Several questions. I'm a noob.

[Kaimont]

I'm totally new to the HERO System. I just got the 6th Ed Basic Rulebook this week, and it's a lot to absorb. But right now, I've got some questions, mostly relating to how to build certain ideas my group has had.

 

Number one is a spell called Sphere Of Silence. I looked at darkness, and figured that affecting the Hearing Group instead of the Sight Group might work. But how I imagine it, there's a major problem with this plan. One of the favorite uses of this spell is giving a conversation an added level of privacy, but Darkness on the Hearing Group mutes all sound inside, instead of allowing a conversation to take place inside, inaudible to everyone else.

 

So, I looked at Barrier, and sure enough, there's an option to make it opaque to a sense group. Choosing the Hearing Sense Group covers that aspect, but it's really not much of a Barrier. It stops sound, including Sonic Attacks, but arrows, lightning bolts, lasers, and even people can pass through it freely, either direction. So, I guess I'm looking at a limitation. Maybe -1? Or 1 and a half? Would that be about right?

 

The other fun use for the spell is blocking outside noise, allowing for better concentration when casting long complicated spells. Would this be Aid, with an Area Effect advantage? And to make both the Aid and Barrier effects last long enough for that, she'd need to buy some advantages for both. Right? To make them Persistent?

 

The Second power is a spell to make herself more persuasive. I've thought about simple boosting her Presence, but that targets her, so how resistant to magic her target is never really comes into play. Could she instead use Drain to reduce one of their stats so she could more easily persuade them? Which stat would that be? What should the defense be? EGO? DMCV?

 

Finally, let's say for example, I want to build a character whose ring has a mind of its own, literally. And it speaks to him Mentally. Mind Link would be good, except that it only works on a willing target, which the wearer won't always be. So, there's another good option called Telepathy. I don't want it to have to spend into Telepathy all the time, so Reduced Endurance Cost is good. But it makes me wonder how exactly Telepathy works normally, as well as with the Constant or Persistent advantages. From what I can tell, it doesn't have much need for Persistent, but I'd like to be sure.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

I'm totally new to the HERO System. I just got the 6th Ed Basic Rulebook this week, and it's a lot to absorb. But right now, I've got some questions, mostly relating to how to build certain ideas my group has had.

 

Number one is a spell called Sphere Of Silence. I looked at darkness, and figured that affecting the Hearing Group instead of the Sight Group might work. But how I imagine it, there's a major problem with this plan. One of the favorite uses of this spell is giving a conversation an added level of privacy, but Darkness on the Hearing Group mutes all sound inside, instead of allowing a conversation to take place inside, inaudible to everyone else.

 

So, I looked at Barrier, and sure enough, there's an option to make it opaque to a sense group. Choosing the Hearing Sense Group covers that aspect, but it's really not much of a Barrier. It stops sound, including Sonic Attacks, but arrows, lightning bolts, lasers, and even people can pass through it freely, either direction. So, I guess I'm looking at a limitation. Maybe -1? Or 1 and a half? Would that be about right?

 

I'm away from my books at the moment so I might be speaking in 5E terms by accident here...

 

Darkness with Hole in the Middle or Personal Immunity would still allow some freedom to speak. Personal Immunity would mean only the person that cast the spell could speak, while Hole in the Middle would allow anyone in the "safe" spot to speak.

 

You can make a Barrier that only blocks sound by buying it with ED and no PD, then making it transparent to PD attacks and add a limitation to the ED that it only works against sound.

 

The other fun use for the spell is blocking outside noise, allowing for better concentration when casting long complicated spells. Would this be Aid, with an Area Effect advantage? And to make both the Aid and Barrier effects last long enough for that, she'd need to buy some advantages for both. Right? To make them Persistent?

 

Um.. this really depends on what the mechanical effects of "Concentration" are.

