Combat and Invisibility Questions

[Kruhl Sentru]

I've made a few characters so far, and I've been preparing to have them battle each other as practice with the 6E HERO combat system. However, I can't seem to find much in the way of rules on how to combat someone that is invisible. So, I'm wondering about a few things: first up, where in volumes 1 and 2 are the rules for targeting someone that's invisible? I found a section on lowered CVs, but not for what happens if you can't tell where the enemy is. If anyone could tell me where the rules are or how to handle this, it would be appreciated.

 

For reference, I've attached the 2 characters that I plan on having battle it out this round. The first, which I named Poltergeist (the file named Evahn Sentru 2), is always invisible to both sight and sound sense groups, and all his powers are also invisible, including his attacks. The second character is Poltergeist's nemesis, which I named Double Team, who is a sort of ninja type character that can have a single duplicate of himself. Of course, all of double team's damage won't help him if he can't even land a blow on Poltergeist, which is why I'm trying to figure that out.

 

While I'm at it, I had a bit of a question regarding those OCV changes when targeting a character you can't see. I know that a melee attack is at 1/2 OCV, and a ranged attack is at 0 OCV, but what I don't know is how to handle Double Team's passing strike attack. I think it's technically a melee attack, but if you started at range and then used the full move component to close in with the enemy (especially when you don't even know where the enemy is), is that going to be using the melee or ranged combat modifier?

 

In any case, thanks for the help all of you have offered so far. Being able to ask questions has really cut down on the learning curve of the HERO System.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Combat and Invisibility Questions

 

Well, if you really have absolutely no idea where an opponent is, you'd pretty much have to guess where to attack and hope that you're right. That should be pretty easy. Just have the character pick a direction, and if it's not the direction the opponent is in (or the opponent is out of range), they miss. If the attacker guesses correctly, use the rules described in 6E2 p. 7 (1/2 OCV for HTH, 0 OCV for Range--the character must have failed with the Non-Targeting Per roll since he doesn't have a clue where the opponent is). If, on the other hand, the attacker has some kind of idea where the opponent is, just use the rules given for CV and Non-Targeting Senses, without making the character guess arbitrarily.

[Tasha]

Re: Combat and Invisibility Questions

 

6e2 125-126 I think the real answer is that it depends on the GM. If the target hasn't done anything to show their general location (ie used a visible power or has an invisibility that you can percieve with one of your non targeting senses) then I would say that you don't have any clue what so ever where the target is and you have no target. Otherwise I would probably allow you to make the non targeting roll vs melee if you are doing the moveby/through.

 

BTW assuming that this is a 400pt Champions character that lives in the Champions Universe. I am going to tell you how I would evaluate the character as a GM.

 

Poltergeist

1) Only one real attack and it is VERY ineffective. Against yourself it would do 0 body and only do minimal stun (10 stun on a maximum roll). it's also 10 pts over the point cap for powers

2) Defenses are OK, but might be a bit low in a supers game that averaged DC 10-12 (DC 10 does 35 stun on averaga and DC 12 does 42 stun on average) I recommend getting your defenses to 25

3) Your Con is VERY low. That same DC 10 average roll of 35 will stun you 100% of the time, ie 35-22= 13 which exceeds your Con, which will make you lose your next phase while recovering from being stunned and 1/2 DCV till you can recover from being stunned. 6e2 104 For a supers game I recommend a con of 18 as minimum.

4) Your DMCV is a bit high, most mentalists don't have more than 7-8 OMCV and since mentalists are pretty rare, it might not be worth spending points there

5) Spending 6 points on DEX will give all of your DEX based skills a +1 (12-), 16 pts will give a +2 (ie 13-), Also allow your character to go earlier in the dex order etc.

6) Your SPD is probably a bit low, Most CU campaigns average spd 5 for non-bricks (ie high defense/High damage characters).

7) A character who is always invisible and mute has limited Role Playing possiblities. The character is a decent assassin, but doesn't really have much of anything that would be playable as a Player Character. Though with Code vs Killing he isn't much of an assassin either.

