Chimera 12

Re: "Wee Folk", traditional or furry

I do believe there is a caveat that you can (and should) adjust the OCV bonuses and minuses when the characters are of similar size.

If you think you could cite that one, please do. (To be honest, I've thought about applying appropriate OCV bonuses and penalties to the size templates myself already -- just enough to effectively cancel out the defensive bonus or penalty resulting from the character's own scale so that two pixies or two giants fight each other much the same as two humans would. It would be a far cry from addressing the whole issue, but it'd be a start.)

Re: "Wee Folk", traditional or furry

Actually, the solution is pretty simple.

 

If you're going to have a "little people" game where most people will be, say, rodent sized, you redefine that as the norm. The standard character starts at, say, 10 cm instead of 200, and needs Growth or Shrinking to change from there. Redefine how much weight STR 10 lifts. Redefine the range and area scales to fit the campaign reality; Area Effect starts at 5 or 10 cm instead of 100.

 

"Normal Humans" become giants with very high STR and probably low CV, or some severe penalties for hitting the player characters.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary asks what happens if you put Megascale on Shrinking

That's really more of a workaround than a true fix, though. All you need is a hypothetical game where PCs -- or even just friendly NPCs -- can be either "little people" or normal humans (not a hard setup to imagine, really) and you're essentially back to square one because there's no convenient One True Default Scale any more.

Re: "Wee Folk", traditional or furry

Warning: Heresy ahead.

...still here? Okay...

I'm not convinced I'd use the Hero System for this kind of game at all. That's mainly because I've recently come to the conclusion that, oddly for a system that includes growth and shrinking powers by default, Hero doesn't handle scales other than the standard human one at all well. For a very basic example, by the rules as written two giants whaling on each other will hit each other nearly all the time (because of the OCV bonus all attackers get against them -- including other giants), while in the same situation two leprechauns will barely be able to connect with each other at all. Think about that for a moment. Also, distance, area, mass, damage...all these things are by and large defined with human-scale characters in mind and go increasingly out of whack the further away you get from that. An ant-sized sorcerer pays exactly the same number of points for a 4m radius fireball spell as a human, completely ignoring the fact that for somebody like him that kind of attack should be a genuine weapon of mass destruction. A dragon, meanwhile, might well wonder why that sort of thing is even considered an area of effect attack at all...

In a more loosely defined and rules-light system I believe I could fix that, or at least handwave the situations as they come up. With Hero, I thus far haven't even begun to figure out how. And thus, I honestly can't say I'd see much point in using it for a "little people" game.

Re: Multipower Based Weapon Martial Arts

Honestly I think HA is too expensive' date=' rather than Str being too expensive. I'd say HA ought to at least be a -1/2 (basically like Blast with the no Range limitation) and maybe even a -3/4 since as you point out its weakened strength.[/quote']

 

Here, I'd disagree. If the same size killing attack costs the same whether it's hand-to-hand or ranged (and it does), then the same really ought to hold true for normal attacks as well. You're just trading range for the ability to add damage from STR either way.

Re: Multipower Based Weapon Martial Arts

If you want to talk about point costs (and I know this is ground that's been covered before -- I used the search function for once ), consider that most basic source of damage in the system: Strength.

As long as STR and Hand-To-Hand Attack do the same damage for 5 Active Points each, but STR also does so much more than just that, either the former must be too cheap or the latter to expensive. And HA actually does follow the general "1 DC per 5 AP" guideline, so it can't really be the problem...

On the other hand, 'fixing' the cost of STR would be bound to have a rat's tail of consequences. Telekinetic STR would logically have to become more expensive, too, as well as Growth and Density Increase due to STR increases being part of their respective templates. The END cost of STR would go up as well (more Active Points in it, after all)...all these changes can be made, to be sure, but it'd take some work and I'm not yet convinced they'd be altogether popular. The Hero crowd seems to love its "bricks" a bit too much for that.

Re: Multipower Based Weapon Martial Arts

I didn't think HA stacked with Killing Attacks' date=' which is what I'm shooting for with this.[/quote']

 

It doesn't (6E1 231, "Using Hand-To-Hand Attack").

