Springald Jack

Re: A Thin Moral Line...?

I think that's fair enough' date=' but my point was (or rather, my view is) that the Punisher can only be a good guy [i']as a fictional character[/i]. That was the whole reason I pointed out the difference between his falliability as a person within his own world, and his infalliability as a fictional character in our world.

That said, I enjoy stuff much more when I don't have to turn my brain off to participate. That's why I like Watchmen better than Dark Knight.

1. disagreeing with a moral premise in a fiction doesn't mean shtting your brain off. Hero is a deep and rich film, which happens to endorse totalitarianism.

2. More relevantly, the fact that Punisher can only be a good guy as a fictional character is kind of a silly point to make since he is a fictional character. Conventional powered superheroes are only possible in fiction.

Conversely, if we pulled out a gun, aimed for his head, and pulled the trigger, we'd be considered a murder, again regardless of whether the man was innocent or not. Indeed, we'd be considered a murderer in spirit even if we were to miss.

 

I was going to do a whole thing on substantive and procedural wrongs, safeguards and the moral status of moral rules themselves, but I have a feeling it would be too lengthy. The bottom line is, no, they aren't the same. The law doesn't think they're the same. Common morality doesn't think they're the same.

Actually, under certain circumstances a private citizen can in fact shoot someone legally. It may even be in the defense of another person rather than the defense of a shooter in many jurisdictions.

Re: Superhuman women and normal women

You know, the thing is, I really wanted that movie to work, 'cause I love Uma and Luke both.

I thought it did as was what it was. A Romantic Comedy about a Super Hero. I agree that they could have done more with Izzard.

Even Eva Mendes doesn't look like that! That photo's been airbrushed and photoshopped within an inch of its life.

One account I've heard of what Super-Human Attractiveness is, is that a Super-Appearance character looks like those photos with no makeup, no retouching. When they've just woken up. It's one I like.

Re: A Thin Moral Line...?

If I accept that, however, I suppose I must also accept the ending of Civil War. After all, within the moral environment of that fictional world, the general populace considers a Super Hero Registration Act to be essential, and that is the light in which it is being portrayed.

I haven't read Civil War. However, just because the majority of the general populace supports something doens't mean it is necessarily right within the moral framework of the setting. It could be a moral framework in the tradition of Thoreau's Civil Disobedience, "One person in the right, constitutes a majority of one."

I also am not saying that the moral environment of a fiction is not a grounds on which to judge it. If I feel that the morality of a fiction is too out of wack it may cause me to dislike it. I was just pointing out that the same person can accept differing fiction's moral frameworks for the context of the fiction without a neccesary reflection on their won moral framework.

Re: A Thin Moral Line...?

 

Punisher. Star Trek.

 

I just realized...

 

...there's like a serious moral clash between these, ain't there?

 

It's a wonder the cognitive dissonance didn't drive him mad.

It's almost like people can enjoy fiction without totally accepting the morality of the imaginary world presented

Even then maybe not. Punisher is about a man who must do what the system can't or won't do. The system often isn't even interested in achieving justice. Star Trek:the Next Generation is about a crew from a society that while not quite perfect has a system that works far better than any real system could where any serious miscarrige of justice is both rare and shocking. The Federation doesn't need the Punisher but his world does...

I generally see Punisher as a Hero within the moral environment of his little corner of the fictional world he exists in. There what he does is True Justice. In the real world or a four-color environment he would be a dangerous lunatic.

And that's the thing just as a world has its own physical rules it has its own moral rules. The crew of Serenity are criminals (even Innara and Book Aid and Abet fugitives and are Accessories to countless acts of smuggling and theft) but I never question the fact that in spite of himself Malcom Reynolds can't stop being a Big Damn Hero...

Re: WWYCD: Merchandising Hell

Plus' date=' she modified a Barbie Malibu Convertible to actually run...[/quote']

 

THis is pure win.

 

Hexslinger isn't well liked as a Hero and probably wouldn't be that marketed. He has however tried to talk with universities about letting him teach courses in Magic...

 

DoubleTime is Marketing Savvy/A little bit of a Glory Hound. He probably spends some time each day micromanaging his PR/Liscensing. Of course as a Speedster he does have the time...

Re: Modern day Angels?

In Nomine has some nice breakdowns of angel types - organising them into choirs and hierarchies.

While I'm probably a bigger fan of In Nomine than most people there is some salt you should take this with.

1. In IN "ordinary" angels aren't demi-god level they're more street-level supers power level.

2. While the heirarchies and choirs are influenced by the traditional angelology it departs from it significantly.

Children of Fire is much closer to the traditional angelology though its full of its own novel bits as well.

The coolest use of Angels in an RPG for my money however is the Angelic Imperators in Nobilis. (there they are very very god-like)

Re: Islam replaces Christianity

The wonderful thing about alternate history is our understanding of hisorical causation is pretty weak. So you can do anything you want.

Re: matchmaker for masks?

Myself

She-Hulk. I'd buy it. She's pretty awesome...

Back-ups

Scarlet Witch

Lyja

Re: Comics are getting too steamy...

I've seen parodies of the X-Men called that. It's a fairly obvious joke.

Super-Munchkin 2: the Narrow Escape has The Ex-Men who change your sex if you lose the combat.

I guess my point was that they say men think about sex every 8 seconds, but they never say how often women think about it.

That's a myth.

Re: WWYCD: Arrested for TERRORISM!!

