Kristopher

EGO vs PRE

 

The usefulness of a PRE drain in this regard depends generally on the average PRE and EGO in the campaign. Most Champs campaigns I've seen feature higher PRE than EGO. On the other hand, a game centered around mystics or mentalists would probably feature higher average EGO. In that sort of campaign, the PRE drain wouldn't be as useful in making later PRE attacks more effective.

Originally posted by RadeFox

Be a sick bastiche. Make a PRE Drain and link it to a PRE attack in a Compound Power! Lower the poor buggers resistance, add to your might, and then crush his wee little mind into so much gray fright-jello!

 

I think that when you have two linked powers, and one of them lowers the target's defenses against the other, the one that lowers the defense always goes off last. IIRC.

The difference is that a PRE attack makes the victim afraid of at that moment. A PRE Drain makes the victim afraid of everything for a while.

Originally posted by Gary

One huge advantage of the 50 int guy is his 19- perception roll vs the 11- perception roll of the 10 int guy. 50 int will be able to perceive when something goes wrong with his plans, whereas 10 int will tend to think everything is going according to plan even if it isn't.

 

It doesn't matter how impressive his PER roll is, he has that massive PsychLim in the way. Even if he might preceive taht his plan is going awry, he'll never be able to admit it to himself.

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom

In the Ultimate Powers Book (MSH) there were a several Branches of different Mutants. By Rolling you could got "by accident" and picked "Radiation" but sometimes the radiation came from a different Alien source like the Celestials who implated the genes in some bodies, maybe they used radiation

but i like to follow the Silver age theory...

 

Children of the Atoms refers to the Atomic Age (In the Avenger Quicksilver calls him self a mutant)

In earlier movies from the 50 'THEM" the giant Ants were mutations of the radiation but they were critters not humans

The Hulk was born out of Gamma Radiation. So Mutants like the X-men are Gamma Radiated too; No..I don't guess so..

The title refers to the fear : indeed but not how they were produced.

Example Cyclops:

the parents are normal parents; Neither had suffered radiation...

 

The parents of Scott summers were stopped by the Shiar. Scott was abducted by Mr Sinister who trained him in using his optical blast. When scott fell the area of his head that controlled his Blasts was damaged hence he can no longer control his blast so he needs to wear goggles

He escaped Mr Sinister went to Xavier and in the Inferno aftermath he killed a MR Sinisterclone because the suppressed memory of been tortured helped him killing MR Sinister...

 

Beast got his mutation from Apocalypse before that he could simple jump and had no fur

Alle parents of the X-men were normal people... not affected by radiation

 

We are all Children of the Computer age : thus that makes us what Robots ?

 

Look, if you want to go around confused about the whole thing, go ahead. Never mind that people who actually know what's going on have explained it to you.

Originally posted by Stray Cat

Confession: I have only read the last few posts of this thread..

 

With the aforementioned disclaimer.. I thought mutants like the X-Men were merely the next step in evolution acc. to the Marvel guys. Not necessarily radiation accidents or what-have-ya.

 

I thought that Marvel even went as far as saying that there was a difference between mutants (X-Men) and mutates (Spidey, the FF, Hulk, etc.), or is that just the old TSR MSH game?

 

Cat

 

Take everything from that game with a boulder of salt.

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom

Genes = Atomsized (Atom because the characters were created in a peroid the atomic bomb served as a warning for other nations (remember Cuba Crisis))

 

It is later that mutations were look upon as genepool

The Virus that was rampaging in the Mutantcommunity was like Aids but it was genetic engineerd by Strife. He didn't release an atomic device to invoke it.. He invented it based on the genetic makeup of mutants;

 

I have a mutation of my own: i was not irradiated to have it; It is geneindepended and can be brought over to other people of my family. My mutation lies on chromosome 14, there is a gene called Fybriline: The mutation is called Marfan Syndrome

We are mostly all made out of water and water is created out atoms of H and O; Our flesh is created out of atoms; each fiber and piece of iron remember F in Chemistry (atomic name)

and so on

that is why the x-men were called children of the Atom not because they were "irradiated" or their parents

 

You can look at mutations like the talents work in HEROgames : they happen at some point and the people gain them per accident (when they least expected it: with me a doctor found it per accident when i was 12)

 

(Iron is Fe, by the way.)