 

The Second power is a spell to make herself more persuasive. I've thought about simple boosting her Presence, but that targets her, so how resistant to magic her target is never really comes into play. Could she instead use Drain to reduce one of their stats so she could more easily persuade them? Which stat would that be? What should the defense be? EGO? DMCV?

 

Drain PRE would work well.

 

Defense would then be Power Defense.

 

Finally, let's say for example, I want to build a character whose ring has a mind of its own, literally. And it speaks to him Mentally. Mind Link would be good, except that it only works on a willing target, which the wearer won't always be. So, there's another good option called Telepathy. I don't want it to have to spend into Telepathy all the time, so Reduced Endurance Cost is good. But it makes me wonder how exactly Telepathy works normally, as well as with the Constant or Persistent advantages. From what I can tell, it doesn't have much need for Persistent, but I'd like to be sure.

 

I'd probably just give the ring a multipower with Mind Link and Telepathy. Probably heavily limited Telepathy if all it can do is speak.

[sobran]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

I had a few thoughts on the ring. On the "reasoning from effect" front, what is it that you want the ring to give the character as far as advantages and disadvantages? There is no need for the ring to have Telepathy unless you are building it as a follower or something like that. Which may work. But alternatively, you could simply buy whatever effects the ring gives you as a focus.

 

For example: Say the ring, being intelligent, knows tons of information that is occasionally useful to the wearer. In this case, you could buy a set of Knowledge skills with Focus: IIF. This might be OIF if he brings the ring up near his face and talks to it like a loon when he needs info. Which could be humorous. LOL. Instead of purchasing individual Knowledges, it might make more sense to purchase a Cosmic VPP with IIF (or OIF), limited so that it can only be used to duplicate Knowledge skills. The ring also might be able to warn the wearer of impending attacks, assuming the wearer isn't currently ignoring the ring because it is annoying and won't quit chattering in his/her head. For this, you could purchase Danger Sense with some adders (Functions as a Sense seems likely) and IIF. It likely wouldn't need any other modifiers--the activation roll inherent in Danger Sense could be used to simulate the fact that the ring may not always warn the wearer or that the wearer may not be listening.

 

If built in this manner, you wouldn't need to purchase Telepathy. Telepathy would essentially just be the special effect for the ring--how it communicates with the wearer. Figure out the disadvantages the ring might pose and simply make them Complications on your character. For example: Ring Is Annoying (Uncommon, Moderate Intensity) could be used to simulate the fact that he sometimes switches off all powers associated with the ring. In such a situation, the Danger Sense would be unavailable. Alternatively, one could just purchase a Limitation on Danger Sense to simulate this, since the Knowledge skills would arguably not be limited by this.

[Kaimont]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

Do'h! I was in a hurry when I posted before, and I forgot to mention that the ring also reads his thoughts (and possibly memories, too). That requires telepathy, right? And it'll probably have some other powers of its own, that it can use when it feels like it. I'm thinking Mind Control, Mind Blast, and maybe Telekinesis, and whatever else I come up with.

 

For the sound-blocking Barrier, how much would the "only stops sound" Limitation be?

 

One of my friends built a character with mystic claws that Drain Body. The combat test against him was quite messy. When his claw attack hits, we can choose to use the Drain that he linked to it, and it takes no additional time. Then he rolls his Drain dice and subtracts the target's Power Defense, which in my case was none. Did I do all of that right? Is there supposed to be an extra cost for Drain BODY or something, since it's so nasty?

 

Also, I've found rulebooks from 5th Ed, revised 5th Ed, and 6th Ed. Do they all play somewhat nicely together, or are things a real pain to convert from one revision to another? I've noticed there are a ton of 5th Ed books, (more than 6th Ed, at least for now) and I'm wondering how well I could incorporate rules from them, or if I'd be wasting my time.

 

Speaking of additional rulebooks, Are there any specific HERO books you'd recommend? (Other than the obvious Full Rulebooks of course, since I've only got the 6th Ed Basic Rulebook.)

