Spell Skills

[shinrin]

In the Fantasy Hero rulebook, there is a section that discusses using a Spell Skill system. Instead of the PC paying for points in the actual spell, he actually buys a Skill with the spell instead. Of course this assumes that the GM has a bunch of spells already worked out or he can use spells in the FH Grimoire.

 

I kind of like this method of having PC spellcasters buy spells using a skill, like Fireball Skill etc.,

 

The only problem I see is if after a while the PC spellcaster gains some XP and wants to make changes to the actual spell, how would a GM handle that, since the only points the PC spellcaster actually spent is points in a Skill for the original spell?

 

Should the GM just charge the difference between the Real Cost of the original spell and the new Real Cost of the improved spell? Of couse, the PC would probably have to make some Spell Research rolls and spend some gold in materials etc., to justify the actual change in the spell.

 

What does the community think?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Spell Skills

 

Originally posted by shinrin

In the Fantasy Hero rulebook, there is a section that discusses using a Spell Skill system. Instead of the PC paying for points in the actual spell, he actually buys a Skill with the spell instead. Of course this assumes that the GM has a bunch of spells already worked out or he can use spells in the FH Grimoire.

 

I kind of like this method of having PC spellcasters buy spells using a skill, like Fireball Skill etc.,

 

The only problem I see is if after a while the PC spellcaster gains some XP and wants to make changes to the actual spell, how would a GM handle that, since the only points the PC spellcaster actually spent is points in a Skill for the original spell?

 

Should the GM just charge the difference between the Real Cost of the original spell and the new Real Cost of the improved spell? Of couse, the PC would probably have to make some Spell Research rolls and spend some gold in materials etc., to justify the actual change in the spell.

 

What does the community think?

 

Just make the spell, and buy a new skill with the variant. Youre only paying 3 points for it, so the player cant complain too much.

[shinrin]

Re: Re: Spell Skills

 

Originally posted by Killer Shrike

Just make the spell, and buy a new skill with the variant. Youre only paying 3 points for it, so the player cant complain too much.

 

Hmmm. I could see that if the player was adding on a new Advantage, but it would seem redundant if in fact all the player wanted to do was add onto the base power. For example, lets say that the player had a Fireball Skill and the spell was written up as a 6d6 EB AOE 3" Radius (+1) with the usual suspects of standard fantasy spell Limitations (Gestures, Incantations, Expendable Focus etc.,). Later, the player wants to spend some XP and only wants to add +2d6 to the spell. To buy a new skill for the new 8d6 Fireball skill and still have a 6d6 Fireball skill just seems redundant when both are fundamentally the same spell. The player would probably never use the skill for the lesser Active Point spell ever again and would pretty much kiss those 3+ points goodbye. Now, if the player added on Armor Piercing, Autofire or Penetrating etc., the new spell would be a different spell altogether with a different function. The player may still never use the older Fireball Skill (unless he was hurting for END during a combat), in lieu of the newer improved Fireball skill.

 

I think it would be better if somehow the player could just enchance the existing spell skill without doing a whole new skill. There may be circumstances that would warrant a whole new skill and still keeping and using the old one. Maybe my example of a Fireball skill is too narrow-minded. Is there a bigger picture that is escaping me?

[Killer Shrike]

Not really. There should be a difference btwn a "Lesser" and "Greater" version of spell even if its just more damage/effect.

 

Otherwise, you cant really have many more spells than there are Base Powers in the HERO System.

[Killer Shrike]

Keep in mind that the characters are already getting an enourmous bargain in a Spell Skill system. Making them spend a few extra points for a beefed up spell is negligible when compared to what they arent spending.

[Briguy123]

I use the spell skill system in my campaigns. The skill roll is modified by the real cost of the spell. For every three points in real cost, there is a -1 difficulty rating applied to the spell. For example, let's consider a basic "firebolt" spell:

 

1.5d6 RKA Active cost 25.

beam effect (-1/4), RSR (-1/2), Incantations (-1/4), gestures (-1/4), full phase (-1/2), 1/2 DCV (-1/2), Conditional side effect - must fail skill roll by 3 or more (-1/4). Total disads=2 1/2. Real cost 7

 

Because the active cost is 7, the difficulty modifier is 7/3 or 2. Anyone with the "firebolt" skill will take a -2 penalty to his roll when casting the spell. For instance, Charga, the fire mage has a 15< roll with the fireball spell. He takes a -2 penalty for the difficulty rating so he must roll a 13 or less to successfully cast the spell.

