Nolgroth

Re: The Hero curse

You betcha! Even the most inane things like stupid commericials I'd assign some sort of ad lib power construct to.

Re: The Wheel of Time

Eosin,

Just had a couple of brainstorms. Your comments on Talents being irrelevant to the strength of the channeler sparked a couple of ideas.

Idea 1. Based very much on how I saw your channeling system, have each Weave built on different strengths. I imagine that the Weave itself is taught the same and the only difference between them is how much strength the individual "brings to the table." The channeler chooses at which strength to attempt the Weave based on how large their Pool is for that element.

Idea 2. If Talents are not necessarily related to the strength of the channeler, then buy them as separate powers. The Turakian Age magic system and a few of the sample ones from Fantasy HERO have set the precedent in giving spells a discounted price of Real Cost divided by 3 or 5. Since most channelers have just a couple of Talents, that shouldn't be too much of problem or expense.

Idea 3. Weaves can duplicate Talents, but are dictated by the strength of the channeler and are designed at the levels.

That's about it at the moment, but I think we are getting closer.

So how do you knot Weaves without a major game imbalance? Some situations, especially with Shielding, were knotted for extremely long periods of time, such as when Lanfear shielded Asmodean so he could teach Rand or when Moghedian shielded Liandrin with a knot so convoluted that it would take some time for Liandrin to figure it out.

Re: The Wheel of Time

]PS - The more I think about basing this off "The Gift" the more I like it. I am even considering chaning how I do it in my home game. Kudos to you - I was just talking about how my own system is already fully realized and participation in your thread was something like a scavenger hunt for little gems. Never expected to feel the desire to convert my own system

 

There is an up side to that - when I finish building characters they will be grossly compatible with your system.

My ultimate goal is to create a HERO to Wheel of Time resource. I truly am glad that you like where this is going. I know there are some rough spots to smooth over as we go along. I just think that we could build a pretty complete and playable "genre" book for Wheel of Time. And gross compatibility is a good thing.

Now, the Gift was only the base idea. I have modified the system to be a multiple of EGO, instead of a straight pool. I figured that would make Linking, angreal and Shielding easier by having them Aid or Suppress EGO. I differed the costs for males and females as well. Well, you saw the above outline. Are you working on the same premis or using the Gift wholecloth?

Re: The Wheel of Time

I believe both Aes Sedai and to a lesser extent their Warders get retarded aging, which makes an AS also eligible for a Distinctive Feature, "the ageless look." It was notable enough that Siuan (sp?), the former Amyrilin Seat, wasn't much recognized after being stilled.

 

JG

Yeah, did the expanded lifespan and ageless features for the Aes Sedai. I don't think that the Warders live as long, but maybe a lower expanded lifespan for the Warder. Thanks.

Re: The Wheel of Time

Callandor did indeed block Balefire BUT that is the only thing to have done so - I would chalk that up to the item and not a shield since the white hot bar seperated upon meeting callandor.

I don't disagree with the sheer book interpretation. Mind you, Callandor and cuendillar are the only two substances in the novels that seem to resist Balefire. Could you imagine how abusive an attack power without a defense would be though? If there are no defenses to Balefire for the "average" person, then this should be controlled with an iron fist by the GM.

Of course, if you could Dispel/Suppress Balefire before it strikes you....

A tricky problem.

Re: The Wheel of Time

You are on the right trail but the Weaves need some more definition.

 

EXAMPLE: Healing is gradual effect over the duration of a day or so and has a side effect of prostigious hunger - if recipient goes more than 3 hours without a large meal they suffer 3d6 END drain (21 total END loss). This has a continuing duration of 1-5 days depending on the power of the Healing Weave.

And here is where we run into some issues with inconsistency. In some cases (Tam's and Mat's) we see it take time and they have to eat like pigs (well we assume so in Tam's case). In others, the wounds just seem to disappear and the characters feel immediately exhausted/hungry. So do you make up two different abilities for that?

Here is how I did Arms of Air

I have always liked the way you did that. Just don't want to violate too many rules by placing a Multipower into an already discounted VPP.

Interestingly, I only have a minor quibble about your Balefire. Hero System lists 8d6 Killing as an Absolute Effect - don't roll the dice, if it hits they are dead (I always try to stick with an established canon rule if possible). The second quibble is AP - what might they hit that is hardened? Overall, I would just change it to 8d6 and drop the AP which is unnecessary in WOT.