 

This may come as a shock to you, but the X-Men really are called the "Children of the Atom" because of the importance of atomic testing, radiation, fear of nuclear war, etc, to their origins and background.

Originally posted by VictorVonDoom

X-men don't have their powers from radiations via their parents; Their parents are simple humans. It is in the genes: the thing (mutation) is activated when they enter puberty

 

Hulk is a radiation accidentee (Big G in the desert -> Gamma bomb)

 

Um, Vic...were do you think people get their genes?

 

(Answer: From their parents.)

 

And what do you think mutated the genes?

 

(Answer: Radiation.)

Originally posted by Gary

Doom, Luthor, etc are comic book characters and their opponents have script immunity.

 

I can easily say that a 50 int with a 20- tactics roll would expect the other person to goad him, and would incorporate it into his plans and set up a trap. If facing a 10 int tactician, he would constantly throw out surprises and change plans on the fly, thus forcing 10 int to do the same thing. And if both sides had to change their plans on the fly, 50 int wins easily.

 

An Arrogant Manic won't change his plan, though, because his plan is PREFECT, I TELL YOU, PREFECT! NO ONE QUESTIONS ME, LACKEY!

 

That's the point.

As many as I need to run the game and tell my stories. I don't really start out with a set idea. I guess that would be several thousand, at least, though.

Originally posted by Black Rose

Looks to me, an IDHMBIFOM, that you'd have to send them to another dimension. OTOH, that would just infect another world with Unity, wouldn't it?

 

It would depend on how long it takes for the Transforms to reverse, and how carefull you are about keeping Unity confined.

 

What happens if two Unity groups meet?

 

Since every Unity shares the same goal, they basically team up.

 

PS: IDHMBIFOM?

Originally posted by RadeFox

Very scary idea, and yet I can see it in a cmapaign, it would start with all the young girls in town going to Free Makeover parties at their friends house. Each one coming home changed the next day..... Within a week, they would start in on their 'new' boyfriends....a few days later the adults would be targetted.

 

It would be pretty much unstoppable, unless their is some way to reverse the process. Else, the poor heroes will be forced to kill/imprision vast numbers of 'innocents'.

 

There are ways to reverse it, I just didn't add them to the file yet. One is to move them beyond the reach of the Mindlink (look carefully to see what that would involve). The other is a counter-Transform of some sort.

 

She does need more Disads, though. Does anyone have suggestions?

Imagine whichever famous young woman you find physically most appealing. Unity is at least twice as attractive.

 

Superhuman COM starts to defy reality, with people giving different discriptions, doesn't it?

Originally posted by Fireg0lem

Unity of the Mind and Unity of the Soul both need BOECV, not just Works vs. Ego, not Body.

 

How so? Unity still has to physically touch the target for the whole compound power to take effect.

That wasn't the intent, but now that you mention it, you could use her mechanics as a starting point to build the Smith type of character.

A) She's an NPC villain.

She was inspired by a power in the online version of the UNTIL superpowers database. (Which seems to have disappeared.)

UnityPlayer: NPC Supervillain

Val	Char	Cost
20	STR	10
20	DEX	30
20	CON	20
20	BODY	20
20	INT	10
20	EGO	20
20	PRE	10
30	COM	10
16	PD	6
16	ED	6
5	SPD	20
15	REC	14
50	END	5
50	STUN	10

