“What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

[Martin2]

I am new to 6th edition and running heroes in general. I am GMing a game and have been effectively been creating the characters for the players with more or less input from each one.

 

One player gave me the outline of “What hurts me makes me stronger”. A character that can absorb damage thrown at him and then use it back at whoever he wants. So I built a character around Absorption with high resistant PD and ED and also damage resistant:

 

Absorption Physical / Energy 20 x 4 storage and resistant protection (½ to strength, ¼ to stun ¼ to body) – 45 points each (The theory being that he will possibly get to 20D6 damage when at full power based on 20 start strength).

Damage resistance 50% - 30 points

etc

 

Effectively 200 points characteristics 160 powers and 40 skills / advantages). But in the combat he was not getting anywhere near serious damage absorption so not knocking people over fast enough. His power trick is a move through attack to do more damage due to acceleration as well as absorbing the damage into his strength. Last night he was playing VIPER skittles taking two agents in a combined move through and bouncing them off walls with the knock back .

 

The other characters have powers in multi powers will now gain lots of new powers at 10 points from 1 experience and lag behind with his 1:1 advancement.

 

Can anyone suggest powers that would simulate absorption effect in a multi power that could be combined with defensive powers but be more cost effective for character points and experience advancement?

 

Thanks for any help.

[Christopher]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

I am not certain I really understand that buildup. Could you please make a more readable writeout?

 

Also, could you give an example how you calculate the effect of an attack (e.g. when do you aply what). Absorption/Adjustment Powers have a lot of special rules, especially when used with Power Frameworks (Multipower and VPP).

[Martin2]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

Yes it’s a bit confusing.

It was just a general help on a few ideas to reduce the points in the absorption and possibly link it with a few suggestions to have a "multipower" connected drain / attack.

My problem being defences do not fit very well into a multipower for variability and easy to build other powers in it.

If I put the absorption into the multipower I have a limit of 60 points which will reduce absorption but also limit anything else linked to it.

I have 90 points in Absorption which gives 20 points of resistant defence ED PD and that also gives a boost to attack after being hit lots of times (in this case a potential of another 160 character points).

Can anyone suggest a route that gives defence which can then simulate this absorption to a different power to simulate an attack that can be rerouted to different powers?

The theme being you hit me and I get more powerful.

I will just have to shave points off the Absorption and put them into a multipower attack somehow.

I was hoping for a few ideas.

[Christopher]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

If I put the absorption into the multipower I have a limit of 60 points which will reduce absorption but also limit anything else linked to it.

I have 90 points in Absorption which gives 20 points of resistant defence ED PD and that also gives a boost to attack after being hit lots of times (in this case a potential of another 160 character points).

That is the first possible mistake: Absorption does not negate any damage normally. Frankly the name is a nis-nomer. Triggered AID (maximum X Pionts per Segment) would be more fitting.

Also I don't know how you got to 90 Active Pionts (if that are active Pionts).

 

That is why I asked for a reable writeout, preferebly this format:

Effect (i.e. Absoprtion 20 E/20 P), Base Points (i.e. 40 BP), Advantages (double maximum Effect, +1/4), Active Pionts (i.e. 50 AP), Limitations (if any), Real Piont Cost (before aplying Multipower divisor, i.e. 50 RC).

 

Adjustment Powers affacting multiple/different powers: See "Expanded Effect" and "Variable Effect", but even that is limited to some basic categories (Like only Defenses, only Charakteristics, or only Powers with similar Special effect like "Fire Powers").

[Martin2]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

Absorption 20 ED double maximum effect (+1/4) Resistant defence (+1) - cost 45

Absorption 20 PD double maximum effect (+1/4) Resistant defence (+1) - cost 45

What I have allowed is that they are effectively both bought separately for my 60 / 70 point limit for powers but I am considering them one power so that they both feed into Strength, body and stun and are not separate for stacking limits. I am sure other GM’s would not allow this.

So really it is a 90 pointer combined power with the resistant defence a very cheap option for protection.

[Christopher]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

Yes, it is indeed a little bit overpowered. And it get's worse when you want to add Variable/Expanded Effect. Also, it totally ties up 90-piont Multipower reserve.

 

Especially for a game in that I am new, the last thing I would try is to ignore the active pionts limits. Ignoring them can be fun at first, but in the end you will need equally unbalanced oponents to chalang your players. This is just a a personal opinion, when you tink it works better for your group just ignore the guidelines (that's what Mr. Long himself wrote).

 

Perhaps something to limit the real (but not the active) costs of such a power:

OIAID/OIHID or a simple Multiform may help. Especially when you put some limitations on the Multiform. The downside of putting limitations on powers: You basically request your GM to have them taken from you some times. It the same thing with Complications: You get the pionts, for asking the gm to make this part of the character a part of the story. To have it exploited by some enemy, even unintentionally.

[The Nexus]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

I've seen a lot of players want to play this type of character and they usually regret it. It works in the comics because the writers make them work, in game play however, not so much. We had a character that every time you hit him, he grew (Absorption to Growth). The problem was when the fight started he was throwing around 6d6 punches. Now you're a villain and you're fighting 4 heroes, are you going to punch the guy that keeps hurting his hand every time he hits you, or the 3 that are blasting holes through your forcefield? Let's pretend for a minute that you decide to swat the non-damaging guy away just to get rid of him, now he comes back bigger and stronger, would a villain really hit the guy again?

