Agent X

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

So Firelord was the first time Spidey was ever in a life or death fight? No other villian ever had a chance to kill Spidey' date=' bringing out this Hulk like strength?[/quote'] NOT Hulk like strength. Punches with enough force to put stun on Firelord.

 

Spidey has never been shown to lift as much as the Hulk's upper limit, if there is one. He has been shown to lift far more than 10-20 tons on multiple occasions.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Cut the crap. Two thirds of this book was Spidy being in maximum dodge mode, using every advantage his Spider Sense gave him, and being missed by inches.

 

Now he is so out of touch with is Spider Sense, which you spent several post claiming was the thing that made him untouchable, that he does not even realize when Firelord ceases to be a threat, and you're claiming Firelord still can't hit him?

 

Sloppy, inconsistant writing.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Oh, I'm sure it happened. Hulk has also been choked out by a snake, and Wolverine survived being hit with a nuke too.

 

You really have no problem with Pete lifting 100 tons? After 40+ years of him being not nearly that strong?

 

Well, there's really no point in arguing then.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

 

So Spidey is really Class 100, and all these times he's been acting at Class 15 he's just been goofing around?

 

He Stunned once that i've seen, and hit many more times where he wasn't stunned. Hence the me saying 'more often than not' in my post.

 

But then it hardly matters, Spidey is as strong as Thor according to you, he just never bothers using that strength.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Humm, looks to me like Hulk punched Rhino, Abomination grappled Hulk, Hulk put a martial throw on Abomination, Rhino prepared to attack Hulk. If all three characters had a simular SPD, Rhino had a phase while Hulk was busy with Abomination.

 

I think he grabbed a Rec.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Here we disagree. Namor is Ben Grimm's equal on dry land. Spidey damn sure ain't winning no arm-wrestlin' contests with the ever-lovin' blue-eyed Thing!

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Nobody's arguing that Firelord has been shown to be durable (vs Thor and Herc) in some books. However, he has also been shown to be sufficiently non-durable as to be Stunned (an impressive feat when I consider my expectatioon of Firelord's CON).

 

The battles with Thor/herc seem to rage briefly, then they decide they want to be friends and walk away. Had they raged on, who knows? Firelord has vast offensive power. Maybe he could have taken Thor/Herc down before falling himself. Maybe Thor/Herc would have taken him down.

 

But Firelord couldn't lay a glove on Spidey near the end of the battle (the part the Avengers would have seen as they aproached, as opposed to the beginning and middle where SPidey actually tried to locate them in the hopes they could take Firelord for him), and refused to use an aea attack to win, so that offensive power was useless. Would it take Spidey way more unanswered punches to take Firelord down than Thor would need to land? Sure. Did Spidey's superior Speed and whirlwind of attacks allow him to land punches way faster than Thor? You bet. Was Spidey's Dex and SpideySense, combined, enough to prevent a retaliatory strike that would take him out landing, so he could keep going longer than Thor/Herc? Yeah, I'll buy that - it's his schtick.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

I'm still trying to figure out how someone who, more often than not is hardly phased by the like of Hercules and Thor's punches, is going down to Spider-Man's fists?

 

I mean, doesn't matter if you swing a thousand times, you're still hitting a steel door with a whiffle ball bat.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

1) I think its a bad story because the underdog doesn't win through guile, or guts, or heart. He wins by suddenly being strong enough to beat the guy unconcious with his bare fists, which by all previous examples by both parties he shouldn't be. Its not about continuity, its about consistancy.

 

2) I've yet to see a Herald's power 'fluctuate' from 'trade punches with Thor' to 'get knocked the F- out by Peter Parker' in any other instance besides this one. Even at the previously shown lowest levels a herald was well above Pete.

2) Your assumption that at the lowest levels a herald is well above Pete is unsupported - especially by the Spidey Stories I've read.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Did I rep him for calling you a liar? I don't believe I did. If I did' date=' then I apologize. If I didn't, you're taking this way too personally.[/quote'] Nope, what I'm saying is you have much lower standards for those who agree with your opinion and your standards for those who don't seem designed to pretend they are doing something trollish.

Re: New Teen Champions: Ravenswood Academy

Show time.

 

This should be fun.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

I can and do accept that Spider-Man holds back some from day to day.