Again, I don't have all the rules memorized yet. If I'd have known that, I would have stuck to the canon rules. AP was added because they may hit an armored foe and it's specifically because it halves defenses, unless they are hardened. Now, with this 8d6k attack defined as an "instant kill, that seems less than necessary. Do you have a Book and Page reference?

The final thought is on the scope of Balefire and why doing things like a Transform doesn't work with it. Balefire should either be bought as Indirect or AE: Line since it totally destroys anything in its path (something that Transform cannot do). If you go with indirect then what you are saying is "Game effect wise it just burns a hole in anything out to its maximum range." But that really doesn't capture the effect we have seen in some of the books (disagree with this one particular scene or not) - Sammael and Rand sweep their Balefire archs across a field at each other leaning me towards AE: Line. As a game mechanic I prefer Indirect but similuationist wise it seems that line is more in line with the books.

Perhaps AOE Line and Continuous? That would burn a helluva lot of END. Almost would have to buy half-end just to be able to use it. Ouch.

Re: The Wheel of Time

I would take this out of the AS abilities and move it into a new category called One Power Talents - that section would cover things that not every AS can do like Foretelling, Healing, Sense Residue (Weave Sight with the ability to see it through time), Increased Senses, Weave Inversion, Balefire, and others.

 

The reasoning behind this is that no matter what your strength in the five powers, not everyone can Heal (or any of the other listed talents). It isn't that they don't have the power or can't see the weaves --- They just can't master certain facets of the One Power.

Hurm. First of all, THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK! I have read all of your responses and some of the ideas were ones that I just couldn't figure out. I wanted to get something out on the table so we could hack a channeling system together.

Talents versus taught Weaves. How do you define the difference? Almost any Aes Sedai has shown the ability to Heal, but some just seem to be able to do so better. I'm currently re-reading the books and haven't gotten to the point where I can reference and index the different abilities. Balefire does seem to be a Weave that can be taught/learned, though we don't know how Moiraine learned it. It could also very well be a Talent. Also, I think a lot of our perceptions about how channeling works comes from Rand's POV. He is almost certainly not a "typical" case. With LTT in his head, how much of Rand's channeling is spontaneous and how much of it is shared memory? Rand has specifically stated a few times "That was from Lews Therinn."

I assume this is a POWER roll? If so' date=' what stat is it based off? I would suggest EGO.[/quote']

Yes it is as a matter of fact, and based on EGO. One of the things I think HERO Designer could do MUCH better is add the ability to create package deals. As it is, I create a prefab, create a character, load prefab into character, export character to TXT file using HERO boards template, copy portion that I want to post. I could almost do it faster by straight text if I had the rules memorized. When I was younger, gamed more, and used rules more frequently in games, I actually could memorize the rules and even which page they were on. I don't know if it is the lack of a solid gaming group or age that has diminished this ability. Anyway, a very long answer to a simple question.

 

 

I agree with the vague rankings but I would provide a solid ranking in the White Tower hierarchy.

Hadn't really gotten into the ranking system yet. Most, if not all of what I've posted here was created on the fly.

 

 

I would do this a little differently. Lose the will to live: EGO drain, REC per month.

Not so much with the Aes Sedai, though that's a real handy one with the Warders. Maybe a lesser EGO drain or a quicker REC.

 

I will pull out the handy dandy FH book and look over the GIFT to see where you are going since this give me an idea but is still murkily defined.

Yes it is murkily defined. Best way to test an idea is to put it into the hands of somebody that a)Comes at the whole concept from a different view and Can break it. That fits the HERO boards users quite well.

Re: The Wheel of Time

Well, you cannot have an Aes Sedai without having a Warder (well, not counting Reds and those just raised to the shawl. ). This should provide a pretty good template to start out with.

