DoctorItron

Q: Capt. Kirk, why are you spending so much time with that Orion dancing girl?

A: Mechanon at the bottom of a crater in a parking lot.

(Edit: oops, I was too late. Enforcer84 hit the submit button before I did.)

I can't give too many details because some of my players read these boards, but the recurring baddies are:

#1: Teleios is an important part of 2 PCs' origins.

#2: A heavily modified Black Paladin is after 2 PCs. The New Defenders temporarily banished him to the Plane of Shadows. Black Paladin is using the downtime to think about ways to get his son and would-be-servant (2 separate PCs) to cooperate with his plans.

#3: A new team of morally-gray supers are ready to irrevocably change the world. I look forward to seeing how the New Defenders react. Will the PCs join them, oppose them, or try to peacefully co-exist?

Originally posted by BNakagawa

PD: Certainly baseball isn't as contact intensive as football or boxing, but it should be pointed out that a significant number of baseball players played football in either high school or college. Point 2: Catchers. Point 3. Sliding. You won't last long in this game with a 2 PD. They tend to run faster than average normals and sliding will do more damage the faster you go. Point 4: you can't be afraid of the ball. Everyone in the major leagues will have been hit with countless pitched and batted balls by the time they make the show. If you're going on the DL with broken bones every other game, your career is over before it begins. The minor leagues would be a death sentence if they all had 2 pds.

Death sentence??? Catchers wear protective gear to augment their PD. Players slide onto a smooth infield that isn't supposed to have rocks, not broken glass.

In the Hero System, STUN damage completely heals in minutes (unless you're knocked into GM's discretion la-la land). BODY takes days to heal. To me, this means that BODY damage isn't just broken bones. Sprains, strains, scrapes, cuts, bruises can all mean BODY damage.

If a batter gets hit by a pitch, it's not unreasonable that they'll be hurt the next day. Not in a coma, no broken bones, still able to play baseball ... but they have a bruise and ache where they were hit. Taking 1 or 2 BODY doesn't mean they'd be on the disabled list. Professional athletes often play with minor injuries.

If batters had enough PD to take pitches without getting injured, they wouldn't need helmets, and they wouldn't charge the mound when the pitcher threw at them.

BODY: Hero says 30 Body is human maximum, I say 20 is about the tops you're going to find in the general population. Either way, Baseball players are going to be a lot closer to 20 than 10.

 

You can interpret BODY in a number of ways. Is it sheer body mass? Baseball players tend to be larger than average people. Certainly not to the extent that football players are, but still quite largish. I remember when middle infielders used to be smaller than the average man, but that was quite some time ago.

 

Is BODY a measurement of overall health? Ballplayers tend to be a lot healthier than the general population. Certainly, there are exceptions, but the average MLB player is a cut above the average man. An average man probably couldn't make it through a full 162 game season, especially if they play in the midwest or south in an outdoor field. (thankfully rare these days)

 

Is BODY related to willpower? Surely, even some small people have an immense will to live, completely out of proportion to their size and/or health. Again, your average MLB player has an above average will, just about any way you want to measure it. Chances are, they wouldn't have gotten to the big leagues without it.

 

These are the only measurements we can reliably use. We don't have a good way of quantifying how many bullets you can pump into a person before they die. (not with any amount of clinical precision, anyway)

 

I look at things in this way: What percentage of the general population would you categorize as having a higher BODY rating than the average MLB ballplayer? Of all the people I've personally met, I've met maybe five that I might put in that category. So, the way I look at it, the average MLB ballplayer is going to have a BODY rating in the 75-90 percentile range. If you're using the human max of 30, then ballplayers should be seeing body stats up to 25. If you're using 20, then maybe topping out at 18 would do.

 

$0.02 and a handfull of sunflower seeds.

By the Hero System rules, isn't BODY used primarily for the amount of physical damage that can be done before someone dies? Overall health is primarily CON and maybe REC. Willpower is EGO.

25 BODY Remember, the context of the original question is within the realm of a superhero game. That's not a typical baseball player, that's a character from an action movie. With 25 BODY:

1) Doctor Destroyer would have to roll exceptionally well to kill a baseball player in one shot.

2) I think a tank gun does something like 6d6 RKA. Average of 21 damage, maximum of 36. The baseball player can get shot by the main gun of a tank and still have positive BODY most of the time. Might not even need medical attention. Even on a perfect roll of 36 BODY, the baseball player would be at -11 BODY. A good doctor could save him.

3) Grond would have to punch the baseball player ~ 3 times before the baseball player was dead. Grond is suddenly a lot less impressive...