Re: Pcs and the presidency

Maybe I'm dense, but I just don't see the problem with it.

If I didn't want the PC to actually become President, he wouldn't become President. I'd probably even tell the player so in advance; no need to be passive-aggressive about it.

On the other hand, if the player really had his heart set on it, I might just allow his character to succeed. So What? It's just another job after all -- a nice, high-ranking one with perks, to be sure, but the office certainly does not come with immediate, personal godlike power attached. In that regard I think it's being consistently overrated in this thread.

Re: VPPs and Aid, a problem?

At the end of the day, I'm not sure that it's specifically Aid that's the problem. Especially when I stop to consider how the same characters could potentially switch their VPPs to suitable Transforms to endow themselves and their allies with rather longer-lasting and altogether new powers, whereas Aid can really only enhance what's already there -- and, the way it's used here, only one thing at a time at that.

Rather, it's simply the high power level of the player characters in the first place. A simple basic Variable Power Pool with a 60-point reserve and a like Active Point limit may look innocuous enough, but is effectively a 90-point power right there. Add the ability to switch as a zero-phase action? 120 points. Half-phase action instead, but not requiring a skill roll? 135. At levels like those, yes, I'd kind of expect some pretty outrageous things to happen, especially if there's no clear limit on the kinds of powers the characters can pull out of their pools...

Also, on the verisimilitude side of things: Make no mistake, if insta-buffing is the new uber-tactic and it's use it or lose, then everybody who hears of it and can do so will adopt it. Metagame concerns ("well, fighting that way all the time is boring/it all comes down to who has the better DEX") shouldn't IMO enter into it as far as reasonable NPC responses are concerned.

Not that I'm convinced yet that it is, mind. Team Band Aid here basically depends on being able to stick closely together on the battlefield, after all. That leaves them vulnerable to both area effect attacks (Area Effect Flash vs. Sight, anybody? Or Area Effect Drain: Running? ) and the old chestnut of being divided and conquered individually.

Re: Zones of Control in Hero

Actually, AlHazred, that approach to building "attacks of opportunity" would be even more expensive. As the description of Restrainable points out on 6E1 393, that Limitation shouldn't normally be taken together with Focus -- and certainly not together with an accessible Focus, which is by definition Restrainable already. And with either OAF or Restrainable alone (depending on whether or not the trigger requires the user to be actually holding a weapon -- if you take it with OAF, then it won't let you make opportunity attacks with natural HKAs), the Real Cost of that power goes up some more...

Re: Steampunk-like world setting needs hero/power ideas

The 6E Advanced Player's Guide includes several other Universal Talents along the lines of Universal Translator. So, at GM's discretion, for twenty points you, too, can be a Universal Scientist and get an INT roll in all "broad" fields of science (penalties may apply for more obscure topics), with each +1 to the roll costing only one point more...

(The Scientist skill enhancer doesn't affect this and the only applicable skill levels are overall skill levels and 5-point ones with all Science skills, but with this kind of knowledge at your fingertips, who cares? )

Re: Weapons/equipment out of nowhere

Err' date=' I'm pretty sure the point of suggesting Restrainable was to use that [i']instead[/i] of Focus...

Yes, but in the post I was replying to Mickael was considering having the character actually "lose" captured/destroyed objects for a couple of days or so. Which would make them Foci in my book, and in that case using Restrainable as well would probably be double-dipping.

And I do believe that I mentioned that if they're not Foci -- because the character can just create a new copy if he loses the old one -- but the character could still be prevented from using them by, say, having his arms grabbed, then Restrainable would in fact fit that. So what are we arguing about, again?

Re: VPPs and Aid, a problem?

One slightly underhanded trick that might be worth trying out: If the tactic is that effective, the idea probably hasn't occurred to the player characters alone. So have them run into their opposite number -- an enemy team that happens to make heavy use of the same "turtle, buff, and then attack" approach that they do.

Then sit back and watch.

Re: Beating Dr. Destroyer...how do (or did) you do it?