8" RUN02" SWIM04" LEAP0Characteristics Cost: 191

Cost	Power	END
59	Just Like Us...: (Total: 190 Active Cost, 59 Real Cost) Unity of the Flesh: Transform 3d6: Other being into physical duplicate of self (Major), Reduced Endurance 1/2 END (+1/4) (56 Active Points); Extra Time Extra Segment (-1/2), Character May Take No Other Actions (-1/4), Limited Target Organic and Fairly Humanoid (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Reduced Penetration (-1/4), Concentration 1/2 DCV (-1/4) (Real Cost: 17) plus Unity of the Mind: Transform 3d6: Other being into mental duplicate of self (Major), Works vs EGO not BODY (+1/4), Reduced Endurance 1/2 END (+1/4) (67 Active Points); Extra Time Extra Segment (-1/2), Character May Take No Other Actions (-1/4), Limited Target Organic and Fairly Humanoid (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Reduced Penetration (-1/4), Concentration 1/2 DCV (-1/4) (Real Cost: 21) plus Unity of the Soul: Transform 3d6: Other being into duplicate of self (Major), Reduced Endurance 1/2 END (+1/4), Works vs EGO not BODY (+1/4) (67 Active Points); Extra Time Extra Segment (-1/2), Character May Take No Other Actions (-1/4), Limited Target Organic and Fairly Humanoid (-1/2), No Range (-1/2), Reduced Penetration (-1/4), Concentration 1/2 DCV (-1/4) (Real Cost: 21)	8
43	All Your Skill are Belong to Us: Telepathy 12d6, Rapid x 100, Reduced Endurance 1/2 END (+1/4) (87 Active Points); No Range (-1/2), Linked to Just Like Us... (-1/2)	3
15	All Your Skill are Belong to Us: Variable Power Pool, 10 base + 5 control cost, No Skill Roll Required (+1) (20 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers: Only Skills Absorbed via Telepathy (-1)
17	Of One Mind: Mind Link (Specific Group of Minds), Any distance, No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x32) (50 Active Points); Only With Others Who Have Mind Link (-1), Limited Class Of Minds Only Unity (-1)
15	Ten Thousand Voices: Flash 2d6 (Mental Group), Damage Shield - Mental (+1/2), Continuous (+1) (15 Active Points)	1
5	Tough: Damage Resistance (5 PD/5 ED)
30	Tougher Than They Look: Energy Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50%
30	Tougher Than They Look: Physical Damage Reduction, Resistant, 50%
12	Effortless: +2" Running (8" total), Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (12 Active Points)
10	Effortless: for STR, Reduced Endurance 0 END (+1/2) (10 Active Points)

Powers Cost: 236

Cost	Skill
3	Acting 13-
3	Contortionist 13-
3	Conversation 13-
3	High Society 13-
3	Mimicry 13-
3	Persuasion 13-
3	Seduction 13-
3	Shadowing 13-
3	Stealth 13-
3	Tracking 13-

Skills Cost: 30

Cost	Talent
9	Ambidexterity (Eliminate Off Hand Penalty entirely)
12	Combat Luck (6 PD/6 ED)
4	Double Jointed
5	Eidetic Memory
3	Lightning Reflexes: +2 DEX to act first with All Actions

Talents Cost: 33

Val	Disadvantages
15	Psychological Limitation: Driven to Make Everyone "Perfect" (Just like us...) (Common; Strong)
15	Psychological Limitation: Loyal to Each Other (Common; Strong)
5	Distinctive Features: Mutant Aura (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable Only By Unusual Senses)
5	Distinctive Features: Increadibly Beautiful (Easily Concealed; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

Disadvantage Points: 40

Base Points: 300Experience Required: 150Total Experience Available: 150Experience Unspent: 0Total Character Cost: 490

Height: 5' 6"	Hair: Blonde
Weight: 122 lbs	Eyes: Blue

Appearance: One or more of the most beautiful woman possible. An identical horde of supernaturally stunning pop-culture icons.Personality: Unity is supremely confident and absolutely driven. She wants nothing more than to make everyone Perfect, just like her. She is utterly convinced in the rightness of all of her means and ends. Anyone who opposes, resists, or flees her is completely in the wrong, either misguided or evil. She cannot comprehend why anyone would be afraid or reluctant to join her, why anyone would refuse Perfection. Every Unity has this personallity. Quote:"What's wrong? Don't you want to be Perfect?"Background: Powers/Tactics: A single Unity will use guile. A group will attempt to overwhelm. Given the opportunity, one Unity can become scores in a matter of minutes. This exponential effect, their intelligence, and their implacable determination, make any number a serious threat to normals. While the typical superhuman can deal with one, or four, or even eight, few can deal with 32, or 128, or 512, or...

