tcabril

Re: Western Hero - Stagecoach Some interesting statistics I found... In the Old West: A man walked about 18-20 miles per day (though I am sure this is with rests and a leisurely pace) A man on a horse could move about 18-24 miles per day (with resting and not pushing the horse too too hard) and max out at about 40 miles in a day if he really pushed it and wanted to risk the horse. Mule Trains moved about 12-15 miles per day. Wagon Trains moved about 12 miles per day Conestoga Wagons (with 3 pairs of draft horses) moved about 12-18 miles per day Stagecoaches could move about 1,900 miles in 17-20 days!!!! - so my second thought from my first post which started this nonsense is more accurate but not quite. So can anyone give me a hand in reverse engineer this down to Hero System Statistics?

Re: Western Hero - Stagecoach As an aside - Christopher, your ability to keep all these rules and statistics straight in your head is akin to a POWER in Hero System - I am always amazed at your ability to just pull this stuff out!!! WOW! Well as I see it a horse has a strength of 25 which allows for a lift (but I am going to say drag) of 800kg which is the weight of an empty stagecoach (per the example on page 6E2-187) so 2 horses (which a stagecoach would normally have a minimum of) could pull 1,600kg (or an effective combind STR of 30). That would be 3 END for the horses (1 END per 10 pts of STR used - or I could be mean and say 1 END per 5pts of STR and make it 6). That would be for combat situations - but for overland routes just to see how long a trip took or to catch up with a stagecoach fleeing - it would be within my estimates of around 20 miles an hour or so. Don't you think?

Re: Western Hero - Stagecoach Gojira- That is about my estimate as well but I was trying to figure out the game mechanics to get there. Any ideas? Todd

Re: Western Hero - Stagecoach I was writing/asking for 6th edtion. Since this is primarily a non-superheroic game I am usting the optional rule to eliminate END use or cost (I think that this is the one area where Hero System gets ridiculously tedious for no Super Hero Games...) I guess what I should ask is - Based upon the fact a horse has a movement of 24m - what would be a good distance that they could travel in 8-10 hours?

This is more of a "How Fast does a Stagecoach move" question rather than how to build one. Page 187 has a basic stagecoach with the following stats (note the stagecoach in the 5th Ed Vehicle Guide is different but presents the same question). Cost: 15 Size: 3 Length: 4m Width: 2m Height: 2m Volume: 16m Mass: 800kg OCV: +2 STR 25 KB: -3 Body: 13 I cannot figure out the speed. I figure it must have to be based on the horses that pull the stagecoach (or mules in some cases) - but correct me if I am wrong. A horse has a listed movement of 24m with a speed of 3 Page 24 of 6E2 states that Noncombat Movement is double his combat movement so does that mean 48m? That would 48 x 3 or 144 meters in a TURN then multiply that by 5 to get 720 meters in a minute or 43,200 meters in a hour (26 miles in an hour) and lets just say 8 hours of travel in a day = 345 Kilometers in a day (215 Miles or so) This just seems off to me but stranger things have happened. Or should it just bee 24 x 3 = 72 meters in a Turn then multiply by 5 to get 360 meters in a minute or 21,600 meters in an hour (13 miles in an hour) and then just estimate 8 hours of travel in a day = 172 Kilometers in a day (107 Miles or so) Can someone help me clarify this? Thanks Todd

Re: Naked Advantage question Thanks! I keep forgetting where to remove the active cost !!!! I was just using the write-up from the Equipment Book which had all the variables but not the total!! Thanks again!

I was looking up the rules for Fanning a Single-Action revolver in the Hero System Equipment Guide (page 51). It states that autofire can be purchased as a naked (5 shots; +1/2) advantage for firearms up to 37 Active Points (the most expensive single-action revolver on the chart) So when I calculate it out I get: Advantages 5 shot autofire = +1/2 Limitations Only works w/single-action revolvers (-1/4) Requires a Shooting Tricks roll (-1/2) (37*(1+1/2))/(1+3/4) - 37 = -5 which becomes 1 (the minimum cost rule) Am I doing this right - seem a bit inexpensive to be able to Fan a Revolver...

