sobran

I was wondering if I could get a little clarification on the blurb about simulating Mental Attacks on 6E1 326. On the same page, it says that AVAD Attacks do not ignore Barriers or other obstacles without an appropriate form of Indirect. Does this same rule apply if the power has ACV as well and is simulating a Mental Power? Example: Mental Fire has an ability of the same name, modeled as an RKA, ACV (OMCV vs DMCV), AVAD (Mental Defense), in which he sets people ablaze with his mind. He uses Mind Scan, achieves an EGO+10 roll against his opponent, and during his next available action uses it to target his enemy who is located on the other side of a mundane wall. At this point, since the power does not have Indirect, does it: A) Attack the target as normal, without a penalty for attacking blind, but have to blow through the wall's defenses before affecting the target. OR Ignore the wall as any other Mental Power would because it does not have Mental Defense.

Re: AoE Pyrokinesis That last part you touch on is why I wonder. Okay, so in the description of Mind Scan, it says that at the level of effect of EGO + 10, you can target Mental Powers AND Powers using the Simulated Mental Attack rules (using AVAD and ACV) through the scan. Does this just mean you have "locked on" to them accurately and may now attempt to blast through the intervening barriers without taking a penalty for firing blind? In particular, the bit at the beginning of the second column on 6E1 326 is what started me wondering in the first place. "It doesn't get Line of Sight for free, nor is it Invisible to Sight for free, but for the most part it can be treated as if it were a 'Mental Power'." Okay, so this means you can target through Mind Scan (and Mink Link, I would imagine), provided the power meets the ACV/AVAD requirements and possesses Line of Sight range (6E1 263, near the bottom of the right-hand column). Does this also mean it ignores barriers that do not have Mental Defense, as that is standard for Mental Powers? This isn't quite the same thing as Indirect, but I can see arguments either way.

Re: AoE Pyrokinesis I understand how Barrier works. I chose my term poorly. Where you understandably thought I was referring to Barrier (the Hero System Power), I actually meant "barrier" (the english word, referring to an obstruction of some sort). A clearer rephrasing: If an Attack Power is bought with AVAD and is using the rules for simulating a Mental Power, can it ignore walls and other structures that would ordinarily block Line of Sight or Line of Effect the way that Mental Powers in general can? I know that it doesn't give Line of Sight for free, as mentioned in the text. I'm a little unclear about targetting through obstacles, using say, Mind Scan or an appropriate Detect.

So I'm having some trouble with figuring out how to make an Attack Power function as a Mental Power in Sixth Edition. The single target version, I believe I've got down. Ranged Killing Attack, use some AVAD (Mental Defense), and ACV (OMCV vs DMCV), and most of it is functioning as intended. I'm having two problems with the power. Firstly: if I make the power Constant, it will by default cost END every segment the character has an action, correct? I know this is the default, but some options in Hero Designer confused me. From the text, it doesn't look like making it a Mental Power should change this. The second problem I'm having is when creating the AoE version of the power. The power should be a zone, inside which any living creature is immolated, whether the character can see them or not. Let's ignore the silly bits, such as every insect in 8 meters being set on fire and stick with the obvious effects on humanoid targets. So far I've got: RKA 1d6, ACV (OMCV vs DMCV), AVAD (Mental Defense), AoE (radius - 8m), No Range, Does BODY, Cannot Use Targeting, Constant. Now for this power to affect targets on the other side of a wall (assuming perception isn't an issue), do I need Indirect or does the fact that the power functions as a Mental Power essentially take care of this? I believe that Indirect is unnecessary in the first power, but I'm a little unclear about how this would interact with Area of Effect.

Re: Reduced Penetration That would certainly make it a painless endeavor.

Re: Reduced Penetration Isn't KB calculated from BODY rolled, rather than what got through the defenses? EDIT: Nevermind. I just caught what you meant. It's late for me.

Re: Reduced Penetration You raise a good point. In the examples I ran, I hadn't considered how a roll that was signifigantly below the defenses would affect the outcome. So there is a difference I overlooked. Thank you! I will point out that Reduced Penetration doesn't affect the way that STUN is figured though, just to make sure we BOTH run it right

I am posting from my phone at work, so I don't have the rules in front of me. Going from memory here. Anyway, as I recall, Reduced Penetration says to split the attack into two equal portions and apply them against the target's defenses separately. For ease of use, I have always just doubled the target's defenses instead, as that is easier to do on the fly. I can't think of a situation where this approach would be mathematically any different than the RAW. Am I overlooking something? I keep wondering why Reduced Penetration is written that way. There has to be /something/... EDIT: oops. Meant to put this in the System forum.