 

Oh, if I want a character who attacks by using their powers to light objects on fire, and throwing them, could you just build that as an Energy Blast that requires a flammable object to throw? Or would you perhaps make a physical attack with the object, and then have an Energy attack linked to it, so that you still get some physical damage in there, but also get the Energy Damage from the fire?

 

How would you make a character who electrifies himself? Anyone attacking him in hand-to-hand combat takes energy damage from his electrified skin. Would this be some sort of constant Energy Blast, without range, or am I a long way off?

[ender42]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

Re: zone of silence

In 5E

The popular way was always hole in the middle - but that leaves you open to clairaudience, and other work arounds. And required some serious space, as well as at least 2 hex radius of effect, in order to get the hole into the middle.

 

I've been a big fan of advantages on advantages: usable by others on just the personal immunity on the darkness (or on images vs. hearing, or CE - reduced perception).

 

But, you could also do it as a mind-link, and define it with some SFX and limitations.

 

Ring could be an automaton w/own speed and action abilities. Or independent power, with SFX.

[reapocalypsed]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

First off: Welcome to HERO and the boards!

 

Second some thoughts. Your Zone of Silence can be built with Hole In The Middle where the hole can be changed with each use. This allows you to cast it will a 1 meter hole or a hole that only allows for the caster to stand in it. You might also want to make it mobile so that it can be moved. If you want it to target a person specifically it needs to be Usable As Attack, but that is not necessary if its mobile.

 

The thing to remember when dealing with your ideas for making someone more persuasive is that HERO doesn't have a magic resist ability unless you create it. This being said I recommend either Drain PRE (if you feel that this is an attack upon another person) or Aid PRE (if you feel that this is a boost for the player).

 

For the ring I suggest buying with its own abilities and then buying Computer that has personality you need. This Computer would have the Telepathy powers, most likely with O END and Only To Communicate With Wearer Of Ring.

 

The Telepathy power is an Instant use power that has a continuing effect. This allows it to be activated once and it will last for more than 1 segment of time as long as the person fails their Breakout Roll. For what you described Persistant and Constant are not needed as the Computer can use it many times as needed.

[Thanee]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

Number one is a spell called Sphere Of Silence. I looked at darkness' date=' and figured that affecting the Hearing Group instead of the Sight Group might work. But how I imagine it, there's a major problem with this plan. One of the favorite uses of this spell is giving a conversation an added level of privacy, but Darkness on the Hearing Group mutes all sound inside, instead of allowing a conversation to take place inside, inaudible to everyone else.[/quote']

 

Invisibility (Hearing) with Area of Effect and Usable on Others (that one might only be in the full rules, though), and keeping the "fringe" should do the trick.

 

Bye

Thanee

[Lucius]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

I'm totally new to the HERO System. I just got the 6th Ed Basic Rulebook this week, and it's a lot to absorb. But right now, I've got some questions, mostly relating to how to build certain ideas my group has had.

 

Number one is a spell called Sphere Of Silence.

 

Consider Invisibility, Usable by Others, Personal Immunity. That should let the spellcaster converse unheard with as many people as Usable by Others is bought for.

 

So, I looked at Barrier,

 

I just looked at barrier too. Oddly enough, there is an Advantage "One Way Transparent" but nothing about Two Way Transparent, although it does say

 

This is an Advantage, since it’s assumed the character will

use the Barrier to protect himself while making

attacks through it unhindered; if that’s not the

case the GM might consider reducing the value, or

even making One-Way Transparent a Limitation.

 

So possibly one could make a Barrier with neither PD nor ED and a +0 Advantage that basically makes it Transparent in all directions to all physical and all energy, and then render it Opaque.

So in theory:

 

Barrier, 0 BODY (up to 6m long, 2m tall, and 1/2m thick), Opaque Hearing Group (19 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Restricted Shape (Sphere; -1/4) Real Cost: 11

 

But for game balance purposes there should be some way to bring a Barrier down, so how about

 

Barrier 2 Flash Defense: Hearing Group, 0 BODY (up to 6m long, 2m tall, and 1/2m thick), Opaque Hearing Group (24 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Restricted Shape (Sphere; -1/4) Real Cost 14

 

and define it as going down if a Hearing Flash overcomes its Defense?