Warder Package

COST..SKILL

...3..Analyze Combat (Int)

...3..Fast Draw (Dex)

...3..Riding (Dex)

...3..Shadowing (Dex)

...3..Stealth (Dex)

...5..WF: Common Melee Weapons, Common Missile Weapons, Off Hand

...9..+3 with Martial Maneuvers

..29..Total Skills Cost

Martial Maneuvers (Blademastery - Default Weapon Element: Blades)

COST..MANEUVER

...5..Defensive Strike (1/2 Phs, +1 OCV/+3 DCV, Weapon +2 DCV Strike)

...4..Martial Block (1/2 Phs, +2 OCV/+2 DCV, Block Abort)

...4..Martial Disarm (1/2 Phs, -1 OCV/ +1 DCV, Disarm +20 Str)

...4..Martial Strike (1/2 Phs, +0 OVC/+2 DCV, Weapon +4 DC)

...5..Offensive Strike (1/2 Phs, -2 OCV/+1 DCV, Weapon +6 DC Strike)

...4..Weapon Bind (1/2 Phs, +1 OCV/ +0 DCV, Bind +20 Str)

...8..+2 DC (Bonuses already figured in to maneuvers)

..34..Total Martial Arts Cost

Notes

This is a very basic list of skills that a Warder might possess. Most Warders would have many other skills to represent both their training and background. Combat skills, as allowed by the GM, are excellent choices.

COST..PERK

...0..Standard Quality Sword and Fancloth Cloak

...5..Masterwork Quality Sword and Fancloth Cloak

..10..Heron Mark Sword and Fancloth Cloak

..20..Power Wrought Sword and Fancloth Cloak

Notes

Warders are gifted with a sword and a fancloth cloak (the color-changing cloaks often described in the books). At its most basic level, this Perk costs no points and gives the Warder a sword of standard quality. Spending more points increases the quality of the sword's craftsmanship. The swords' are detailed in the Equipment section below.

COST..TALENT

...5..Rapid Healing (Fantasy HERO page 107)

Notes

Just about any Combat related Talent is appropriate for a Warder character. In particular, Combat Luck, Combat Sense, Deadly Blow, Fearless, Follow Through Attack, Lightsleep, and Mounted Warrior are appropriate Talents.

COST..POWER

...2..+2 Str

..10..+5 Rec

..10..+20 End

..10..+10 Stun

...6..Heightened Awareness (+2 PER with all Sense Groups)

..20..Sense Shadowspawn Detect 14- (Unusual Group), Increased Arc Of Per. (360 Degrees), Range, Sense

...5..Warder Bond Mind Link , with Aes Sedai, Can sense general location of, or direction to, bonded Aes Sedai., Psychic Bond (15 Active Points); Feedback STUN and BODY (-2), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)

..63..Total Powers Cost

.131..Total Character Cost (Does not include Sword quality Perk)

COST..CHARACTER DISADVANTAGES

..25..Enraged: Upon Bonded Aes Sedai's Death (Uncommon), go 14-, recover 8-, Rare Circumstance, Cannot Recover unless substantial effort is made to help Warder overcome the feeling of despair associated with losing his Aes Sedai.

...5..Must protect Aes Sedai: Aes Sedai 14- (As powerful as the PC; Useful Noncombat Position or Skills)

..15..Physical Limitation: Subject to Aes Sedai's orders (Compulsion through bond) (Infrequently, Fully Impairing)

...5..Reputation: Thrall of the White Tower/Aes Sedai, 8-

..15..Social Limitation: Subject to Tower Law and to orders which may lead to lethal situations (Occasionally, Severe)

..15..Watched: White Tower 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, PC has a Public ID or is otherwise very easy to find, Watching)

..75..Total Disadvantages (80, but max. disadvantages = 75)

Equipment

Fancloth Cloak Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); all slots OIF (-1/2)

(ultra) Invisibility to Sight Group (20 Active Points); Independent (-2), Chameleon (-1/2), OIF (-1/2)

(ultra) +5 with Shadowing and Stealth (15 Active Points); OIF (-1/2)

Standard Sword Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 1 1/2d6 (25 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum 12 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4)

Masterwork Sword (+1 OCV) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6-1 (30 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum 12 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4)

Heron Mark Sword (+3 OCV) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6+1 (50 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), STR Minimum 12 (-1/2), Real Weapon (-1/4), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4)

Power Wrought Blade (+3 OCV) Killing Attack - Hand-To-Hand 2d6+1, Armor Piercing (+1/2) (67 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF Unbreakable (-1), STR Minimum 10 (-1/2), Required Hands One-And-A-Half-Handed (-1/4), Real Weapon (-1/4)

Notes

This version of the Warder Archetype (package seems rather inappropriate due to the large amount of points pre-spent) has been updated with more skills, martial arts maneuvers and powers. Some of the write-ups have been altered since the original write-up was posted..