Or however errata is spelled. I realize that you don't typically answer 5th Edition questions anymore, but I'm hoping that Book of the Machine is recent enough that you might clarify two small details for me. On the writeup for the T-78 Anti-Personnel Robot, listed on page 96-97, the robot has a form of Mechanon's Vulnerability to Gravity, Magnetic, Or Force Attacks at 2x STUN. The T-78 doesn't have STUN, being an automaton. Was this intended to be double BODY damage or should it be omitted entirely? I can see arguments for both. Also, the two NND gas attacks in the Poison Gas Projector list "Life Support [appropriate Immunity]" as the defense. Do you recall if you intended this to be Immunity to Terrestrial Poisons or Self-Contained Breathing? I'll understand if you can't answer these, as it is technically against the guidelines you set out.

Re: Magic systems based on science? An example that springs to mind: In some villages there are weather casters, capable of controlling weather not only in their own region, but wherever they go. Their abilities are more reliable in their own region however--there appears to be areas of "dead magic" that some people refer to as "Imp Zones" throughout the world. The reason for that isn't understood, nor is the name. The ability to control the weather is passed down from mother to daughter or father to son and is embodied in the Sol Bracelet. It is suspected that these bracelets contain a connection to the Earth as well as the "Sols" of ancestor weathercasters, an idea given more credence by the fact that weathercasters appear to be getting more powerful over time. The political position of a weathercaster varies throughout the world. In some regions they are powerful warlords, ruling through power and fear. In others they are respected wisemen, shamans, or witches, whose advice is heeded but seldom wield power on their own. Regardless, people are afraid to kill them, knowing that their power cannot be stolen. Only a decendant may inherit the Sol Bracelet, as the Sols know their own. The science: There are weather control systems all over the world. Certain individuals were given bracelets with encrypted radio links to the system to help oversee the system. Each bracelet was genetically encoded to only work with the individual the bracelet was given to. After the apocalypse, the bracelets did nothing as the individuals given this responsibility died off. Over the next few centuries, the safeguards in the system began to fail. Today, simply being descended from the correct individual and of the correct gender is enough to fool the system into taking commands from the bracelet. In addition, safety mechanisms have begun to fail as well. Systems never intended to be controlled are now available, such as commanding lightning to strike, provided one knows the arcane language of "coordinates". In time, who knows what horrors will be unlocked by the failing safeties?

Re: Few questions about point costs The higher DCV should help the gadgeteer a lot. The only thing that jumps out at me is that the gadgeteer's battles may be somewhat like a pendulum. If, as Hugh says, his PSLs keep him out of the effective combat range of many opponents, he'll be unstoppable. Giving opponents a sniper or two or executing pincher attacks will mitigate it, of course. On the other extreme, I wonder what his CON is. Are their attacks representative of what a "lieutenant" class villain might be able to dish out? If I'm reading correctly, a 12dc Normal Damage attack (against PD) would do an average of 22 STUN after defenses. If this is more than his CON, it will stun him, causing him to lose an action and open him up to a devestating Multiple Attack. If his CON is higher and/or he will be hit rarely and this reflects the feel this character should have, disregard this

Re: Few questions about point costs Wow. That is quite a hefty END load. I would think about putting 1/2 END cost on at least a couple of the heavy load powes, just to minimize that. If there are a couple specific culprits, it might even be cheaper than the END/REC required otherwise. A few continuing charges might be appropriate for Density Increase. With that particular power, I've often found it easier to buy enough DI to get the weight and KB Resistance where it should be and then purchase some more STR and defenses linked to it. Helps with the END cost immensely. If you haven't considered it, an END reserve might be appropriate, if the SFX doesn't involve them being tired the same way you would be after a long sprint. From the sounds of it though, this wouldn't be appropriate for the gadgeteers attack.