I like a lot of the Rifts conception but dislike the rules. There are too many inconsistencies between different sourcebooks.

I don't think that you can do a linear conversion of Rifts damage into Hero damage, especially with Rifts' SDC/MDC rules. Here's what I suggest as a starting point:

MDC laser pistol = 3d6 RKA

MDC laser rifle = 4d6 RKA

Man-portable rail gun = 4d6 RKA autofire

Vehicle-mounted rail gun = 6d6 RKA autofire

Mini-missile = 3d6 RKA

Short range missile = 4d6 RKA

Medium range missile = 7d6 RKA

Long range missile = 10d6 RKA

Disclaimer: My numbers might be completely off for the type of game you want to run. I tend to like the fact that Champions makes instant character deaths very rare. Rifts character deaths, IMO, are much more common.

Originally posted by BNakagawa

You're assuming baseball players have 2 PD and 10 BODY?

 

I can't find a player at the major league level who I would categorize as 2pd, 10 body.

 

Maybe the little league world series, where some of the players are bigger than me, and some of them aren't. (what are they feeding the kids these days?)

I could see going to 3 PD. Higher than that doesn't make sense for the typical baseball player - they don't specifically train to absorb damage. Boxers and football(American) players would have better PD.

10 BODY is substantial. The average person starts at 8.

What PD and BODY do you think a professional baseball player should have?

Originally posted by BNakagawa

FWIW, A really good major league fastball tops out around 100 mph. Perhaps the radar guns are running a little hot, but even so, you're looking high 90's easy.

 

Given that people have been knocked out of the game for months at a time as a result of being plonked by fastballs, I think the estimate of 2-4 dc is a little low. Players wouldn't need batting helmets if a fastball only did 2-4 dice, would they? I don't think catchers wear all that protective gear to shield themselves from 2-4 dc.

 

$0.02

2d6 is way too low. 4d6 might be okay.

Normals have 8 BODY, 2 PD. Since most baseball players are in good shape, let's say they have 10 BODY. A 4d6 fastball averages 4 BODY, enough to do 2 BODY everytime it hits the catcher, so you can bet he'd be wearing protective gear!

4d6 maxes out at 8 BODY. Double that for getting hit in the head and you've got 16 BODY. That's going to put someone in the hospital a long time if they don't have protective gear.

I have no idea if a baseball disintegrates at 1400 mph. However, even if it could survive the throw, it might disintegrate when hitting a tough superhero, and therefore not do much damage. I suggest that your villain sounds more plausible if he carries modified baseballs that are solid enough to deal superheroic damage.

As for the damage, pick whatever is appropriate for the campaign. If he's a minor villainous agent, then an 8d6 EB might be right. If he's an elite hitman, then a 4d6 RKA might be better.

The fastball villain could have the following attacks:

1) Fastball: RKA vs. PD.

2) Changeup: Energy Blast vs. PD.

3) Beanball: NND. Defense is a helmet or other hard head covering.

4) Curveball: Energy Blast with Indirect advantage.

5) Missile Deflection: He tosses a ball to intercept attacks.

All of the above could possibly be done with regular baseballs. If you want to make Fastball more of a gadgeteer, additional attacks such as explosions, flashes, gas attacks, etc. become possible.

I think such a character is okay, but remember:

1) Affects Physical World is a +2 advantage. 20 STR telekinesis will cost 90 active points, as much as an 18d6 energy blast. So? The ghost character may not be able to affect many villains with his powers. Make sure the player really understands this going into the game.

2) Many villains will never be able to affect the ghost. This means your "villain ambushes the PCs, knocks them all out, captures them" scenarios work best with mentalist and magical villains.

Ghost characters are similar to "immense defense, very weak attack" characters. If you think a character with 50 PD, 50 ED, and measly attacks could fit into your game, then the ghost can, too.

My vote for CV penalties goes to the DEX Drain. You can easily customize the recovery rate to match the disease. Power Defense certainly seems like an appropriate defense to resist disease, reinforcing my belief that Drain simulates the intended effect.

Flash heals too quickly. Plus, Flash Defense seems like a goofy protection from disease: "Fortunately, my cool sunglasses protected me from Dr. Disease's deadly plague"

Change Environment, or CV penalties usable against others, could do it, but I believe each of these alternatives is more complex than a good old-fashioned drain.

Install a torpedo, change the paint job to look like a sea snake, and VIPER has a new vehicle:

http://www.bionicdolphin.com

http://www.bahnhof.se/~wizard/cryptoworld/index38a.html

I'm playing a martial artist who can manifest weapons. He's primarily a HTH fighter, so I just did it with:

STR bonus

0 END

No Figured Characteristics

I took STR, rather than Hand Attack, because some martial weapons can be used to grab and disarm.