Re: The Wheel of Time

B

I would have built as a major transform, alive and well to erased from continuity with side-effects. I think side effects would be good because the more active points you put in a power, the worse it gets. So the more balefire, the more stuff falls apart.

A killing attack and major transform both cost 15 Active Points per die. Boils down to six of one, half-dozen of the other. You still have to account for all the changes that happen when the person's thread is burnt out. I suppose a large enough Transform, Area of Effect might do the trick, but that seems even more kludgy to me than the way I did it.

Side effects, such as some sort of collateral damage is a good idea. Now the question becomes what exactly are the nature of the side effects and do they change?

edit: Also, I'm pretty sure someone of the forsaken has said that balefire can cut through shields.

I seem to remember that Rand blocked balefire at the end of Dragon Reborn. Now it could have been some other "white bar of energy" Weave, but it seemed to be balefire from the description. Mind you, Rand was holding Callandor at that time so the massive influx of One Power energy may have been the only thing that saved him.

Besides, as I stated earlier, the role-playing aspects have to be slightly different than the novel ones. There have to be some kludges to make sure that there is a semblance of game balance.

Thanks for the input. Have to look at the Side Effect options to see if there is anything I want to add. Keep in mind, that these are just my ideas. If you use them as a springboard for your own interpretations, then so much the better. I'm just rather excited that I've actually had the mental energy to create the stuff that I have done so far and I still feel an urge to do more.

Re: The Wheel of Time

Charging right along, I offer you a basic Aes Sedai package. It doesn't include any Ajah specific information, but it does include options for Warders and Foretelling. Of course the obligatory invitation to critique is extended.

AES SEDAI Package

COST SKILL

...5 Analyze Channeling Powers (INT)

...3 Bureaucratics (INT)

..15 Channeling (Power) (EGO) + 6

...9 Fast Channeling (EGO) + 3...

...3 High Society (PRE)

...3 KS: One Power (INT)

...3 KS: Tower Law and Customs (INT)

...3 KS: Identifying and Combating Shadowspawn (INT)

..10 Choose from the following: Combat Skill Levels (for Channeling), Conversation, Deduction, Disguise, Forgery, Knowledge Skill, Language, Oratory, Paramedic, Persuasion, Professional, Science, Skill Levels, or Trading

..54 Total Skills Cost

COST PERK

...3 Access - White Tower...

...3 Membership: Aes Sedai Ajah

..25 (Optional) Bound Warder- One 125/75 pt Follower

..10 Choose from the following list: Anonymity, Contacts, Deep Cover, False Identity, Favors, Wealth, Nobility..

..41 Total Perks Cost

COST TALENT

...0 Affinity: Air (Average)

...0 Affinity: Earth (Lesser)

...0 Affinity: Fire (Lesser)

...0 Affinity: Spirit (Average)

...0 Affinity: Water (Average)

...0 Total Talents Cost

A more detailed explanation of how Channeling works can be found at [insert URL here].

COST POWER

...1 Slow Aging (Life Support: Longevity 200 Years)

...5 +5 INT

..10 +5 EGO

...5 +5 PRE

..30 Source Pool: Endurance Reserve (15 END, 30 REC) Usable By Other (+1/4) (31 Active Points); Costs END (See Channeling Rules for explanation.; -1/2), Requires An EGO Roll (No Active Point penalty to Skill Roll; -1/4)

...6 +3 PER with all Sense Groups (9 Active Points); Only when Embracing the Source (-1/2)

..57 Total Powers Cost

...4 (Optional) Warder Bond (Mind Link with Warder. Can sense general direction, emotional state, and physical condition of Warder. Psychic Bond. 10 Active Points.) Feedback STUN Only (-1), Only to determine emotional and physical status (-1/2), Does not provide Mental Awareness(-1/4)

...7(Optional) Warder Bond (1d6 Transfer END to END 15 Active Points.) Only from Bonded Warder (-1).