 

However, that word is "some". I *don't* accept that when he finally takes the gloves off, he's actually the amazing Spider-God, able to make with beatdowns of such power that the sons of Odin and Zeus can merely look on in envy.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Well' date=' Spidey also has way high DEX-based skills, 'naked' DEX rolls, and initiative, so either he bought very very inefficiently (CV levels, DEX skill levels, and Lightning Reflexes instead of just plain DEX) or, your speculation, not so much.[/quote']

You guys are creating a false dilemma. Spidey, IMO, has both a very high dexterity and many CV levels

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

I still don't see what's so wrong about insisting that an event actually be shown to happen in a comic book before it can be claimed as canon.

 

The alternative, after all, renders any effective discussion flatly impossible, because if you can imagine whatever you want and then claim it was never drawn but still happened, nobody will ever even be able to agree on what the events *are*, much less what they mean.

 

Like, oh, about 60 pages of this thread.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Yeah' date=' I'm thinking that Chuckg's torpedoed his own argument well enough that I can step AFK and get some stuff done. [/quote']

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

You know, up until now, I've never heard of a fundamentalist intepretation of comic books. I applaud you for the concept but find it as intellectually bankrupt as fundamentalist interpretations of the Bible. However, it seems to be a matter of faith, ultimately.

 

So I still haven't gotten far enough back to see if people feel the battle is actually lame... (after all, it might be lame because it doesn't show enough action, regardless of its verisimillitude...I don't know...)

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Ah' date=' I get to see Agent X again, [b']reflected in somebody else's quotes[/b].

 

Folks, where did I say I found *all* comic books hideously incompetent?(*) I found AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #269 and 270 hideously incompetent, which is another statement entirely.

 

 

 

 

(*) Granted, recent MU and DCU storylines and crossovers have been nothing but exercises in disappointment for me recently, but there's always MAJESTIC, INVINCIBLE, the recent POWER PACK limited series, etc.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Yeah' date=' I gave up on regular superhero comics a long time ago. Not that there aren't a few good ones, but it's pretty rare.[/quote'] I gave up on almost all comic books long ago but not because they didn't show every punch or literally spell out every punch or the like. I sincerely doubt many of us old comic collectors like you and me gave up on them because of that.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

What "omissions"? You *have* no evidence that Spidey hit Firelord 'a lot'. You've specifically admitted that you *can't* show it to me anywhere on the page.

I think you've fallen into your own trap. Perhaps, now would be the time to stop either by simply stopping, admitting defeat, or making a few accusations against the character of those who disagree with you while twisting their arguments and leaving in a huff. Your choice. After all, you are only delaying the inevitable.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

I get to see a lot of other peoples' posts reflected in Andrew Cermak's quotes of them.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Observation:

Cap vs. Batman...no conclusive evidence, long argument based on anecdotal evidence and opinion

Spidey vs. Firelord...positive conclusive evidence (it's on the page, it happened), even longer argument based on anecdotal evidence and opinion...and denial

 

Still, it has a way to go before it beats

 

Takofenes vs. Dr. Destroyer...statistical evidence, though no actual printed fight, longest argument ever based on anecdotal evidence and opinion

 

So, it seems that with more evidence the arguments get longer...

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

... becuase Spidey is talking continuously throughout the transition' date=' and there's no gap in his speech, yes.[/quote'] I thought Gary was on your Ignore List.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

Funny how Chuck earlier in this thread was trying to do detailed calculations of how much time passed between panels' date=' and now he's trying to literally say that no time can pass between panels of a comic. [/quote'] Consistency is not a virtue for propagandastic thinking.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

If you're pulling them straight out of your ***.

Re: Worst comic book superfight ever

> You're really falling apart on this point.

 

Yes, pointing out that comics artists are supposed to draw what's happening in the comics, totally nonsensical, me.

 

> Those pages are meant to show Spidey's last stand. He's had enough,

> he's furstrated and angry, and now it's time to stop running and go

> down fighting. That's what the artist draws, because that's what's

> important.

 

> How many times Spidey punched Firelord isn't important.

 

On the contrary, it's *very* important -- to the argument you've been trying to make. You bet your position on Spidey's alleged 'quantity', now you've got to back that alleged 'quantity' up.

 

> How many times Firelord swiped at Spidey isn't important. We don't

> need to know those things, [snip]

 

Thank you for admitting that you have no evidence to back up your claims about quantity. You have only your own wishful thinking, and that's apparently all you feel you need.

 

Well, it might convince you, but it damn sure ain't convincing.