Originally posted by Arthur

SNIP

We appear to be in a transitional period. In the "halls of power" in upper-level business and politics, it's still male-dominated. However, that is OTHER MEN (unless there is a CEO reading this). Those guys in that world are "old school". The CEO/politicos are a throwback to an earlier time, and that is changing fast. As the most recent generations grow up indoctrinated in male-bashing, that's going to change. Cultural change takes a long time, and older members typically reflect the values of a disappearing era.

SNIP

Good point about the "old school".

As for younger people being "indoctrinated in male-bashing", you're blowing this out of proportion. Take a look at people in their early twenties. They still hold a lot of "traditional old fashioned" values.

Yes, male/female roles have changed quite a bit, but most of those changes took place over a decade ago. While things are still evolving, the rate of change has dramatically slowed. I take that as a sign that the current generation is satisfied with the changes (or at least has other priorities).

Originally posted by DocMan

You benefit from discrimination? Will wonders never cease!

 

As a white male, society has institutionalized discrimination against me. If I apply for a job, even if I am the most qualified applicant, the job will go to someone who is a "minority" (Not speaking generalities here, it really happened). Since I am white, slavery is my personal fault. Since I am male, everyone assumes I am privileged. The truth is that I have to work harder, and am held to a higher standard than my co-workers. Even my right to complain about discrimination has been removed, since management will never find in my favor for fear of being labeled as "prejudiced".

 

Doc

Sorry it took so long for me to reply. I haven't checked this thread in a while.

(Important note to people who haven't read my previous posts: I put "benefit" in quotes. While I receive some limited advantageous (sp.) side-effects from discrimination, as a whole I'd be better off if there was less discrimination.)

Here's how I "benefit" as a white male:

1) I get paid more than others. For the same work.

2) If I get pulled over for a minor traffic infraction, I have a better chance of avoiding a ticket than a racial minority. (/sarcasm on) However, women do have an advantage over me, with their ability to cry on demand (/sarcasm off)

3) Co-workers don't call me a bitch if I complain about something.

DocMan, you said that "If you apply for a job ... the job will go to someone who is a minority". The reverse is much more common. If what you said were universally true, then virtually no white male would be able to find a job, since there's probably at least one minority applicant.

I work as a computer consultant / programmer/ systems analyst in New York. What field are you in? Maybe the discrimination discrepancies we're experiencing are due to our work or where we live?

Originally posted by D-Man

The continuing raw advantages of being male do not mitigate (or justify) the fact that there is an accepted trend in feminized pop culture to demean men.

I agree. My post was intended to refute the implication that equality, as a whole, has gone too far. Never meant to justify the ads. While I find them inoffensive and harmless, their attempts at humor fall flat.

Many proponents for "equality" will protest over jokes targeting women or minorities, yet they'll cheer these ads that target men. Hell, they'll even protest against spousal abuse, then praise a woman who decides to mutilate her allegedly abusive husband instead calling the police or divorcing him.

Originally posted by Arthur

That is an extremely common reaction from anybody who is a accepted member of modern society when reading literature that old. Today's culture is extremely feminized, and males are depicted as pathetic, stupid, and weak most of the time. Watch commercials on TV and make a list sometime. See how many times the man is shown as clueless, while a woman shows up with all the answers. Decades ago, men were men. Women pushed for equality, which was great, but now the balance is tipped the other way.

Arthur, your choice of words ("tipped the other way") suggests that things are as unequal for men now as they were for women decades ago. Men can still vote and choose their career - I see no chance of that going away. Many companies still pay men more than women for the same job. As a group, men still have more power than women, especially in the business world.

Males are depicted as pathetic, stupid, and weak "some" of the time, not "most"of the time.

Yes, some things have gone too far and favor women, and these problem need fixing. Or, like child custody, perhaps some problems always favored women, but men of decades past didn't care as much.

As a white male I know my chances of "benefitting" from discrimination are much higher than my risks of being discriminated against. I see little chance of that changing in my lifetime.

This is a very intriguing idea. You seem to have covered all the bases. Considering how many disads and limitations a standard superhero has, though, prepare to hand out a lot of luck points.

Also try awarding extra experience points instead of luck points.

FTJoshua, please post summaries of the PCs and major NPCs (the mutant Senator, etc.). We might be able to offer even more suggestions for ways to keep the campaign alive.

Originally posted by FTJoshua

The initial attack was authorized by the State of Arizona, which used Federal resources. Due to the small scale of the operation, it didn't really hit much radar in Washington.