 

For that matter, you could define it that way without buying Flash Defense

 

Another alternative is to keep the first formulation, but do NOT define it as totally "Transparent." Either any attack or movement in or out breaks the spell, or say that any physical object crossing the boundary breaks it.

 

Or, just go with Bloodstone's excellent suggestion and use a Hole in the Middle of a silence field.

 

The other fun use for the spell is blocking outside noise, allowing for better concentration when casting long complicated spells. Would this be Aid, with an Area Effect advantage?

 

Much depends on how her magic works, or how magic in general works in your particular game.

 

For example - if she needs to make a Skill Roll to use a spell, and there is a penalty imposed for noisy conditions as one of the campaign ground rules, the Sphere of Silence – not matter how you end up building it mechanically – will eliminate the noise and thus eliminate the penalty automatically, no need to build a special power.

 

If you still really want the spell to create an environment conducive to spellcasting, some possibilities include Skill Levels with Magic, linked to the spell, or Combat Skill Levels for spell targetting.

 

Or, you can do an Aid if you just want more raw power for each spell.

 

But it does not need an Area Effect unless you want to boost every other magician in the area. If the effect you're going for is that she loses the bonus when she leaves the area, that's a Limitation.

 

And to make both the Aid and Barrier effects last long enough for that, she'd need to buy some advantages for both. Right? To make them Persistent?

 

“Persistent” means it keeps going if she is knocked out or goes to sleep.

If you do it as Barrier, it sticks around until something makes it go away, no problem.

 

The other ways will probably require an END cost, although there's an Advantage to reduce or eliminate that. But what do you mean by “last long enough for that?” Long enough for what?

To have a whispered conversation? A day long conference? Months to research a new spell?

 

The Second power is a spell to make herself more persuasive. I've thought about simple boosting her Presence, but that targets her, so how resistant to magic her target is never really comes into play. Could she instead use Drain to reduce one of their stats so she could more easily persuade them? Which stat would that be? What should the defense be? EGO? DMCV?

 

Okay, are you trying to make her more persuasive? Or make someone else more persuadable?

And how do you define “resistant to magic?”

 

Finally, let's say for example, I want to build a character whose ring has a mind of its own, literally.

 

Until I know more about what the ring does, there is no way to answer this intelligently.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary notes that Lucius copied and pasted this to a document last night to compose an answer, and this morning notices that there are a lot more posts here to read and perhaps respond to already...hey, did someone else already mention Invisibility to sound?

[Lucius]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

Could you try breaking up your questions and only covering one topic per post?

 

Lucius Alexander

 

House of the Palindromedary

[torchwolf]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

Do'h! I was in a hurry when I posted before' date=' and I forgot to mention that the ring also reads his thoughts (and possibly memories, too). That requires telepathy, right? And it'll probably have some other powers of its own, that it can use when it feels like it. I'm thinking Mind Control, Mind Blast, and maybe Telekinesis, and whatever else I come up with.[/quote']

As suggested, if the ring has a mind of its own, it may be either an NPC or Follower AI.

I just realized those rules are in the full 6th Edition Rules, the sidebars on p40 and p116 of the Basic Rulebook notes this on Automaton Powers and Computers. Well, this is part of why the full rules are so many pages.

Just buy down all Characteristics the Ring doesn't need (including movement), to zero, that should approximate it close enough, and give it a big Physical Complication: Ain't Got No Body, All The Time, Fully Impairing (reduced to Greatly if it has TK).

The Automaton Powers you don't have includes Takes No Stun, which would seem appropriate, but unless a player has to have the character sheet you could just make a note of this and other reasonably Ring-ish issues.

 

For the sound-blocking Barrier' date=' how much would the "only stops sound" Limitation be?[/quote']

That depends on how common sound is in your campaign. As powers or spells that is.

