Teleport and Clairsentience

[GAZZA]

OK, I thought I had this understood, but Champions Powers is throwing me for a loop.

 

My question is fairly simply put: can you use Clairsentience to perceive your desired location to Teleport to? I was previously of the opinion that you couldn't, based on the following:

• Clairsentience isn't Targetting (6e1pp179), and even if you make it Targetting it still can't establish LOS.
  
• "Viewing a location by television (or similar means) doesn't count as perceiving ..." (6e1pp300). Many Clairsentience sfx are conceptually similar to television.
  
• You cannot study a location with Clairsentience to set it up as your floater (6e1pp301)
  

This combination led me to the conclusion - possibly erroneous - that you cannot use Clairsentience to establish the location you wish to Teleport to.

 

However, in Champions Powers pp79, the Stepping Through Shadows variant "Big Steps III" (a megascaled Teleport) says that you can use a power like "Eyes of the Shadow" to perceive the target area. Which is, of course, a Clairsentience power.

 

I'll put this in context. I have some NPC robotic aliens in my Champions campaign that have the power to teleport thousands of light years, built as:

 

Teleportation 10m, Megascale (1m=1000 light years; +5), Activation 11- (-1/2), Side Effect 4d6 RKA (-1)

 

This is 30 active points, 12 real.

 

At the moment, the tricky part is the ability to see their destination. I built this as:

 

Teleport Sensor: Detect precise location to teleport to (mental group), discriminatory, analyze, targetting [base 23]; Megascale (1m=100 lightyears +4 3/4), extra time 1 year to activate (-3), costs END to activate (-1/4)

 

132 active points, 31 real points, with no discernable use other than to make sure the teleport doesn't miss. (This is based on a similar power someone else posted on the forum; I have lost the original reference, but please do not take this as an implication of plagiarism).

 

It would be very nice to be able to do it with Clairsentience, even if the cost doesn't work out any cheaper.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

This combination led me to the conclusion - possibly erroneous - that you cannot use Clairsentience to establish the location you wish to Teleport to.

 

Hmmm. You can blind teleport; you have to roll to hit the location you're teleporting to (its DCV is 3; you're at -5 to your OCV plus standard range modifier). I would say the use for Clairsentience would be more to establish what's there. You could also buy +5 PSLs with Blind Teleport, with the special effect of "I'm clairvoyantly scanning the place I want to teleport to." And don't forget Safe Blind Teleport (+1/4).

 

Also note that with the Gate Limitation, you can both see and attack through the gate. With that, especially if the special effect for your Clairsentience is "I open up a miniature teleport gate to look at my destination before I teleport there", I as GM would have no problem with it.

 

Sounds like you might want to post in Rules Questions. I suspect the answer will be some combination of "If the GM allows it" and "Common sense, dramatic sense, and game balance apply."

[GAZZA]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

The range modifier for a 1000 light year blind teleport is kind of hard to make.

 

While the teleport in my case isn't a gate, I believe you still need to be able to see the target location to open a Gate and I'm also not sure you can open a Gate and not step through.

 

I'd ask it in the Rules Questions but Steve is likely to just respond "No". I'm interested in the reasoning.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

Remember that MegaScale (MetaRange that is) also changes the scale for the range modifier. So a power that's MegaScaled to 1m -> 1km gets -2 range modifier at 8km, not 8m.

 

I've always thought the rule about not being able to set a Floating Location via Clairsentience is stupid. I might require some extra time to for it, but I generally allow it. I suppose it might depend a little on the game and the circumstances too, though. If the SFX of setting a Floating Location meant you had to perform some sort of little ritual at the location, Clairsentience might not cut it after all.

[GAZZA]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

Yeah, but does it change the range modifier for a PER roll? That seems unbalancing; it basically means if you have a megascaled Teleport you get megascaled sight for free.

[Starcloud]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

Why would it? It lets you change the range modifier for a blind teleport only (6e1 page 300 second column, fourth paragraph). Reread the Perceiving the Target Location section. Nowhere does it say that the Perception roll uses the same range modifiers as the Teleport power you're making the check for. Also check 6e1 page 302 for the Megascale description; again, it separates the Sense / Perception roll used from the Megascale advantage as used with Teleport.

You'd still need a Megascaled Sense in order to avoid mistargeting or teleporting blind.

[GAZZA]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

Yes, that was certainly the way I read it.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

Perhaps the easiest way it just to buy 'targeting' for your clairsentience?

 

Anyhoo - thing about space is that it is big, and empty, so blind teleporting is not risky. Couple that with some astro-navigation skill and you are good. Well, you are good if you buy the megascale teleport so that the megascale can be scaled down: first you teleport to hit the solar system, then the inner planets, then Earth orbit then the surface. You might need some life support with that. I'm assuming these guys have a map.