Re: Few questions about point costs Up until recently, I have primarily played Dark Champions, where STUN and END aren't much of a concern. Most gunfights were over with a lot of dead bodies before either variable came into play. So I'll share what I came up with when I recently started playing Champions. I would take either character and see what would happen if they fought themselves or a "standard" villain you want them to go toe to toe with. You understand the bell curve, so figure out how many times, on average, a character will be hit in a single Turn, assuming an opponent of average speed. If the average Speed will be 4 and most opponents will have an equal OCV, you might assume 3 hits, for example. Make sure the PCs have enough STUN to survive one Turn of average damage rolls, preferably more like 1.5. Then just figure out how much REC they need to still be standing for however long you think is appropriate. Personally, I aim for combat to be over by Turn 3. Long enough to be satisfying, but not dragging. I see a lot of variance though, based on Move Throughs and clever tactics. END is kind of the same thing. Make sure they can pretty much go all out with powers for one turn before they have to worry about it. Compare REC to this number as well. I realize that's very "build it yourself," but there is so much variance in character builds that it's hard to say definitively. After you season to taste, run one mock combat with the PCs against each other. It will probably expose design weaknesses or STUN/END imbalances before play.

Re: Few questions about point costs Actually, the Impairment rules may be exactly what you're looking for. They aren't permanent--they last a single day at max--but they can certainly do what you are asking for. The Disabling rules, which can be much more permanent and debilitating, need not be used with the Impairing rules. Essentially, the Impairments do what you want, but with some variance. Impaired legs inflicts a -2 DCV penalty and halves their running speed, while an Impaired arm inflicts a -3 OCV penalty when attacking with that arm, as well as inflicting 2D6 NND STUN if they insist on using it anyway. It sounds a little less severe than what your players proposed and has the advantage of being dramatically interesting. Why not give it a test run and see how it plays? Also note that an Impairing shot to the head probably kills any mook, which is a fun side effect.

Re: Looking for alien invader types - 6th Edition Well crap. I'll add it to the list. Thanks for the heads up

Re: Looking for alien invader types - 6th Edition That's a 5E product isn't it? If so, I /think/ I have that floating around on PDF somewhere. I'll have to check when I get home. I wasn't sure if there was a 6E update of them yet--not that it especially matters, on reflection. I know I don't have aliens in either edition though. That is both good and terribad to hear that they're in Champions Beyond. On the one hand, the book looks great. On the other hand, I was trying NOT to find an excuse to buy it. Lol. I already plan on dishing out $100 for the Villains line when I am able--a distinctly painful amount. I kind of wish g-a had a review for the line up, just so I could feel somehow justified with my purchase.

I'm trying to find information on some alien invaders for a Champions plot I have in mind and I'm not sure where to find them. Are the Qular or any others detailed in any of the Champions Villains books? Do I need to look into Champions Beyond instead? If all else fails, I could actually shoehorn DEMON into this plot instead without changing a ton of details (strange, I know), but I'm not sure where to find them either.

Re: Few questions about point costs I didn't really think about the fact that you're converting an existing setting that you already have firmly established in your mind. Given that, having all NPCs created by hand does seem to be the obvious choice. Hero Designer is definitely worth the money. I balked at first when I realized it's only a contract, but when my first contract was up I purchased another without a second thought. Best Hero money I've spent. The fact that you have so many races in this setting reminds me of a technique I came up with for a Star Hero campaign I was sadly never able to run. I have since used it whenever applicable. If I am designing an NPC that is intended to be generic in nature, I realized I can essentially make one sheet represent many characters. The reason being that you aren't creating an opponent to be a certain "level", and they aren't players, so the points simply don't matter. It's easier to explain with an example. Let's say you are creating an example of the race called the Thuomandir, humanoid reptiles, known as much for the innate psionic abilities as they are for their mercantile prowess. In Hero Designer, I would stat them up exactly as I expect an average member of their race to be. Then, Hero Designer allows you to add lists in the Skills tab. So I could create one list containing the skills a Thuomandir merchant has, another list that their front-line soldiers have, and a third that their widespread diplomats possess, just to cover all the basic types. Hero Designer throws a warning at you if you try to purchase the same skill twice, but it will still let you, in case you want two "packages" to have the same skill at different levels, as might be the case with the Persuasion skill. While the merchant is good, the diplomat is likely excellent. Similarly, let's say that most Thuomandir develop telekinetic abilities and they use to great effect in combat. However, a rare few develop no TK, but develop powerful psychic abilities instead. These individuals are trained to be espionage agents or special forces, using their abilities to become invisible, create mental illusions, ect. Since, again, the points don't matter, you can create a Multipower for each. As long as you don't become confused and start mixing and matching during play, it doesn't really matter that it is more like a template than an actual character. This technique has also come in handy if I do want to take the time to actually stat out an important NPC. Open the sheet, delete the irrelevant lists, tweak stats and add powers as necessary, and resave. Creating NPCs or tweaking from a sheet or template you have handy is really easy in the Hero System. You might find that you are able to do that a little faster in this system than you'd expect, simply because of the granularity. It's really easy to name an arbitrary Dexterity number or Acrobatics skill for an NPC you didn't expect your characters to suddenly challenge to a contest because it doesn't directly affect defenses or anything else.