..11 Total Optional Powers Cost

127 Total Character Cost (163 with Options)

COST DISADVANTAGE

..10 Distinctive Features: Ageless Features (Easily Concealed; Always Noticed and Causes Major Reaction; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

..10 Hunted: White Tower 8- (Mo Pow, NCI, Watching)

..15 Physical Limitation: Cannot use the One Power as a weapon except in defense or herself, her warder or against Shadowspawn, Cannot use One Power to create weapons, Cannot Lie (Frequently, Greatly Impairing)

..10 Psychological Limitation: Lure of the One Power (Common, Moderate)

..15 Reputation: Tar Valon Witch, 11- (Extreme)

..15 Social Limitation: Subject to White Tower law and orders that may place Aes Sedai in possibly lethal situations (Occasionally, Severe)

..75 Total Disadvantages Cost

Notes: Once again, I've updated the Aes Sedai package to reflect a change in the Channeling Rules. I think the newer rules may be more fluid and easier to understand. There should be more consistency and fewer exceptions to how things are done.

Re: The Wheel of Time

Very interesting. Especially the variant costs for male and female talent and the "kludge" on Balefire. That is effectively the way to do it (i.e. Time Travel).

 

JG

Well, I suppose I could have made it one common use VPP with a bunch of different skill rolls, but dice rolling and I don't get along real well. I like my dice rolling to be sparse and to the point. The variant costs represent the differing strengths and weaknesses between the genders. I thought it was an effective way.

The whole Balefire construct is a kludge, but sometimes kludges are required in roleplaying games. HERO (thankfully) does not have an instant zap-death power, therefore you have to buy enough of an attack to do the deed, without sending the Active Points into the "Yeah, I can buy this power if I start a character today, play him every day for the next decade and have a REAL generous GM." range.

I wonder though, if I could apply the All or Nothing modifier from Transform onto the RKA. Sounds a bit munchkinish, but Balefire kills you if it hits you. If there is not enough Body done to kill somebody, then the Balefire should have logically missed the target. Hmmmnnn.

Naw, because that would mean that everybody would by their Body characteristic up in the off chance somebody uses Balefire against them. Tricky.

Re: The Wheel of Time

(Refer to Page 11 of this thread for the latest revision of the Channeling Rules.)

Re: The Wheel of Time

I like the desolid form myself - easy and absolute. Just like the medallion.

I do too, but I constantly concern myself with the question; Can this be used a cheat?. That's why I built the uber-suppress first. If I hadn't of stumbled across the specific example about using Desolid to represent a defense, I probably would have left it at that.

I look forward to seeing your channeling rules .... Like the rules for the Force we will all come at it a bit differently and IMO The One Power is even harder to model than the Force. It has to be able to accomodate Balefire and that is just flat out broken in terms of points using Hero System.

Balefire is a righteous pain in the arse to model in any non-arbitrary rules system. Since I never looked at d20 stuff, I don't even know how they model it there. I think that is a good thing, because a structure is starting to take place within the stuff I'm creating. Hmmmn. Before I post my channeling rules, I may want to look at Balefire and see how it fits.

As an aside, the rules I do have are in a highly prototypical form right now. I was more concerned with how to do Linking, Angreal, and Shielding than I was Balefire. Come to think on it....

Before I wrote my One Power Rules I took a long look at Nusoard's Rules which contain a ton of good ideas. Ultimately I went a little different route but don't neglect those threads since they cover a number of issues that might slip by you.

Those days were the proverbial good ol' days. We had a lot of discussion going on back then. Too bad so many of those people haven't been on the boards in a year or more. Nu Soard Graphite is a genius when it comes to using the HERO system. I've always thought that he has a lot of great ideas. I will take your advice with all the weight it carries...

Re: The Wheel of Time

Good ideas on the medallion. Except:

1. Desolid is the best absolute defense, but it doesn't allow you to attack unless everything you have (namely STR) is bought with +2 Affects Solid World Advantage. Buying it on the power itself is something of a cheat... but it may simplify things.

HERO Fifth specifically makes Affects Physical World on Strength and other attacks a GM option when using Desolid to represent a defense against a specific kind of attack. I figure using the +2 Advantage is a nice compromise. That's why I also added the +2 Advantage to cover all Channeling abilities. I was also thinking that it may well be a cheat, but there are only two instances where this effect has been seen. One is the Foxhead medallion and the other is from the Gholam. In either case, I do not think a character will have to pay for it with their own points (except for the aforementioned channeler who creates one and I certainly wouldn't spend that many points on something that could be used against me. ).