Also all of Dr D's defenses are hardened. so you would have to go to double penetrating.

They may be Hardened, but are they also Impenetrable? Under 6E, these are two different Advantages -- Hardened no longer stops both AP and Penetrating at once (6E1 147 for reference).

(Of course, whether it's entirely fair to apply 6E rules to a character for whom -- I think -- no 6E writeup exist yet is another question altogether, but Dr. D might just deserve it. )

Re: Attack powers usable with Move-Bys and Move-Throughs?

After giving this some thought' date=' I wouldn't allow it. It would be the same as a normal size person attacking a target with shrinking or smaller than normal size template and that would make it too easy to cancel out the DCV levels that these characters get.[/quote']

 

Actually, while the two situations are equivalent in concept, they aren't mechanically. Technically, smaller-than-human characters get DCV bonuses against everybody, including characters their own size. Meanwhile, humans get no such thing vs. giants, and the latter don't particularly suffer from OCV penalties against us either.

 

But that's more a comment on the system's issues with scales other than the default "standard human" one than relevant to the original question, I guess.

Re: Attack powers usable with Move-Bys and Move-Throughs?

Something to consider in this case is that we already have a precedent of sorts. Namely, Huge and larger characters get Area of Effect on their STR as part of their template. So...can they perform Move Bys and Move Throughs with that?

The answer to that question might affect this one as well.

Re: SFX Question: What should, or shouldn't, an electicity based force field stop?

Things that could conceivably pass through the field would seem to include:

-- Light, potentially including lasers. The field is still transparent or possibly even invisible in the visible range of the spectrum at least, right?

-- Sound. This does kind of assume that the character's field doesn't 'lash out' at the surrounding air as well as at more 'solid' matter, but if he still breathes (as well as speaks and hears) normally we can probably take that as a given.

-- Particles with no electric charge like neutrons. (Charged particles, on the other hand, would definitely be susceptible to deflection by this sort of thing even in a more 'realistic' setting.)

-- Possibly heat and/or cold depending on how much of a physical manifestation they have.

-- 'Exotic' energy forms, although here we may be treading a bit close to things that standard defenses don't work so well against anyway.

You may not want to use the whole list, of course.

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

Most classic superheroes (as opposed to pulp "mystery men" do NOT "take the law into their own hands"; none of the classic DC superheroes were vigilantees. Even Batman did not try to "punish" the criminals, he immobilized them and left them for the police. If Joe Q. Redneck (or anyone else) sees a serious crime in progress they can act to stop it. (At least in the US.)

I truly do not see where you get that heroes action indicate that they believe might makes right. (Anti-heroes are another thing entirely.) Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, and the Flash never acted that way that I recall. Please give some examples.

Keep in mind that there's rather more to the law than just "Thou Shalt Not Kill", and it's the little things that folks like you and me are supposed to respect that supers often conveniently ignore. A little breaking and entering in the line of duty never hurt anybody, right? And it's not as though any "hero" would ever do such a thing as pick a fight with another superpowered individual on purpose and thereby put bystanders at even the slightest bit of risk, either. (Although I'll grant you that this one may be more of a Marvel "thing" than a DC one.) And surely there can't be anything wrong with forcing somebody to tell you just what you want to hear if you have a convenient magic lasso to do the job for you...

Re: SFX Question: What should, or shouldn't, an electicity based force field stop?

"Realistically", I wouldn't put much faith into a purely electric field to stop most normal attacks unless perhaps it reaches a power level at which my everyday intuition breaks down. I wouldn't even necessarily see it as keeping a simple punch from connecting -- sure, the attacker's in for a shock unless insulated, but he still has a fair chance of hitting you all the same.

Since we're probably talking comic book science, though, the force field doesn't necessarily have to be fully electric to fit the character concept. It may be enough that it's a field of some type with actual stopping power (telekinetic, maybe) that also conducts electricity, thereby allowing the character's damage shield to cover its surface and his other powers to work through it unimpeded.