Usually it ends up around -1/2 in a superhero campaign, but in a fantasy campaign it might be increased to -3/4 or -1, or left at -1/2 if sonic manic is fairly known.

The easier solution, as also suggested, is probably to use Darkness, or Invisibility (or Change Environment that reduces Hearing PER Rolls), since you might run into a disconnect when a Flash vs Hearing, or sonic spell that works against PD, would both technically just pass through the Barrier, even though you could rule that it protected against that. Adding Flash Defense vs Hearing to the Barrier makes it even pricier.

 

One of my friends built a character with mystic claws that Drain Body. The combat test against him was quite messy. When his claw attack hits' date=' we can choose to use the Drain that he linked to it, and it takes no additional time. Then he rolls his Drain dice and subtracts the target's Power Defense, which in my case was none. Did I do all of that right? Is there supposed to be an extra cost for Drain BODY or something, since it's so nasty?[/quote']

Yes, when applied against BODY the effect rolled is halved (Basic Rulebook p38), after any Power Defense is subtracted.

 

Also' date=' I've found rulebooks from 5th Ed, revised 5th Ed, and 6th Ed. Do they all play somewhat nicely together, or are things a real pain to convert from one revision to another? I've noticed there are a ton of 5th Ed books, (more than 6th Ed, at least for now) and I'm wondering how well I could incorporate rules from them, or if I'd be wasting my time.

Generally speaking you should have no problem using 5th and even earlier editions of the Hero System with 6th Edition, including published characters, although the listed costs of abilities may be a bit off.

 

Here's an excerpt from 6th Edition Volume 1 (6E1 as usually abbreviated on these boards), listing the changes from 5th Edition, and kindly postedby DOJ for free download (other free Hero stuff on that same page).

 

http://www.herogames.com/freeStuff.htm?category=Hero+6th+Edition+Documents

 

Speaking of additional rulebooks' date=' [/size']Are there any specific HERO books you'd recommend? (Other than the obvious Full Rulebooks of course, since I've only got the 6th Ed Basic Rulebook.)

The Advanced Players Guide, which proved so popular it sold out, is now back in print, and I highly recommend getting it when you get the 6E Volume 1 and 2. It expand options very nicely.

 

Recommendations would depend on what your genre preferences are.

 

If you're running Fantasy, the book Fantasy Hero (especially the 5th Ed version) is very useful, but will be updated for 6th Ed around August - here are links to the recently released schedules for 2010-2011:

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/78383-2010-Planned-Releases-%28Revised%29

 

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/78385-2011-Planned-Releases

 

Other than that, there are two Fantasy setting books for Hero:

The Turakian Age (high fantasy)

The Valdorian Age (low fantasy / sword & sorcery)

 

Both are 5th Edition books, unlikely to be updated soon, but almost everything is usable even if you have to rebuild a few spells if you use 6th Ed. That shouldn't present much of a problem using the above document (or the book it's excerpted from).

Oh' date=' if I want a character who attacks by using their powers to light objects on fire, and throwing them, could you just build that as an Energy Blast that requires a flammable object to throw? Or would you perhaps make a physical attack with the object, and then have an Energy attack linked to it, so that you still get some physical damage in there, but also get the Energy Damage from the fire?[/size']

Blast, OIF Expendable (flammable object of opportunity). The OIF represents you have to find a flammable object first, but those should be reasonably common.

Just for some speculative thoughts about such a thing: in an underwater campaign you could add Hard To Recover to represent having to somehow dry the object first, or you can rule that the sfx of the powers solves that automatically. It depends on the player's concept and what the GM feels reasonable.

How would you make a character who electrifies himself? Anyone attacking him in hand-to-hand combat takes energy damage from his electrified skin. Would this be some sort of constant Energy Blast, without range, or am I a long way off?