2. It's unclear whether the suppression effect works both ways' date=' that is whether wearing this medallion would stop a channeler from using her powers. Since it was intended to be used by a non-channeler, this may be redundant.[/quote']

 

Just my personal opinion, but I think the Medallion would work both ways. I'm not married to the concept, but it just seems to make sense to me.

 

3. Mat also gets a certain chill from the metal of the medallion when channeling is used around him' date=' whether it targets him or not. This would be a Detect with Sense.[/quote']

 

Doh! I knew I was forgetting something. It's minor, but still a part of what the medallion does. I'm getting ready for bed, but I'll post an update tomorrow.

 

Thanks for all the input. I say that whenever somebody responds, but I mean it every time. Even if I don't necessarily agree with you on a point, it gives me a valid counterargument to think about. You and Eosin have been a great help to me.

 

Tomorrow I may have the courage to throw up my channeling rules. Those are sure to elicit more than a few raised eyebrows.

Re: The Wheel of Time

Foxhead Medallion

Option 1: Suppress 67d6 (standard effect: 201 points), all [Channeling] powers simultaneously (+2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2) (1340 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (-1), No Range (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2)

This is my attempt at the Foxhead medallion and a base for the Gholams' Power neutralizing ability. I figure that 200 AP is about the most powerful Channeler that exists. Beyond that, the bearer of the Foxhead medallion is going to be in for a surprise. Of course, the way I am building things, that would take Rand, channeling Fire, with an Angrael/Sa'Angrael to effect him.

This thing is really expensive. Good thing Mat picked it up after he started the campaign. Since absolute effects are so difficult to do in HERO, the only way to simulate is to spend godawful points in things. I was real tempted to do some blatant rules raping and make it a Desolid versus all Channeling Powers. That just doesn't seem right somehow.

Anyway. There it is for your enjoyment.

EDIT: Doh! I just read the Desolidification rules from HERO 5th Edition. I suppose I should have done that first. May be able to work with that....

Okay, here is an alternate that is much cheaper. I have tried to keep it within the bounds of reason and use the Second Meta-Rule of HERO (Every attack or power that can be used offensively should should have some defense or way to avoid its effects; and the defense should be considerably cheaper. Page #559: HERO 5th Edition Revised). Even with that, I think it would be very easy to abuse Option 2.

Option 2: Desolidification (affected by all attacks other than channeling), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), Affects all Channeling Based Powers (+2), Remains Physical (character does not need to purchase STR or other attacks with Affects Physical World advantage; +2) (240 Active Points); Independent (-2), Only To Protect Against Channeling (-1), OAF (-1)

With Option 2, absolutely no channeling will affect the character. Not that any character with this ability will likely have to pay for it, but it is a nice reference and may also serve as the basis for the gholam power that does the same thing. Besides, if some Aes Sedai ter'angrael maker was so inclined to dump a bunch of points into making something with this power, nice to know how many she would need.

Anyway, thanks for taking a look. Please let me know what ya think.

Edit II: Due to recent changes in Board Policy, replaced table with COPY+PASTE directly from HERO Designer.

Re: The Wheel of Time

There's also the fact that in most cases, superpowers are the result of one special effect, the One Power. Dreaming abilities are an exception, and operate on their own rules. You can use the Power in the dream world, but it's also possible for a few people (like Wolfbrothers) to have lucid dreams and operate there, so one is not a subset of the other. But given that the dream world is effectively another dimension, however frequently it's accessed, the -1 Limitation is about right.

 

JG

Well, thank you for the input. I am not unreasonable with the whole Limitation value. To me, it is better to start with conservative values, test the waters and then change them as the situation warrants. And while I still argue (at least mildly) that Tel'aran'rhiod is just another sub-setting that will likely take part in many adventures and therefore less rare, I also realize that these packages are mucho expensive and a few points here and there are not going to destroy any game balance. Specifically, the Precognition is a story driven power and I'm all about driving the story. I also realize that many potential GMs may well not use TAR that much, so that increases the argument for a greater Limitation value.

Now, off to change them......

And thanks again.

EDIT: Not much of a heartache there. Saved three points or so off the Wolfbrother package and five points off the Dreamer package.