Also, as it happens the first character concept that occurred to me after picking up the 6E books was an electricity-based hero in a kind of "two-fisted costumed pulp character" mold. I never completely crunched all the numbers, but while a damage shield was part of it he wouldn't have had an actual force field -- just an armored costume (and not a whole lot of armor at that, more advanced kevlar than anything else), high BODY, and some made-up "electro-regeneration" to heal quickly from the damage I'd expect him to take.

(Oh, right -- and a bunch of innate Resistant ED, Only Vs. Electricity (-1/2). Mustn't forget that one. )

Re: Total NEWB question - Throwing Badger

Doesn't Japan have something that can stop it? I mean' date=' they have to deal with Godzilla all of the time....[/quote']

 

Sure, and they never seem to stop him for good either. He always pops back up for another movie.

 

No, Japan stands no chance whatsoever against a riled-up radioactive badger OF DOOM. Although I'm sure their struggles would make for a nice entertaining trilogy at the very least despite the obviously foregone conclusion -- I'd even bring popcorn.

Re: VPPs and Aid, a problem?

Well, as far as I can see, that tactic is legit. It does, of course, come with a few drawbacks.

-- As long as the "buffers" have their VPPs entirely committed to Aid, they're not using them for anything else. (This assumes, of course, that they're not putting any Limitations on the Aid to reduce its Real Cost...but most that I could immediately think of that actually might apply would probably come back to bite them.)

-- By default, Aid has no range and requires an attack action even when used on a willing target. So the "buffers" have to stay close to whoever they are buffing (which isn't an issue when targeting themselves, but makes it easy to catch a pair or entire group with suitable attacks otherwise) and are limited in what else they can do during that phase, particularly since using Aid ends it just like any other attack would.

-- Multiple Attack in particular requires a full phase action to use unless the character in question also has the Rapid Attack skill (10 character points to reduce that to a normal attack action) and can rack up a large END bill fairly quickly.

It also sounds as though the characters in question have Cosmic (or nearly so) VPPs since they're apparently able to change their Aid powers freely at will, which isn't normally the default. That would, of course, exacerbate the problem...but then, they'd presumably have invested the points to make themselves that powerful. (Alternatively, they could have Aid with Variable Effects, but that would cut into how many raw dice of Aid they have available since they have to stay under the Pool's Active Point limit.)

In the end, I haven't run into this kind of situation myself in practice (yet, anyway), but from hearing about and occasionally running into similar things in the context of D&D (which also has plenty of 'buffing' effects) I'm not sure that it's necessarily unbalanced against opponents that bother to actually attack our Sitting Duck Posse while they're busy buffing up instead of returning fire. And given how relatively quickly the added points are going to fade unless the characters voluntarily cut back on their raw base Aid by applying Delayed Return Rate (+1 Advantage at a minimum), the window of opportunity for a "buff up to full strength first, then engage" seems pretty small even under optimal conditions.

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

John Q Redneck could stop a crime with his trusty shotgun but he would also likely be arrested and if not face criminal charges' date=' he would be sued by any criminals he injured. At the very least he probably would not see Mr. Trusty Shotgun for a long long time as it sits in an evidence locker even if the charges levied against him get dropped.[/quote']

Well, that's really kind of the point. If John Q. Redneck gets that treatment, why doesn't BlasterMan when he goes out and uses his powers to do the exact same thing?

 

Now, the obvious answer to that is that most of us readers/moviegoers/players indulge in superhero fantasies for the sake of pure escapism and don't want to question the underlying assumptions of the genre too closely because that just gets in the way of our fun. And that's perfectly fine, too -- it's only fiction, after all.

 

But the catch is, that's really a meta-reason that provides no explanation for why things work the way they do that would follow from the setting's internal logic. So the question why superheroes are allowed to play masked vigilantes while 'ordinary' people aren't would seem to remain valid and need some answers or at least quality handwaving in-universe, too -- especially when the plot is supposed to revolve around that very permission suddenly being revoked.

Re: a spell

For starters, I probably wouldn't allow this power at all. It clashes too badly with my idea of what being an "earth mage" is all about, and moreover, "I kill u ded no save LOL"-type attacks just aren't all that much fun to have in a game.