8) Distinctive Feature Invisible seems to be a bit of an oxymoron, The character can't be seen or heard he has no features to be distinctive. it seems to be a bit of a stretch.

 

Ninja Doubleteam

1) DCV is low

2) OCV is low

3) Defenses are Lowish

4) Ninja stars won't do anything but waste a phase against a super like P-geist.

 

 

What will happen between the two is easy. it comes down to who makes the good roll on the stun multiplier before getting bodied out one and two body/phase (on phases where the KA's body doesn't completly bounce). The ninja twins will probably be best if they wait for PG to attack them, then use team work with their ninja blades to down PG on hopefully a lucky roll on the Stun mod. Otherwise PG will use his TK to remove the twin's foci (only -2 OCV to do so, with a really good chance to succeed (20 str vs the twin's 15)

 

 

This character is what a lot of my characters look like when I first or second draft them. I have a neat power conception, but paying for it and being able to participate in combat are something that cannot meet.

 

So Tasha's Making champions Characters 101

1 First come up with a good Conception

2 Write the character keeping in mind Campaign power levels (ie CV average, Damage average(ie , Defense average (which is 2x- 2.5x Damage Average) DC average, etc)

3) Make sure said character has at least one power that throws damage that does Normal or Mental damage in the ball park of the DC average(Killing attacks don't count here). Otherwise you end up with a character that is worthless against opponents that have the defense for your attack)

4) Have defenses that are near the campaign average (more if character's spd is lower than campaign average, less if the character is higher)

5) Have a movement power that is as powerful as your attacks (your opponent will).

6) Be willing to make slight sacrifices in character conception to make a playable character.

7) Make a character that will add to the Role Playing fun and not take away from it.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Combat and Invisibility Questions

 

I've made a few characters so far' date=' and I've been preparing to have them battle each other as practice with the 6E HERO combat system. However, I can't seem to find much in the way of rules on how to combat someone that is invisible. S[b']o, I'm wondering about a few things: first up, where in volumes 1 and 2 are the rules for targeting someone that's invisible?[/b] I found a section on lowered CVs, but not for what happens if you can't tell where the enemy is. If anyone could tell me where the rules are or how to handle this, it would be appreciated.

 

For reference, I've attached the 2 characters that I plan on having battle it out this round. The first, which I named Poltergeist (the file named Evahn Sentru 2), is always invisible to both sight and sound sense groups, and all his powers are also invisible, including his attacks. The second character is Poltergeist's nemesis, which I named Double Team, who is a sort of ninja type character that can have a single duplicate of himself. Of course, all of double team's damage won't help him if he can't even land a blow on Poltergeist, which is why I'm trying to figure that out.

 

While I'm at it, I had a bit of a question regarding those OCV changes when targeting a character you can't see. I know that a melee attack is at 1/2 OCV, and a ranged attack is at 0 OCV, but what I don't know is how to handle Double Team's passing strike attack. I think it's technically a melee attack, but if you started at range and then used the full move component to close in with the enemy (especially when you don't even know where the enemy is), is that going to be using the melee or ranged combat modifier?

 

In any case, thanks for the help all of you have offered so far. Being able to ask questions has really cut down on the learning curve of the HERO System.

You kinda answered your own question, there.

[Kruhl Sentru]

Re: Combat and Invisibility Questions

 

Thanks for the tips. I'll have to go back over and see what I can do about making some better characters. I have been getting better, though. Usually I have trouble staying under 500, none the less 400, so this was an improvement actually lol.

[Tasha]

Re: Combat and Invisibility Questions

 

Thanks for the tips. I'll have to go back over and see what I can do about making some better characters. I have been getting better' date=' though. Usually I have trouble staying under 500, none the less 400, so this was an improvement actually lol.[/quote']

 

Yeah, coming under the point cap is part of the character gen mini game Also it's really hard to make characters in a vacuum, it really helps to have a solid campaign to build the characters for.

 

Good Luck and I hope to see some of your future characters

 

Tasha