Ironic' date=' isn't it, that in an attempt to keep from being tagged as a terrorist, this people would commit acts that would actually [b']make them terrorists[/b]...?

Not necessarily it could be like Rorsach in Watchmen who, when captured, freely admitted doing what he'd done, but was unwilling to admit to the two murders he hadn't commited...

Re: WWYCD: Arrested for TERRORISM!!

DoubleTime Well in current continuity he has a public ID, so no go...

Hexslinger Probably would "go to sleep" in his cell to astral project out to begin the process of discovering/proving what is impersonating him. He's NOT interested in going public.

Re: The "Classic" Elements

The 5-team has it's origins in the five Confucian virtues:

No the five agents are older than Confucius.

Re: Assumptions within HERO

The taking no damage thing was just a consequence of that effect.

But it's not a game mechanically necessary consequence of Moves through objects. In fact there is a written limitation to drop the "takes no damage" aspect isn't there? They are default packaged but seperable effects.

Re: Rarity of Magic?

Not really - doubt about whether a god or gods actually exist goes back a long' date=' long way. [/quote']

 

Agreed. I overstated my point. However when not aimed at intellectuals, weaker or evil was probably more common.

 

Further East, Siddhartha specifically rejected the concept of gods and he was building his philosophy on much older traditions.

 

The Buddha did not reject the existence of the gods, but rather their place in the Upanishadic Hindu cosmology. For Buddha they were just as much prisoners in Samsara as us, and because of their lives of pleasure in the Heavens, were less likely to embrace the Eightfold path which is the release from suffering. IMO this falls under the "your gods are weak" umbrella.

Re: Rarity of Magic?

 

Divine magic, as usually represented in fantasy roleplaying, makes it very difficult for anyone to disbelieve in the gods.

 

or that this possession by a god is actually a sign of a mental disturbance.

 

It's hard to say that when a religious figure calls on the power of the gods to raise your neighbor from the dead, and then your neighbor goes around telling everyone what the afterlife is like.

A couple of points

1. Western Science actually tells us that "possesion" states are trainable techniques that anyone can learn rather than a sign of mental abberation.

2. My point was that people of real faith in the real world where there are no unambiguous signs still experience "incontrovertible" proof. Before the Enlughtenment, nobody claimed that other people's supernatural experiences weren't real. THey said that your god is either A. Weaker than our god, or B. is Evil and trying to decieve you.

Re: How hard is your science ficiton?

It depends. I like Transhuman Space, but I also like Star Trek.

Re: Elves

How many game-worlds have you seen with 4 or 5 (or 20) distinct human cultures and then "an elven culture" and "a dwarven culture".

Babylon 5's cop out for this was that Human's are much better at incorporating diversity and building community than other races. They had to unify their culture over time in order to unite.

Re: Rarity of Magic?

There's also the matter of faith as the highest virtue of religion. One has faith that a benevolent God exists. One does not have faith that the lights will come on when the switch is flipped; there's too much empirical evidence for it for it to be faith.

 

Divine magic has a tendency to turn miracles into a light switch.

That's a western attitude. I've seen a temple in India where a young woman was bossing around her whole family because she was possesed by a god. Who was therefore very obviously real to everyone involved. Many of the people in the temple were named Pondi (the name of the deity) because they're birth was as closely attributed to the intervention of Pondi as the I attribute the light in my room to flipping the switch.

Re: When you think "Superhero"....

"You can't save everyone." Superman's reply: "I have to try."

That's it. Superheroes require

1. A commitment to Higher moral principles (Truth & Justice)

2. At very least humans with incredible training if not out and out Superpowers.

Re: Real world vs. Game world

As I mentioned in the Registration Act thread, Registered Metas can get very cheap(relatively) insurance through M.A.S.K. Non-registered are often unavailable for taking money from, and so Buisnesses take MPPD (Massive Paranormal Property Damage) Policies in places like Delta City, Victory City, NYC, LA, and Tokoyo.

Re: Elves

There's no reason why Elves should be Tolkein.

There's no reason they HAVE to be but given his influence it isn't surprising that they ususally are in practice.

Re: WWYCD: The Campion Protocols

Hexslinger would call the HeroGuard. It would be very hard to take them all 4 at once. That's why you HAVE A TEAM.

Re: Super Human Registration Act in 5th ed

My Supers Universe has voluntary registration under the M.A.S.K. Act, which created M.A.S.K.* which is a semi-governmental agency. M.A.S.K. registered metas can testify in court get sweetheart deals on Property Destruction Insurance, and can be registered in Extranormal Academy (Super-Hero High)

However the Civilian Identity portion of the M.A.S.K. Registry is only accessible via an appropriate Warrant or the unanimous vote of the M.A.S.K. Board of Trustees.

*Metahuman Agency Systematizing Knowledge, not Mobile Armored Strike Kommand for all you cartoon fans.

Re: The use of accents/voices in your game

I sometimes use accents, but I'm not that good at it.

What I make effective use of (IMO) is what I call register, which consists of vocabulary, emphasis, and rate of speech.

Re: WWYCD: Quantum Leap

Hexslinger Says,"'You must not hcange one thing not one pebble until you know what good and evil will follow that act. The world is in Balance, in Equilibrium. A Wizard's Power of Changing and Summoning disrupts that balance. It is dangerous that power, to light a candle is to cast a shadow.' Ursula K Le Guinn who despite not being a Wizard herself displayed a keen insight into the ethical ramifications of my kind. Begone!"