That said, assuming I had an attack of the crazy and/or was trying to model something similar with different special effects, this would probably be an Attack vs. Alternate Defense and Does BODY. Assuming for a moment that the defense is Power Defense (because that's kind of the default against transformation attacks and such), that's a total +2 Advantage right there before going into other things the caster might like to have such as Invisible Power Effects (to avoid unwelcome notice while he goes around killing people), Indirect (to be able to hit a target through a closed window without having to break that first), or Reduced Endurance (because the whole spell may well end up with a fairly high base END cost). You'd also need a decently strong base attack to have a reasonable chance of killing, or at least wounding to the point of needing to be stabilized via a Paramedics roll, the target in one shot.

On the upside, since this hypothetical attack would be based on a killing attack and basic Power Defense isn't Resistant unless it pays for that advantage, you'd be looking at an attack against whose BODY damage most targets would have no defense at all. (Okay, Resistant Damage Reduction would help. Or Damage Negation, which is considered Resistant by default. But preciously little else aside from not getting hit in the first place.)

Re: Only in Hero ID

I may have misinterpreted that part of the limitation' date=' but I figured that if you have two powers that are linked and the base power is drained or suppressed the secondary power is effectively drained or suppressed along with it. If you drain my 10d6 blast for 20 points, I can only use 6d6 of it. Therefore even though my flash isn't actually suppressed, I can only use 6d6 due to the restrictions of linked.[/quote']

I'm reading that differently, actually. The way I see it, if I drain your 10d6 Blast for 20 points, it's now a 6d6 Blast for all intents and purposes until the drained points return -- it's not "really a 10d6 Blast that I can only use 6d6 of". So you can still use your 10d6 Flash (which I didn't drain) with your 6d6 Blast just fine as long as you fire that at full power.

 

Make sense?

Re: Linked in a VPP, Looking for Opinons

I really new to this forum and haven't really played Hero System since the Big Blue Book. Can anyone enlighten me on why Linking two slots in a Power Framework is frowned upon?

It's not just Linking. 6E1 398, under "General Rules / No Combining Of Frameworks":

[...] [A] slot in a Power Framework cannot add to or modify a slot in the same or another Power Framework, or the same or another Power Framework as a whole.

Several examples then follow. Basically, not being allowed to Link two or more slots together is just a special case of a more general rule -- if one slot isn't allowed to "add to or modify" another, then certainly neither of them can depend on the other in order to function, either. As to why exactly that general rule exists...I'll leave that to people with more practical experience and/or better theorycraft than mine as it's getting late here and I can't for the life of me think quite straight enough anymore to come up with what I feel should be obvious examples.

Anyway, as the text goes on to explain on the following page, it is in fact legal to have slots that interact with Powers bought outside any Framework, or to have two or more Linked Powers in the same slot as long as their combined Active Points don't exceed the reserve. (In fact, Linking them is the only legal way to have two or more Powers in the same slot.) So that might help you a bit -- you can in fact have two or more Linked powers in the same VPP as long as they're notionally in the same 'slot' and thus don't in combination exceed the Control Cost, and they can add (or even be Linked) to something outside the Pool proper.

Re: Special Report: The End of Superheroes!

To be fair, I'd earnestly wonder why it seems that nobody ever conceived of the notion of superhero registration before. Why didn't the call go out for all patriotic superpowered individuals to register themselves and fight the good fight against the Axis in WW2 at the very latest?(*) Why did no earnest, respected politician ever step up to question what gives these so-called "superheroes" the right to don masks and take the law into their own hands from behind the veil of anonymity -- a right that society would readily deny to Joe Q. Redneck and his trusty shotgun if they tried to do the same? Indeed, do not the very actions of many of them support the view that they share the same belief as many supervillains at heart -- that might ultimately does make right?

There's some real food for thought here, I think.

(*) In real life, of course, the reason was that there were no actual superheroes around and the comic book creators couldn't with good conscience let their fictional creations regularly outshine the real heroes of the war -- especially not while it was still being fought in the first place! But in a game setting which presupposes that people with real superhuman powers did in fact exist at the time, that explanation doesn't work.