off.

[ghost-angel]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

Given that the Damage Class can add to any Power . . . a more accurate comparison might be to cost out +1 DC to every Power in the book to that MP - as there is no such thing as "Buying A Damage Class" by itself.

[Ice9]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

True, but given that the CSL rules allow you to trade 2 of them for a damage class, I think we have to assume that they're valuing it at twice what the other benefits are worth. If that's not the case, then changing the 1:2 ratio makes more sense than overpricing everything else.

[ghost-angel]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

We know what a Damage Class is worth in points; 6E2 page 297 - MetaRule 1: +1 DC = 5 Points.

 

Given that, I'm not sure breaking down a CSLs into MPs is in any way useful or accurate.

[mmshah]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

I'm talking about Limited CSLs, CSLs with limitations, these can only be used for OCV. The same is true for 2 pt CSLs.

[ghost-angel]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

Personally, I would simply ignore that rule completely. It's nonsensical.

 

I should be able to put a Focus Limitation on my CSLs and have them behave as normal CSLs in every way. Or several other Limitations that don't affect their use in combat but may be appropriate to the setting at hand. Like CSLs as magic items, or spells.

[Vondy]

Re: 5pt+ Limited CSLs or 2 pt CSLs redundant?

 

I'm talking about Limited CSLs' date=' CSLs with limitations, these can only be used for OCV. The same is true for 2 pt CSLs.[/quote']

 

Its an arbitrary rule. If I were running a game I'd ignore it.