Kristopher

Officially, it's "strongly recommended" that no-END and non-standard powers not be placed in MPs and ECs.

Personally, I don't have a problem with it.

The problem with skill levels of various sorts is that they're not Weapon Elements, and the use of a weapon with MA manuevers requires the corresponding WF and WE. Am I wrong about that?

If that's accurate, then all the PSLs and CSLs and OSLs in the world won't allow you to use your MA manuevers with weapons.

4thEd Regeneration cost 10 pts / level, and restored 1 BODY per turn pretty much regardless of the state of the character.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't FRED Healing require all sorts of advantages along with the Regeneration adder to achieve the same effect? 0 END, Persistent, etc?

I've never had a problem with Life Support in an EC, and since the cost of Life Support was significantly increased in FRED, there's more need than ever to put it in one.

The WF/WE Cosmic VPP fits a very specific type of effect that's appropriate for certain characters. They can pick up any weapon and use it. If you're looking at a martial artist, you might want to limit it to non-ranged weapons only for -1 instead of -1/2, but other than that it's not at all cheesy provided that it's restricted to characters who really should have it.

The "Do Anything" pool is conceivably appropriate for a very certain type of character, but they're going to be orders of magnitude more rare than the "pick up any weapon" types.

A very small VPP should cover it. 3 pt pool, instant shift, no roll. What's that come to? (at work, no book, blah)

Originally posted by Agent X

I'm trying to remember a single "always hits" power in the comic books... and I'm not succeeding. It suppose it might show up in fantasy though.

Having watched the Cartoon Network "Darkseid Marathon" last night, it seems that Darkseid's eyebeams rarely, ef ever, miss their target. They certainly have a serious helping of Indirect.

I meant that the character itself is overkill. I've never understood the appeal of massive, excessive, rediculous power. Characters capable of holding up mountain ranges are silly. (Never mind that a "mountain range" isn't in any way a single object that could be held up.) Superman kicking the moon out of orbit is patently silly -- there's a reason they scaled his power level way down. Throwing a battleship is borderline (since it assumes that the battleship could withstand its own weight on one point).

I know I'm running very much against the grain of comic books here, but as I've said before, there are parts of the comic book genre I simply don't care for. 4-Color settings, absurd power levels / feats, and lack of continuity/consistency are right there at the top of the list.

It's been so long since I've had anything to do with D&D that I'd forgetten Magic Missile. Most other "always hits" attacks in RPGs at least require some kind of skill roll on the part of the attacker to launch the thing. Magic Missile doesn't even have that.

Personally, I don't much care for the Magic Missile type of powers.

Is there really room in an RPG for an "always hits" attack?

It's not cheap in terms of the TK, but...

OK, damn, how much is Off Strike again? 4 or 5? I don't have the book with me right now (in the office on Sunday, yuck), and I can't for the life of me remember.

Anyway, 1 pt for Weapon Element: TK, right? And we'll say 5 pts for the Offensive Strike. For 6 pts, you add 4d6. Not bad.

Some GMs might rule that performing Martial Arts maneuvers with TK requires the Fine Manipulation adder, though.

Speaking of the cost of TK, I've always wondered why it's as expensive as it is...it's like STR w/ Ranged (+1/2), which would be 15 pts for 10 levels. BUT, if you compare it the cost of STR, you'd almost have to consider the fact that you don't get any figured characteristics for TK, which would be -1/2, right? Just thinking out loud...

Re: The Strongest is.... HULK

Originally posted by Tombstone_Frank

In the Offical write-up in the Games Trader Magizine for the month of June, Hero System (along with SAS, Marvel, and MnM) all did a Hulk conversion to promote the movie...

 

Hulk has a STR of 80. He also has "Madder Hulk Gets, Stronger Hulk Gets" Aid of 2d6 max of 60 pts of STR. That tops out at an astounding 140 STR.

 

Hulk smash puny Grond.....

That's just plain overkill, IMO.

AoE SPEED Drain, w/ Personal Immunity?

This is one of those cases in which a specific Advantage would be nice.

Over Skill Levels

Doing write-ups for a handful of aliens from an immortal (in the sense that they don't die from age) species, I decided that what would set the really old ones apart would be a number of Overall Skill Levels to represent the eons of experience they had.