SNIP

Maybe the news media finds out that the gov't kidnapped innocent civilians to use as bait. This might provide an opportunity to de-escalate some of the tension. The news report will make the gov't look like bad guys and the public will be less supportive of the gov't. Drop hints to the PCs that they can use this opportunity to either lie low or start a public relations camapign; an attack on the gov't will surely rally the public to the gov't's side and hurt the PC's cause.

There could be Congressional hearings, too. The Governor of Arizona (or whoever directed the attack on the PCs) probably committed some major crimes by using civilians as bait.

None of this will make the gov't and PCs buddies, but it will demonstrate that the gov't is not one big monolithic entity that exists only to go after the PCs.

Originally posted by FTJoshua

SNIP

(Sidebar: There is a Texas senator who the PC's know for a fact is a mutant, who has been organizing mutants behind the scenes to fight major threats to security, like REX [our "Viper"]. But they refuse so far to divulge their plans to him because he's a senator, and can't be trusted. Cripes, what's a GM got to do?)

SNIP

Drop more clues that the Senator is a good guy. Maybe he contacts the PCs and provides information about the gov't bad guys? His "mutant network" probably has some telepaths and clairvoyants able to track down the PCs.

What are the Senator's powers? Can he or any of his friends resurrect some of the PCs friends who died during the failed gov't attack? "Here, Mr. PC, my mutant network just brought your girlfriend back to life. Now do you believe I'm a good guy?"

If the PCs still wind up storming the Capitol, coincidentally have the Senator be one of the first people they encounter. He might try to talk the PCs down with a "no, this is not the way to handle it, because it will make things worse for mutants" speech. If the PCs persist, maybe he uses his powers to protect the Capitol. This could make the Senator a hero, and cause some people to reconsider the "all mutants bad" attitude.

Cynical me

From what I've read on Metalstorm, the largest ammo capacity is currently 540 rounds. That gives you an amazing 0.00054 seconds of withering firepower

I think the best use for this type of technology might actually be in small arms. A shooter can fire small bursts without recoil tossing off aim - the last bullet is out of the gun before the barrel begins to move.

You might not even need the military. The 9 PCs announce "We are taking over the country!" I think virtually every American would unite against them, including superheroes and supervillains. Certainly there must be a few supers with "teleport target to the moon" or "drain superpower" powers.

If you're running an atypical game where the PCs are the only people in the country with superpowers, then the military would break out attack helicopters, A10's (the ugly flying tanks), and other heavy weapons. If that still didn't work, and the government was about to be taken over by a hostile force, collateral damage would become acceptable and chemical or even nuclear weapons might be used.

There's always the more subtle approach, too. Do any of the PCs have friends and family? Take hostages!

Do you place active point, damage class, or other power level limits on characters? If yes, then you can set different limits for multipower and non-multipower powers.

For example, let's say you've determined that the "standard" energy blast in your game is 12d6. If EB is bought in a multipower, then don't allow a player to exceed 12d6. If a player buys the EB outside a multipower, then let it go higher, perhaps to 14d6.

As you award experience and adjust these limits over time, you'll see that the characters with multipowers become very versatile, being able to do a little bit of everything. The characters without multipowers, on the other hand, remain narrowly focused but are often "the best at what they do".

Rely on super pseudoscience to define the cyber eyes. How do they work? The N-ray vision might be defined as:

- Noticing subatomic particles that pass through walls? Stopped by lead, or superdense substances with a DEF > 6.

- Thermal vision? Stopped by heavy insulation, or by intense heat and cold.

- Detecting electrical impulses, including those from nerves? Stopped by other electrical signals (i.e. can't see through crowds, household appliances, etc.).

I thought about my non-persistent objection some more. Perhaps I'm having a problem with non-persistent applied to a power that doesn't cost END or charges. Doesn't seem particularly limiting:

My character goes to bed at night. The DEX is non-persistent, so it goes away. No problem, since I'm DEX 0 anyway when asleep. Character wakes up. First action of the day - turn on DEX. Technically, even if surprised, I think the DEX would stay on all day unless stunned or knocked out.

Otherwise, characters who rely on force fields would be in *big* trouble. "I attack Force Field Man by sounding an air horn. He's surprised, right? Good. I one-punch him while all his defenses deactivate."

However, since you're only getting a -1/4 limitation for the non-persistent, simply change the limitation to something like "not when surprised" and all is good.

I think it's okay except for the Nonpersistent. DEX that doesn't work when you are knocked out!? I think all DEX effectively works that way because your OCV and DCV become useless while you're unconscious. Therefore, nonpersistent wouldn't be worth any points in my game.