 

My suggestion to you is to convince the player to try something else. If that fails don't use absorption. Raise his defenses, and use a multipower that looks something like this:

 

+60 STR Only when hit, and only +5 for every DC hit with

12d6 Energy Blast Variable SFX (must mimic SFX of attacking power) Only up to amount hit with

 

Things like that.

[Christopher]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

About absoprtion to growth:

It's perhaps is not that critical. Posibilly you overlooked some rules:

First, growth costs Endurance while used. When you aid it to higher Active Points, it cost's more Endurance.

If you add no endurance, it increases the active point costs by 50%. So even Enormous (Level 2) cost you already 75 active Pionts. To get to Huge(level 3), you have to aid it by 45 Active Pionts to get 120 total Active Pionts. And for level 4 (Gigantic) you have to aid a total of 105 Active Pionts to get to 180. And absoprtion can't aid more than 2 or 4 times it's the body it's bought for...

 

Second, the Body increase is only as long as growth stays improved, so when you take to many injuries that aren't healed when the aid fades away....

 

Third, STR still cost its normal END to use and asuming he mostly used his STR to increase his damage, that would cost him a lot too (in adition to the per phase cost of growth).

 

Fourth: Say hello to my tank-batallion (with the amor piercing, hero killing rounds), who can add +2 to + 6 OCV against you now...

[Martin2]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

OK I have thought about it and I am thinking of the following:

 

Multipower 45

Absorption 15 ED double maximum effect (+1/4) Resistant defence (+1) - cost 34 / 7V

Absorption 15 PD double maximum effect (+1/4) Resistant defence (+1) - cost 34 / 7V

 

This gives the option of having 20 points of absorption split between PD /ED and up to 15 of one and 5 of the other.

 

10 resistant ED - cost 15

10 resistant PD - cost 15

 

To compensate for the reduced 10 PD / ED resistant armour.

 

This will give some flexibility and a possibility of increasing Absorption and the multipower.

 

All for 89 points.

[Christopher]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

I don't think I would allow this either. After all, most enemys tend to have either Energy or Physical attacks, they don't normally mix them. So having to choose if I want a higher PD or higher ED would not be a "real" hinderance.

It's a little bit like putting not combat relevant powers in a Multipower: when you will never ever have to choose between powers since you never actually could need them simultaniously, why should you get them cheaper?

[The Nexus]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

About absoprtion to growth:

It's perhaps is not that critical. Posibilly you overlooked some rules:

First, growth costs Endurance while used. When you aid it to higher Active Points, it cost's more Endurance.

If you add no endurance, it increases the active point costs by 50%. So even Enormous (Level 2) cost you already 75 active Pionts. To get to Huge(level 3), you have to aid it by 45 Active Pionts to get 120 total Active Pionts. And for level 4 (Gigantic) you have to aid a total of 105 Active Pionts to get to 180. And absoprtion can't aid more than 2 or 4 times it's the body it's bought for...

 

Second, the Body increase is only as long as growth stays improved, so when you take to many injuries that aren't healed when the aid fades away....

 

Third, STR still cost its normal END to use and asuming he mostly used his STR to increase his damage, that would cost him a lot too (in adition to the per phase cost of growth).

 

Fourth: Say hello to my tank-batallion (with the amor piercing, hero killing rounds), who can add +2 to + 6 OCV against you now...

Right, except I wasn't using 6th ed at the time so the rules were different, and that really has absolutely nothing to do with the point of my post. I'll simplify it:

These types of characters rarely work out in play. They seem like a lot of fun in concept, but in actual use they're too limiting. You really have a couple of options, none of them very appealing:

1. Do less than the campaign minimum damage at the beginning so you can "grow" into the campaign average and/or max

2. Do the campaign minimum and go from there.

 

With number 1 you run into the problem my other post was talking about. You won't do enough to make anyone mad enough to hit you to power you up, and if you do, they'll only hit you once when they learn it makes you stronger.

With number two, the GM either lets you have the potential to go past the campaign max damage, which can be potentially unbalancing, or cap you at the campaign max, which would basically take away most of the flavor of the character. He already does okay damage, and his absorption only increases a few DC.

[The Nexus]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

I don't think I would allow this either. After all, most enemys tend to have either Energy or Physical attacks, they don't normally mix them. So having to choose if I want a higher PD or higher ED would not be a "real" hinderance.

It's a little bit like putting not combat relevant powers in a Multipower: when you will never ever have to choose between powers since you never actually could need them simultaniously, why should you get them cheaper?

 

You're assuming he's always going to be fighting one bad guy. Even so, there are literally dozens of published characters that have both energy and physical attacks.

 

If your heart is set on Absorption, this is probably the best way to go, although I would still recommend finding other ways to accomplish the same thing.

[Martin2]

Re: “What hurts me makes me stronger powers”!

 

Thanks for the various feedback.

I run the game and I am trying to give the player help to expand the character. He wanted the ultimate damage absorbing and to feed this back. Currently he can take lots of damage(30 ED PD) but as mentioned he does not give much damage back as it takes a while for his absorption to get to any decent level. As you say it works in the comics but does not work with the Hero game mechanics. I think he got the idea from the comics and is now learning the game mechanics does not work.

But he is enjoying the run they are currently having against VIPER agents I was just was trying to try and get feedback from more experienced players to keep with the concept but give him more options when they take on more powerful villains.

I will probably go with the variable multipower so he can change his defence / absorption to meet the ED / PD situation he is in and just put all the absorbed damage into strength so he does more damage. I am the GM so I can change the character if he wants to.