 

If Charga wishes engage in research to increase the effect of the spell to 2d6+1, he increases the real point cost of the power to 10. This will raise the difficulty modifier to -3. Charga would have to roll a 12 or less to cast the powered up firebolt. However, if Charga wants to add an advantage such as autofire or variable special effect (any elemental effect) to his spell, I would call it a new spell and require the player to buy a separate skill for it.

[Markdoc]

The whole point with a skill based system is that the GM makes up the spells and the players buy the appropriate skills. So a player couldn't (or shouldn't) be able to just decide to the increase the power of a spell any more than a fighter can decide to increase the damage of a normal longsword.

 

In other words, the mage needs to find a new, better spell and pay the cost to learn it.

 

cheers, Mark

[Briguy123]

Originally posted by Markdoc

The whole point with a skill based system is that the GM makes up the spells and the players buy the appropriate skills. So a player couldn't (or shouldn't) be able to just decide to the increase the power of a spell any more than a fighter can decide to increase the damage of a normal longsword.

 

In other words, the mage needs to find a new, better spell and pay the cost to learn it.

 

cheers, Mark

 

In my campaign, beginning charachters must pick from a list of spells that I created. However, I allow those characters that have the skill "Inventor (spell research)" to spend EP's and increase the effect or create new variations of known spells. This would be similar to a fighter who had the weaponsmithing skill creating a unique weapon that does more damage or is easier to wield.

[Markdoc]

>>> However, I allow those characters that have the skill "Inventor (spell research)" to spend EP's and increase the effect or create new variations of known spells. <<<

 

Since the players don't pay Eps to start with, how do you handle this?

 

Cheers, Mark

[shinrin]

Originally posted by Markdoc

>>> However, I allow those characters that have the skill "Inventor (spell research)" to spend EP's and increase the effect or create new variations of known spells. <<<

 

Since the players don't pay Eps to start with, how do you handle this?

 

Cheers, Mark

 

I think there are two schools of thought on this right now:

 

1) Create a new spell with the changes to the original spell and just make up a new Skill for the new spell. This is the cheaper route.

 

2) Figure the difference between the Real Cost of the old spell and the new spell and charge the difference in XP.

 

I would rule that a PC should not make too many changes with one Inventor (Spell Research) roll. I would say he could make up to one 5 or 10 Active points worth of changes per point he makes the Skill Roll by. The skill roll could be modified for using a appropriate setting like a wizards laboratory, having access to grimoires, spending money on research materials, extra time spent researching. Of course the roll could be negatively impacted for lack of these resources.

[Briguy123]

Originally posted by Markdoc

 

Since the players don't pay Eps to start with, how do you handle this?

 

Cheers, Mark [/b]

 

Granted, they don't have to spend eps to boost the power of the spell, but the increase in power also increases the difficulty rating of the spell. They must spend eps to increase the skill roll if they wish to be able to cast the more powerful spell as reliably as the original. Casting a 1d6+1 RKA firebolt on a 13< is preferable to casting a 2d6 RKA firebolt on an 11<, especially of side effects are involved. Therefore, those who have researched the more powerful spell would probably want to spend a few points to boost their skill rolls up to an acceptable level.

[Vondy]

You could consider the change in the AP of the spell a skill roll modifier (at 5/10 AP, whatever you designate for your game).

 

For instance. Lets say your normal fireball is 6d6 EX (45AP) and the character has a fireball skill of 14-

 

The character needs to do an uber fireball and wants to shoot for 8d6 EX (60 AP) - lets assume -1 for every 5AP.

 

The player would roll 14 - 3 (15 AP variance) or 11- to get the bigger fireball off. It would work the same way with advantages (in theory).

 

Of course its just an idea (and one I haven't thought through very well), but that's my 2AP.