Re: A bit of clarification needed with sawed-off shotguns Thanks! That makes sense - I was figuring along the same lines but sometimes with these rules (and all the advantages and limitations coming into play...) things get a bit unclear. Thanks again Todd

Just a couple of Shotgun questions/Observations from the Hero System 6th Editon Equipment Guide. First I noted that there are no Shotguns listed under Nineteenth-Century weapons - which I found rather odd but I can get over this as they are listed out on pages 80 and 81 so just use those stats). Where things get wonky for me is with the notes under Sawed-Off Shotguns. It states that sawed-off shotguns are AEC (Area of Effect Cone 16m) and NR (no range). This seems to be contradictory to me. On page 6E1 388 under Range Limitations it states (under the No Range Limitation) "This -1/2 Limitation represents a Ranged Power that doesn't work at Range. The character can only use the power at HTH Combat range (i.e. within his reach)" How can there be a cone area of effect but no range? What I have taken this to mean is that for sawed-off shotguns it only works within the 16m cone (or 128m area - it has been a few years since triginometry so my calculation may be off ). Any thoughts? Also - any thoughts on Scatterguns? Todd

Re: Western Hero So do you think this is the way to go: Would it not be easier (or simpler) to say Reloading a rifle or revolver would take a phase (regardless of type) and 1/2 a phase with a Fast-Draw skill check?

Re: Western Hero The more I think about this the more it seems I may be complicating things (which I have been know to do...) So taking into consideration the rules on page 371 6E1 which states that it takes a full Phase to reload a "clip" and 1/2 a phase with a successful Fast-Draw skill check (page 71 6E1). Would it not be easier (or simpler) to say Reloading a rifle or revolver would take a phase (regardless of type) and 1/2 a phase with a Fast-Draw skill check?

Re: Western Hero Okay now I am confused... On page 6E2 16 it states "Each Turn equals 12 Seconds of Time" so I just assumed that if there are 12 Segments - each was about a second long. That is besides the point. What reload times would you suggest? Like I said on page 6E1 371 it states it takes a full phase to switch out a "clip" So how am I "increasing" the reload time? Please don't think I am trying to be difficult or start an argument - I am just trying to wrap my brain around this.

Re: Western Hero Page 371 6E1 states that it takes a full Phase to reload a "clip" and 1/2 a phase with a successful Fast-Draw skill check (page 71 6E1). I would think that changing out cartridges or a revlover cylinder would take longer than dropping a clip and slamming a new one in. Considering that a TURN is 12 seconds long and that a SEGMENT/PHASE is 1 second long - I am not so sure my "timing" is off. Any other thoughts?

Re: Western Hero So what would you suggest? Recomendations? I am not being flippant just trying to figure out how to best to do this (and I really do appreciate all the assistance you have thus far given me ) Western Hero has a phase to replace a spent revlover cylinder so I used that as a basis. The enemy has to reload too...

Re: Western Hero Taking in all the awesome advice I have recieved on this and my other post (Reloading a Revolver) I am going to go with the following: C&B Revolvers: 1 Phase to remove and replace a spent cylinder (1/2 phase with a successful Fast-Draw Skill Check) Fixed Cylinder Revolvers: 2 chambers/bullets per 1/2 phase [With a Fast Loader - the whole thing can be reloaded in 1 phase (mulling 1/2 a phase with a successful Fast-Draw Skill Check)] Shot Gun: 1 Phase to break and pop shells and reload [1/2 phase with successful Fast Draw Skill Check?] Lever Action Rifle: Slide 2 rounds in per 1/2 Phase. This was draw up based upon multiple opininons and points (not favoring one over another) and all your advice was helpful. What do you think? I want there to be some "delay" in reloading as I want that tension/drama when the bullets run out. Thanks in advance!!! Todd

Re: Western Hero The great thing about the Hero System Equipment Guide is that it already has Dynamite so I don't have to build it (does 6D6 Damage)! I only have to tweak some weapons for my game - such as a Mare's Leg (which is essentially a cut down .44-40 caliber Winchester Model 1892 as used by Steve McQueen in the Magnificent Seven (and by Eric Close in the TV series). Currently I am working through all the combat manevuers and taking extensive notes - to develop a "cheat-sheet" for Western Hero combat for my players. Did anyone else hear the horrific news? There is going to be a remake of the Magnificent Seven movie - staring Tom Cruise!!! That is like letting my 3 year old finger-paint on the Mona Lisa!!! Arrgh!