Re: Few questions about point costs Martial Maneuvers definitely have break points at which they tend to start showing diminishing returns. In most cases you can pick one maneuever from each category and call it good. A throw, passing strike, defensive strike, martial dodge and block, ect. After that, having a few CSLs will let you emulate virtually any maneuver you want. However, if you have Hero System Martial Arts, you can create some really interesting conditional maneuevers. "This follows that." Generally, the more maneuevers I have on a character, the less CSLs and more raw CV I tend to have. That's just a personal choice though, to keep things moving quickly. As for campaign averages, that can be a bit tricky, as you've found. What I started doing, particularly with conversions, is this: get the characters mostly created and look at what "tier" the characters fall under, either in point totals or just judging by where they line up with the caps. Then just make an arbitrary decision. "Well, they seem to fall under this tier, which has a suggested CV of 7-13. I'm going to call the average 10 and cap it at 13." Then I take a look at the characters again with this in mind and see what changes, if any, I would like made. The other thing to keep in mind is whether you are creating all opponents yourself or if you will be pulling NPCs from generics in various books. If you know that you will make the average city guard just like the one in Fantasy Hero but with some gun skills and a couple CSLs, it makes it a lot easier. You can compare relative CVs to see how they should compare to an average guard, cop, ect. If this generic individual puts their one CSL in OCV, sets, braces, and fires, how likely should he be to tag this character? If your estimate is off and you realize it in play, you can easily bump up CV a point or two for free. Alternatively, if you're creating all NPCs yourself it is even more arbitrary. You can call that guard elite and remember to bump the next ones down. TPK is really hard in the Hero Setting. You have to messs up pretty bad to have one. Knocked out and captured is somewhat easier... Ps: typing on a phone forgive the typoes

Re: Few questions about point costs A quick note on CVs: my understanding of the bell curve is that once you get to a disparity of 4 points or more between opponents, those on the lower end are grossly outmatched. Keep this in mind when designing the CV disparity between the two characters. If the gadgeteer has an OCV of 7, but the vampire has an OCV of 13, it will be difficult to design opponents that are credible to both. Well, that isn't entirely true: player ingenuity can overcome some of this, whether it be by AoE attacks or the higher OCV character using Entangles, Grabs, or other maneuvers to lower the DCV of opponents for the other character. Still, the wider the disparity between CVs, the narrower the range of CVs the opponents can have. In my experience, it works best if the characters are within about 3 points of one another. Others may vehemently disagree and may feel free to chime in. On the CSL front, I would strongly recommend looking at this thread: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/82091-My-character-building-technique-%28How-to-build-Hero-System-Characters%29?p=2077452#post2077452 (Sorry, I don't know how to build a link in BB code or otherwise.) In it, Tasha describes her excellent character building guidelines. You may not wish to strictly adhere to them, as it may be tedious. On the other hand, it is very helpful when you lack the "stat intuition" you mentioned. Specifically, she mentions how CSLs should affect your consideration of a character's OCV and DCV as well as their damage output. This is because CSLs can also be used to increase the damage of an attack, a fact I often neglect to account for. This often has tragic consequences for what was intended to be my Grand Revolving Door Villain.

