How unbalancing would this be...?

[zornwil]

Well, FWIW, I don't see a problem with SPD > 12 for a villain if the heroes are suitably powerful. I messed around a bit a long time back with such, really didn't seem like an issue.

 

If it's one of the PCs, that's hairier just on the game-playing level if the others aren't around 8+. As someone else mentioned, they just end up dominating the action.

[NuSoardGraphite]

Does it work?

 

It most certainly does. All those of you who think it doesn't work are flat out wrong. It works exactly as the rest of the speed chart does except you go multiple times in a segment (or rather you get 2 or more phases in a segment in which your speed score overlaps). As to the question of "who goes first?" when using speed scores that exceed 12, that would be up to the GM but a good and simple rule to use is to have everyone go first in their normal order, then have those who gain an additional phase that segment go again.

 

Easy.

 

Its not broken. It doesn't mess with the mechanics of the game at all.

 

Is it unbalanced?

 

HELL YEAH IT IS!.

 

If you have characters who are running around at speeds 5-7 and you have one guy with a speed of 18 or 24, that is just too much. Sure its the only way to get an accurate representation of ultra-fast characters like The Flash and Supes (if you can call any game-based representation of completely fictional characters "accurate") but its just not gonna work well with the rest of the group.

 

The best excuse I've seen not to use it here was the poster who said that such a character would monopolize the GM's time during combat...and thats all too true.

 

Yes, the mechanics of speeds above 12 work perfectly (I've played with a GM who routinely allowed such characters) but unless everyone is near the same speed levels, it will likely take away some of the fun for the rest of the group to do so.

 

On the other hand, a NPC-Villian with a speed score exceeding 12 would be very, very scary. Especially if the PC's aren't anywhere near that fast.

[Toadmaster]

Re: How unbalancing would this be...?

 

Originally posted by jallen0002

SPDs above 12.

 

Each SPDs above twelve simply gives you an extra action in the phase approriate added for the SPD.

 

Thus, SPD 13 get two actions in the Appropriate SPD 1 phase. One for the SPD 12 and one for the SPD 1.

 

So SPD 15 would be an extra action 4 8 12.

 

It seems like a decent way to add on, wrapping the SPD around as often as you can spend the points, since in theory in a world of superpowers there are all sorts of effects that could give a character this kind of SPD. Jeremy

 

I think this is how I would do it, just like military time (1300 hrs etc) but on a speed chart, subtract 12 from the characters speed and those are the phases he gets 2 actions. I'd allow the first at Dex and the second after all other characters moved. I see no reason to mess with the speed chart since this should be very rare, for one thing it is insanely expensive, not just in speed but also in support (increased endurance and REC or 0 end on many powers). I have made one "Flash" type character speed 9 and I didn't find he worked very well, too much was invested in that speed to allow the rest of the character to develop.

 

As many have already mentioned this should be rare if allowed at all and there are going to be better ways to do this for most occasions, the character you are describing is one of those situations, there have been several suggestions I think would handle you need better. OTOH if you have players who are building characters with Speed in the 9-12 range it might be worth a shot just to teach them a lesson.

[Insaniac99]

I'd allow it, and I don't think it is unbalanced, because while he is spening the hundreds of points on speed and/or dex, he is losing out in the damage, DEX, or defense department.

 

if the character spend points buying up his dex then he will have eith low damage or low defenses, or middling of both. so the PCs can take him out, since the brick will either be able to ignore the damge, and most bricks have some AOE attacks, so taht takes care fo the dex. low def? then any AOE will take him out...

 

and so on.. there are better uses for teh points it will cost and the dex, half dex, and so on method that someoen mentioned would be perfect...

[Farkling]

The necessity for a SPD rating over 12 iz a sign of powers inflation and/or reasoning from powers instead of special effects. The same thing which causes the large discrepancies in the net book of heroes.

 

Multpile Attacks are handled quit well with Rapid Fire, AutoFire, and for crowds, Area Effects.

 

The ability to multiply dodge in a phase is simulated by raw DEX, Dodge, Defensive Skill Levels, Martial Block. More extreme cases can be simulated with Missile Deflection, Desolidification, and limited Force Fields.

 

Disassembling an engine in a few seconds is a Transform attack. (Cumulative, AE, Major Transform all as GM requires)

 

A SPD 12 character with a high DEX and Rapid Fire effects should be terrifying, unles your PC's all have Speeds of 8 or better,

 

However, if your bricks are running around with SPDs of 8, you have an inflation problem happening.

 

Say you build Nick Fury (SPD 4 NCM or SPD 5), and then he becomes the benchmark the heroes are built against. If Nick was built with SPD 7, then your world is already suffering from inflation, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer will have a SPD 7, in spite of only being marginalloy superhuman. In my experience, one of the biggest problems in HERO is the lack of characters who actually DO abort phases. The amount of new HERO players I have met that KNOW a succesful Block let's them act first on the next phase is mimimal. Most of the players I run across seem to suffer from D20 "stand here and slug it out"

 

I still believe that a well built villain will hold his own just fine against PC's without resorting to such obvious ploys as "of course he can, he has a SPD of 15" - where's the design and drama in that? It is no more dramatic than the villain with a 30d6 EB in a 15d6 game.

 

Just my .02

[NuSoardGraphite]

I agree with Farkling wholeheartedly.

 

I believe "over-inflation" to be a problem in many Hero-based campaigns. One of the first groups I played with had this problem in a bad way. Most characters had speeds of 7 and 8, including the Bricks.

 

I remember one game session where my character was killed, and the GM asked me how my character was killed by a "measly" 4D6 killing attack. He couldn't believe that my character only had 6pts of resistant defenses (when her Force Field was inactive...with it active, it was 16pd/ed) and when I told him that high defenses weren't a part of my characters concept, he just looked at me with a blank expression on his face. Apparently, he couldn't fathom an energy projector (or any character) with Resistant defenses less than 20pd/ed!

So just to mess with his head, I made my next character an adolescent Mentalist with no resistant defenses and a STR of 5. But it didn't help much considering everyone and I mean absolutely everyone in the campaign (even scrubbs) had at least 20pts of Mental Defense (though, AP Mind Control worked very well)

 

I feel that if you keep characteristics at reasonable levels, then characters that are supposed to be superior or special in one specific attribute will be so. If the average speed in a campaign is 4-5, then someone with a speed of 7 is incredibly fast. If the average STR is 15, then a STR of 30 is something special. If defenses are kept reasonable (10 resistant, 20 non-resistant) then attacks don't have to be capable of slagging tanks to do proper damage, and Bricks (20+ resistant defenses) will be incredibly tough...as they should be. "Over-inflation" of characteristics makes the various archtypes less special because everyone will be performing at near-similar levels. If Mentalist has a Dex of 20, then Martial Artist needs a Dex of 30 and Speedster needs a Dex of 35 to seem special. If Energy Projector has a STR of 25, then Martial Artist needs a STR of 30 to perform up to specs and Brick needs a STR of 60 or better for the ratio to seem right.

 

Don't mean to hijack the topic and turn it into NCM vs Inflated Characteristics debate, but the issue of Speeds exceeding 12 is symptomatic of that very problem...