[GAZZA]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

Yes, I agree, that's the way I'd do it if I were a PC. But given that the teleport for these dudes includes an activation roll and enough of an RKA to be basically fatal if they fail, they don't really want to muck about with multiple jumps.

 

If Targetting Clairsentience can do the trick though, that's certainly a much more intuitive construct than what I currently have. It's not the cost so much - it's an NPC, it can cost whatever it costs - more interested in the general philosophy of "how do you target Teleports that are megascaled", as there seems to be few examples.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

Yes, I agree, that's the way I'd do it if I were a PC. But given that the teleport for these dudes includes an activation roll and enough of an RKA to be basically fatal if they fail, they don't really want to muck about with multiple jumps.

 

If Targetting Clairsentience can do the trick though, that's certainly a much more intuitive construct than what I currently have. It's not the cost so much - it's an NPC, it can cost whatever it costs - more interested in the general philosophy of "how do you target Teleports that are megascaled", as there seems to be few examples.

 

You can certainly add 'targeting' to clairsentience, and you do not need a line of sight to teleport, so I'd call it good.

 

Other ideas worth considering, assuming their mates are already on Earth to place them, is floating or fixed locations for the teleport, or building it as a teleport gate, a la Stargate.

 

Actually I like the 'floating/fixed location' thing - build them through a focus and then the PCs could defeat the invasion by tracking down and destroying all the Subspace Translator Alert Repeaters (STARs) that the robo-aliens bought with them.

[GAZZA]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

Interesting you should say that.

 

The robots in question have the ability to construct a Gate that allows them to come through enmasse, but it's a time consuming operation that requires a lot of rare and exotic materials to do so. The Megascale Teleport power is basically only used to establish an "advance guard", so to speak, since it's risky and often fatal.

 

I will certainly use Targetting Clairsentience - seems like a much better way to do it. I'm not sure what you're referring to by the floating location though. As I understand it, Teleport specifically forbids using Clairsentience to establish a floating point. Can you construct a floating point for somebody else? Transfer it through a Mind Link? That sort of thing?

[prestidigitator]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

This is starting to sound like the Riftwar Saga, only with robots. Heh heh.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

The "Television Teleport" power on 6E1 p. 302 includes a note: "assumes the GM allows him to establish LOS with Clairsentience". Clairsentience can establish LOS if the GM allows it. To me, this sounds like a reasonable enough usage for Clairsentience that I would be inclined to allow it.

 

The answer to the question you posed in the original post:

 

can you use Clairsentience to perceive your desired location to Teleport to?

 

is, if you're the GM you can allow this. If you're the player, ask your GM. The rules aren't supposed to be constraints that we fight against; they're here to help us. It's certainly not breaking the rules for the GM to allow something where it says in the book "You can't do this unless the GM says you can". The answer to the question "Can I do [this thing I'm describing]" can very well be "No, because the GM doesn't allow it," but should never be "No, because the rules don't allow it."

 

I will certainly use Targetting Clairsentience - seems like a much better way to do it. I'm not sure what you're referring to by the floating location though. As I understand it, Teleport specifically forbids using Clairsentience to establish a floating point. Can you construct a floating point for somebody else? Transfer it through a Mind Link? That sort of thing?

 

You can build a Floating Location into a Focus. Seems to me you could probably give that Focus to someone else to use.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

Well written, Chris. Wish I had some rep to give you, but alas you've been too deserving of late.

[GAZZA]

Re: Teleport and Clairsentience

 

The "Television Teleport" power on 6E1 p. 302 includes a note: "assumes the GM allows him to establish LOS with Clairsentience". Clairsentience can establish LOS if the GM allows it. To me' date=' this sounds like a reasonable enough usage for Clairsentience that I would be inclined to allow it.[/quote']

In fact as Sean pointed out above you don't need LOS for Teleport anyway; you just need to be able to perceive it with a targetting sense. Obviously I'll have to buy targetting for clairsentience (unlike other sense powers it doesn't get that for free with sight), but other than that this definitely seems the cleaner way to do it.

 

is, if you're the GM you can allow this. If you're the player, ask your GM. The rules aren't supposed to be constraints that we fight against; they're here to help us. It's certainly not breaking the rules for the GM to allow something where it says in the book "You can't do this unless the GM says you can". The answer to the question "Can I do [this thing I'm describing]" can very well be "No, because the GM doesn't allow it," but should never be "No, because the rules don't allow it."

Well yes, of course, but I was more interested in how other people did similar things (the question arises for any long range teleport - the light years version I'm doing is merely an extreme case).

 

You can build a Floating Location into a Focus. Seems to me you could probably give that Focus to someone else to use.

Ah! Indeed you could. Very clever.