Re: Few questions about point costs I'm not going to attempt to multi-quote, as I am very tired and what I want to address is from different posts so I would doubtless mess it up. I'm just going to throw my two cents in on a few areas I think you could address. Most of this has already been covered by Lucius. Skills I will echo the sentiment that you should look into Overall Skill Levels. Given that both of these characters are skill monkeys, this will let you drastically decrease the amount of points spent here. Buy each skill they have at the base level, get enough Skill Levels to raise the vast majority to where they should be in practical use and then just cherry pick one or two that they are exceptional at to spend points on individually. Another point that I didn't see mentioned, though I could have missed it, are Skill Enhancers. These handy dandy abilities make all other abilities of a certain class cheaper. For example, purchasing the "Scientist" Skill Enhancer makes all Science skills cheaper. That one in particular will help the gadgeteer. Though I realize that isn't the particular character having the point total issue, using them on both characters should help with the Point Bloat that you are experiencing as a whole. Of course, this only applies if you don't take the "KS: Shit I Learned As A Vampire" route that Lucius suggested. I would almost certainly suggest doing that for the "PS: Shitty Jobs I Did As A Vampire" skill, so you don't have to take a Professional Skill for every menial thing the character has moonlighted in for a year or decade. Comlications vs Limitations I saw Lucius address this briefly when he mentioned Side Effects. One of the things that I had a bit of trouble grasping when I first came to the Hero System is exactly what should be handled as a Limitation and what should be a Complication. Of course, in many cases it can be either and the philosophy on what qualifies for which varies by the individual. However, I will share my thoughts on the subject. Generally speaking, anything that limits a character's ability to activate or target an ability or suite of abilities is better modeled as Limitations in my opinion. For example, if walking onto consecrated ground causes the vampire to immediately begin taking damage, it is a Complication. If the vampire loses all supernatural abilities while on consecrated ground, instead of or in addition to taking damage, it qualifies as a Limitation. Consider: If the vampire can't use any supernatural powers on anyone with True Faith, it may be better modeled with Limitations on the applicable abilities. If the vampire is psychologically prevented from doing any harm to someone with True Faith, whether by supernatural means or mundane, then a Complication is a better fit. If the vampire can walk into a church but can't mesmerize anyone on the premises, then any and all powers with the Mesmerize SFX (whether it be Mind Control, Mental Illusions, ect) should take the Limitation "Not On Holy Ground". The value of this will vary depending on how common consecrated ground is and how often the characters will be expected to go onto holy ground for one purpose or another. This one could be represented by a Complication designating power loss, going the Limitation route allows you to trim a lot of points off of the vampire and brings the total number of Complications down to a reasonable level as well. This effectively lets you divide it into the categories "stuff I need to remember about his powers" and "stuff that Complicates his life and should come up in stories." Leave the Complications to the realm of DNPCs, Psychological Compulsions (can't cross running water), and Vulnerabilities/Susceptibilities (double damage from blessed weapons, takes damage from holy symbols, ect). Let Limitations on the powers themselves handle when and how he may use them.

Re: Dr. Destroyer or Mechanon?

Re: Dr. Destroyer or Mechanon? It appears I need to spread around some reputation, ect ect. Someone hit Lucius for me? I went ahead and bought the PDF of Champions 6E on your say-so Christopher. It's an interesting read so far, though I admit it cuts against the grain for me to pay that much for an electronic version. It's going to hurt when I turn around and buy the hardcover when they come back into print. Ah well. I'll worry about that then. Now I just need to figure out how to bust my son's character out of Ravenswood Academy so I can do away with that troublesome bit. I am thinking that Mechanon may decide he wants the alien device in Darkstar's chest for some nefarious purpose and begins hunting him. Mechanon's minions are powerful enough that he has to go on the run, being safer in hiding than in one location, no matter how secure. It doesn't really make sense that other heroes with a lot of resources wouldn't simply protect him, but I guess it is a pretty common genre trope to ignore that kind of thing. I considered the idea of him moving from location to location, not so much fighting a guerilla war as trying to stay out of the way while simultaneously foiling Mechanon's various nefarious plots. That doesn't feel very heroic though. The second idea I had was for the computer AI at Ravenswood (Plato) or some other being to somehow divert resources into building him a base. My thought was that it would be neat for him to have some sort of extra-dimensional or otherwise hidden or inaccessible base from which he operates. Anyone have some ideas to help flesh this out? In particular, characters that fit into the CU that might help accomplish this or reasons why he would end up on his own--though possibly with the help of friends he makes later.

Re: Dr. Destroyer or Mechanon? This, my friend, is positively brilliant. Rep coming your way once I get on a real computer. Mechanon it is then. The results were damn near unanimous. Why is Dr. Destroyer boring, out of curiosity? One last question. I bought Champions Universe, which will give me all the gritty backstory I need. However, I didn't pick up the actual Champions book, as it isn't available in hard copy right now. Silly printing clog. If one has the CU book and is fairly familiar with the comic book genre, how necessary or useful is the Champions book? Should I still pick it up down the line?

Re: Dr. Destroyer or Mechanon? I hadn't considered this side of the issue. This allows me to sidestep that morality quandary. Moreover, I can still touch on that aspect during a specific adventure if I so choose, making sure that the choice is one I expect to come up and tailoring the adventure around that question. Does Mechanon use any AI underlings or are they all non-sentient?