 

To make matters worse, Unity as a group will absorb the skills and memories of any being that falls victim to their power. Any plan against them will be revealed as soon as one member of an opposing force falls victim. The best security can be compromised once one individual with access is taken. What one knows, they all know.

 

Characters with unusual defenses will fare quite a bit better against Unity. Power Defense is very effective against Unity of the Flesh, while Mental Defense is very effective against Unity of the Mind and Unity of the Soul. Because of the time it takes, it is also possible to interupt the transformation before it is complete. (This can also lead to some interesting situations in which only one or two segments of the victim's being will be affected. A mentalist may only be transformed physically, for example. Or, a character might see a slight change in personality and intellect, or a change in eye and hair color.)

Campaign Use: Unity is a mastermind and a seductress and a zombie horde all in one. Her abilities are terrifying to most, and also have a certain dark appeal for many at the same time.

Situation: 2d6 Flash defined as affecting the Mental Sense Group, set up as a Mental Damage Shield. Question: the target would be protected by Flash Defense (Mental), rather than by Mental Defense, correct?

Re: Fight SMARTER, not harder!

 

Originally posted by Oruncrest

More like:

5) Robin beats Penguin first. Realizing that he probably won't be able to cause Brainiac any damage (Braniac has the defenses to go toe to toe with Superman after all), Robin tries to find out what Brainiac & Penguin were up to, then puts a stop to their nefarious scheme while Superman puts the kibosh on Brainiac.

 

Success isn't necesarily determined by how many people you can beat up un a turn you know. And who knows, if there's some sort of equipment around that can stop or slow Brainiac down enough for Supes to clobber him, Robin would use it.

 

In fact, there's a Superman annual (#10 I believe) where robin does just that. Superman is wrapped up in the coils of a parasitic plant, the Black Mercy, and Mongul (who put Supes in that predicament, has just finished explaining what the Black Mercy is to Wonder Woman, Batman, and Robin and is wondering which of the three he should kill first.

 

While WW is punishing Mongul's fist mercilessly, Batman is getting the Black Mercy off of Superman. Robin tries to give Bats Monguls gloves (which Mongul had to use to handle the Black Mercy safely), but Batman ignores him and becomes the Black Mercy's next victim.

 

Superman wakes up. Robin points him in Mongul's direction and off Supes goes to open up a can of WhoopAss. Meanwhile, Robin uses Mongul's gloves to pull the Black Mercy off Batman (gotta love the glove) and goes off in the direction of the Supes/Mongul fight. Good thing too, 'cause Mongul had just gotten the upper hand when Robin shows up and drops the Black Mercy on him.

 

Useless? No. Even though Robin was well out of his weight class, he certainly wasn't useless.

 

And so the GM spends more of his time contriving situations that prop up the low-powered character than he spends on anything else. Sorry, no go. That kind of thing only works so often, and it's a lot easier to pull off in fiction where all of the characters and events are completely under control.

I have to point out two things:

 

A) Gold is a very soft metal. Titanium Brick, Iron Brick, and even Aluminum Brick are going to pound Gold Brick into gold leaf.

 

"Goldbricking" is old slang for being a lazy, shiftless, do-nothing. Or something like that.

A strict reading of the power would seem to indicate that EGO+30 is required. Any differing opinions?

Originally posted by Gary

Yeah, it could simply be that one of them had a bad day, had a head cold, made lots of unforced errors or double faults, played on a bad surface, the opponent was simply inspired that day, etc. All of these factors could easily apply in comics offscreen.

 

Offscreen doesn't count. At all. If the book or movie or comic doesn't show me (or at least tell me) something, then it doesn't happen, and it doesn't exist, and it doesn't matter.

 

 

The GM shouldn't have to "fudge and nudge" on a regular basis. If you have to overrule the dice multiple times every session, you haven't done your job very well. IMO.

What level of effect would need to be rolled to absorb / copy memories and skills?

Originally posted by Agent X

I hate the active point limit. Some power constructs are vastly more expensive active point wise than they will be effective. I think the "GM lookover" is a much better method of making sure things are okay - assuming your GM knows their stuff.

 

Still, you could use a certain limit of active points as a "red flag" to help you spot problems. Not a hard cap, just something to help you out.

 

No?