It's rather hard to have a PC whose power is that he is "All-Knowing," for the reason you state. It's a legit comic-book shtick that doesn't translate well into an RPG, much like the list of problem archetypes in 5thEd Champs.

Life support bloated in cost quite a bit.

The _system_ is fine. I don't think anyone is unhappy with the system. This is more about the stuff underlying the system and how it connects to reality.

Re: Might I suggest...

Originally posted by MoonHunter

I personally would start with a lower base and disad level 200 total). Experience should be "matched" by growth. Eventually these students will grow into their 350 point total hero forms. Each point of experience can be "matched" by either a point towards their base total OR points received by disadvantage. So a character has 5 experience points. They can then match them for 5 points of bonus OR take 5 points in a disad (bumping up their code vs killing for example). Matching ends when the character has a full base (150) and full disad totals (100): their total being 350+exp earned

 

In addition, I would allow characters who have not reached there maximimums yet (either in disad or base) to mutate their powers OR disadvantages at will, WITH PROPER STORY CAUSE. So a cocky, young hero becomes gun shy and with a serious protect innocent after a bad adventure. A young mutant wakes up one morning and become totally hairsuit... (puberty on overload), or after an appropriate scene with their power out of control, the character learns a new power level. What ever is appropriate.

150 experience points would take 30 game sessions at the rather generous rate of 5 xp/session. I honesty don't expect this campaign to last that long or run every week. I wish I could say otherwise, but one of my players expects to move away at the beginning of next year, and the other two have campaign ADD.

Originally posted by rjcurrie

Well, without knowing the type of campaign you want to run, it's hard to make specific suggestions.

Part of what I want to deal with is the difference between these kids and their (supposed?) peers. How will they respond to the equivalent of walking around with military firepower all the time? Do they become arrogant? Distant? Afraid? Do they see their powers as a blessing, or a curse? Do see them as an easy ticket, or an extra responsibility? Do they listen to anyone they could easily hurt or kill?

Right now, I'm working with 300 pts because:

A) It _is_ 50 points less than FRED standard supers.

I often like esoteric, imaginative powers that end up costing a lot for their actual effect.

C) It allows some variation.

D) It makes them powerful enough that the question of how they respond to their power matters.

E) It leaves room for some other skills and stuff to round out the characters. (The electromagnetic manipulator took the Bump of Direction Talent as an internal magnetic compass, for example.)

Originally posted by rjcurrie

If you think 200 points is too low, use a higher base. Just like people who think 350 point supers creates too great a difference between supers and normals can use a lower base. Choose a base that will give you the power level you want in the campaign. That's what's really important. I think when Hero was talking teen heroes they were talking more about trying to simulate heroes that are still growing into their powers. If you want teens who are already powerful, use higher guidelines.

 

The important thing to remember that power levels are all suggestions. For instance, I don't like Active Point caps because they hamstring too many interesting powers. As a result, I just eyeball powers for whether I think they are too powerful for the campaign (and give some very general guidelines as to the power levels, I'm looking for).

 

What it all boils down to is that it is your campaign, do what you feel will give you the game you want. Decides what marks the differences between teen heroes and adult heroes in your world and create guidelines to achieve that feel.

 

Rod

My intent was just to kick the ideas around, and use other people's input to help me think this out. You're not really saying anything I don't know, I just hoped some discussion would help me solidify things.

That, and I like to question things. So, I questioned the recommended point totals for younger supers.

Originally posted by D-Man

I would think anywhere between 200 and 275 points would be good places to start, though I would probably come in on the higher end. I think the 40-50 active point range and slightly lower defenses would be about right, too.

 

My main concern with these games would be more in the nature of apropos psych lims and relevent adventures with the right tone. Teen angst without the bronze age body parts and routine lethal threats.

"Bronze age body parts?" Does this refer to extreme violence or revealing costumes?

Originally posted by Squid

Depends on how you want to play it. IMO (and I assume in most people's O), it's a godawful show. They should have just called it X-Men: 90210 and gotten it over with.

I don't think it's THAT bad. If nothing else, there are some decent plot seeds to be gotten from the show.

What specifically makes it "godawful" in your opinion?

I'm doing the preliminary work on a "school for the gifted" campaign right now, and I have to wonder...

If the standard superhero is now 350 points, isn't 200 a little... anemic? It's actually down in the "hero" range, in FRED.

Yellow, absorbant, and POURUS is he!