Re: Western Hero Ah I forgot about that part of the math - thanks for catching that for me. Any thoughts on Sawed of Shotguns? I figured just give it a 4m cone effect - no need to worry about the Active Cost as characters would just purchase a shotgune for $$ then saw off the barrel. Also for tossing dynamite - I am thinking a 1/2 phase to light then 1/2 phase to toss (with a DCV of 3 to hit) - your thoughts?

Re: Western Hero Christopher- I spoke to soon - The Equipment Guide (on page 51) has some real nice rules on Fanning (or Fan-Firing). Basically to do this one would by Autofire as a naked advantage costed out this way: 37 (the active cost of the most expensive revolver) * 1.5 (1/2 Autofire advantage) = 55 pts (55.5 rounded down in favor of PC) then hit it with Only Works with Single-Action Revolver (-1/4) and Requires a Shooting Tricks Roll (-1/2) Limitations you get a 32 pt naked advantage.

Re: Western Hero Would you say that in addition to haveing a -2 OCV for being a "passenger" on a horse the rider would also get the -1 OCV modifier -a total -3 to fire from horse back?

Re: Western Hero Cool thanks!!! The rulebooks are rather thick!!!

First off I want to thank everyone who chimmed in on my reloading revolver question - you have all given me much to think about. I am hoping to run a Western Hero type game (I managed to pick up a copy of the 4th edition Western Hero Campaign guide and it has some really cool ideas but I think tying to convert 4th to 6th will be way more trouble than just using the 6th edition rules as is and building out my own ideas). The Characters would all be made with 175 Character Points (with 50pts of matching complications). I plan to establish the Characteristic Maxima as written in 6E1 page 50. The Weapons will come pretty much, as written, out of the Hero System Equipment Guide 6th edition and any animals (horses, mountain lions and such) will come out of, or be be developed using, the Hero System Beastiary 6th edition. I will use my copies of Western Hero 4th Edition, GURPS Old West, and Aces and Eights (from K&C - a great game but very clunky to write campaigns for...) to use for prices for goods and services and the weapons (if I ever get ambitious I may publish a price list of all common and some uncommon Western goods and services for others here). I am currently working on cool little extras like what "Naked" advantages I will allow - so far I am planning to allow for Double Knockback as a naked advantage but the jury is still out on Autofire - I can't get my brain wrapped around it (not the mechanics but how I would want it to work in my game). I am also working on some combat modifiers to OCV and DCV - such as hip shooting and firing a weapon from horseback (so any suggestions would be great). Other than that I think that Hero System is perfect for what I want to do with my campaign - a sort of knock-off on the TV Series Magnificent Seven (I know that it is not nearly as good as the original movie and that it was an either love it or hate it show - so bear with me on my choice of subject matter - I happen to have loved the series [then again I loved Tales of the Gold Monkey and the Logan's Run TV series - so my taste can clearly be called into question! ]). So any ideas or suggestions I am all ears!!! (or eyes as this is a forum ). Thanks in advance and sorry if this is long winded... Regards, Todd

Re: Reloading a revolver That vid is awesome!!! However I was not stating that it was never done - accuracy is what I was getting at What I remember from Wild West Tech was that yes one could fan fire a weapon but the accuracy was for naught. I honestly don't know much about firearms more than I never want to be hit by one! What I am gearing toward is campaign with the feel of the TV series Magnificent Seven (and the movie of course). During gunfights they are always ducking down and reloading so I was just trying to get the timing down for Hero System.

Re: Reloading a revolver I was not intending to convert the 4th edition Western Hero to 6th edtion - rather just poking around for ideas. I am looking at what "naked" advantages would be allowable. So far I think Double Knockback would be fine but I am up in the air about Autofire - it may be very unrealistic for a Western campaign. I know people will immediately go for the whole "fan-firing" Hollywood schtick but historically it was not really ever done (at least according to Wild West Tech on the History Channel)

Re: Reloading a revolver Would it be unreasonable to say that it would take 1/2 phase to reload a cartridge and if one had Fast Draw - maybe reload 2 cartridges per 1/2 phase? I recently came across a 4th editon Western Hero campaign book at a bin for old RPG stuff at a gaming store. I grabbed it for $5 but it is in pretty good shape. I am considering a Western Hero type game - with PCs having only 175pts to build characters on - shoud be cool.

I know it takes 1/2 a phase to pop in a new clip to an automatic weapon but how long does it take to reload a revolver (i.e. the 6 cartridges) or a shotgun or lever action rifle. I can't seem to locate the ruling on this. Thanks Todd