That is correct, plus an Area Effect Surface of Self (called Damage Shield), as listed on p63 in the Basic Rulebook, and as noted it will just require a Zero-Phase Action to activate. Depending on the effect you want, you could use either Blast or Killing Attack.

[Lucius]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

Do'h! I was in a hurry when I posted before, and I forgot to mention that the ring also reads his thoughts (and possibly memories, too). That requires telepathy, right? And it'll probably have some other powers of its own, that it can use when it feels like it. I'm thinking Mind Control, Mind Blast, and maybe Telekinesis, and whatever else I come up with.

 

There are two ways to do this – the easy way and the hard way.

 

I get the impression you will really want to try the hard way.

 

The hard way is to create the ring as a completely separate character with its own INT and EGO and SPD scores, its own Psychological Complications, its own fondness for going to the circus or to boxing matches, etc.

 

If the Basic Book has rules Computers/AIs (Artificial Intelligence) those will work for magic items like this.

 

The easy way is to decide what Skills and Powers a character has access to by possessing the ring,

and buying those Skills and Powers with an IIF Focus Limitation, plus a Limitation “Ring has its own Mind” with a value set by how often and how badly that causes problems. If it does. After all, if the ring can read the wearer's deepest darkest secrets, but is never, ever going to tell anyone, what does it matter? That's not a Power, that's not a Limitation, that's “Special Effects.”

 

For the sound-blocking Barrier, how much would the "only stops sound" Limitation be?

 

Something else occurs to me. Should this Barrier by Invisible?

 

One of my friends built a character with mystic claws that Drain Body. The combat test against him was quite messy. When his claw attack hits, we can choose to use the Drain that he linked to it, and it takes no additional time. Then he rolls his Drain dice and subtracts the target's Power Defense, which in my case was none. Did I do all of that right? Is there supposed to be an extra cost for Drain BODY or something, since it's so nasty?

 

I see someone pointed out that the damage should be halved – using Drain against a “defensive power” which includes BOD, END, and STUN, is adjusted by half. It will probably still be pretty deadly.

 

Also, I've found rulebooks from 5th Ed, revised 5th Ed, and 6th Ed. Do they all play somewhat nicely together, or are things a real pain to convert from one revision to another? I've noticed there are a ton of 5th Ed books, (more than 6th Ed, at least for now) and I'm wondering how well I could incorporate rules from them, or if I'd be wasting my time.

 

Speaking of additional rulebooks, Are there any specific HERO books you'd recommend? (Other than the obvious Full Rulebooks of course, since I've only got the 6th Ed Basic Rulebook.)

 

Mostly they should be okay. Some will require no work at all, some may require a little conversion. Keep in mind things like the older editions used “Hex” as a unit of measure equal to two meters, the new edition is all in metric.

 

Oh, if I want a character who attacks by using their powers to light objects on fire, and throwing them, could you just build that as an Energy Blast that requires a flammable object to throw?

 

I would.

 

How would you make a character who electrifies himself? Anyone attacking him in hand-to-hand combat takes energy damage from his electrified skin. Would this be some sort of constant Energy Blast, without range, or am I a long way off?

 

You're on your way. Yes, it's Constant, with No Range. Then add the Advantage Area of Effect: Surface (+1/4). If I'm not mistaken, this is the way to build what you want – anyone touching the character takes damage, and the character can grab someone to inflict the same damage. He takes no damage himself.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Basic Palindromedary

[Ice9]

Re: Several questions. I'm a noob.

 

For the sound-blocking Barrier, how much would the "only stops sound" Limitation be?

That depends on how common sound is in your campaign. As powers or spells that is.

Usually it ends up around -1/2 in a superhero campaign, but in a fantasy campaign it might be increased to -3/4 or -1, or left at -1/2 if sonic manic is fairly known.

I'd say at least -3, probably more. The question to ask is "How big a fraction of energy attacks are sound-based?" Unless there are a lot of commonly-encountered villains with sound powers, I doubt it could be more than 25% (which would be -3). In many campaigns, it could be lower than that, thus even more of a limitation.