Re: The Wheel of Time

FWIW - per the Ult Mentalist (4th ED) "Precog' date=' Only while dreaming" is a -1 LIM and what I based my suggestion on - it is a standard limitation for a dreaming precog.[/quote']

 

I wonder though, if the Ultimate Mentalist (4th ED) had a solid campaign idea about a place that almost all of the main characters could access in one way or another. Not saying that the "case law" is wrong, but it seems a little bit much. Mind you, for the few powers that it would effect, the costs wouldn't drop by that much. I would have no real heartache about making the Limitation value -1.

Re: The Wheel of Time - Wolf Brother semi-final post

Should these abilities have the "Only in Tel' (-1)" limitation?

Maybe. At least, perhaps, I could give them a value equal to Linked (to Dream Form) (-1/2) for Only in Tel'aran'rhiod. It seems that a lot could happen in TAR and those abilities don't seem like they would be that restricted by the TAR only usage.

Thanks for the feedback. Now I have to post updates.

EDIT: Updates now posted. Thanks again Eosin.

Re: The Wheel of Time

I have finished a rough draft of the Dreamer Package. With the Wolfbrother Package opening up Tel'aran'rhiod, it seemed only natural to follow up with a true Dreamer. This package could be tacked on to any existing character to create a Dreamer, even a Wise One of the Aiel. It is an expensive package, especially as it has no Disadvantages associated with it.

EDIT: Added optional Enter Tel'aran'rhiod in the Flesh power.

As always, differing views and concepts are most welcome.

Dreamer Package

COST..SKILL

...3..Dream Mastery (Ego-based)

COST..TALENT

...4..Eidetic Memory (5 Active Points); Dreams Only (-1/4)

COST..POWER

..31..Dream Form:Duplication (creates 200-point form), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, Character must fall asleep in order to enter Wolf Dream; -1 1/4), Feedback (All Duplicates Take Damage When Struck; -1), Original character is Incapacitated and Helpless while Duplicate exists (-1), Both Duplicates die if they do not recombine within 24 hours (-1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) plus Entering Tel'aran'rhiod: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension, Any Location corresponding to current physical location) (22 Active Points); Linked (Dream Form; -1/2)

Dream Form Abilities [Notes: These are abilities that are bought by the Dreamer when in Tel'aran'rhiod. These abilites can only be used in Tel'aran'rhiod by the Duplicate form.]

..12..Dream Mastery:60 Point VPP [Notes: Each point in the Dream Mastery talent gives the character the equivelent of a 5 Point Variable Power Pool. The individual powers in the pool must be designed and a list of abilities kept by either the GM or the player. If the player wishes to invent a new power, they design the power, including all Power Modifiers. After that, the character may learn the power in 5 Active Point increments. Each increment takes 1 week to perfect. When the 5 point increments add up to the full Active Cost of the power, it is learned and the power can then be used normally from then on out The character must have a Dream Mastery skill as well. This Power is Based on a Talent. Inspiration for Dream Mastery comes from "The Gift" (page 265 of the Fantasy HERO sourcebook).]

..10..Long Stride:Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); all slots Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1)

..2m..1) Teleportation 5", x8 Noncombat (20 Active Points); Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4)

..2m..2) Teleportation 5", MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (20 Active Points); Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4)

...9..Locate by Need:Detect A Large Class Of Things 11- (Unusual Group), Increased Arc Of Perception (360 Degrees), Range, MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (40 Active Points); No Conscious Control (Only Effects cannot be controlled; -1), Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1), Concentration (0 DCV; -1/2), Lockout (-1/2), Linked (???; When the character "Detects" the object needed, they teleport towards the location of the object. May take multiple jumps to reach the iterm.; -1/2)

...7..Precognitive Dreams:Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group) (40 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Only in Tel'aran'rhiod (-1), Vague and Unclear (-1/2)

Optional Ability

...7..Entering Tel'aran'rhiod In the Flesh:Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension) (20 Active Points); Side Effects, Side Effect occurs automatically whenever Power is used (2d6 Transform Character loses a part of what makes them human. Short-term effects could be an animosity from other Dreamers or Wolves. Long-term, the character may become an NPC under the GM's control.; -1), Requires a Dream Mastery Skill Roll (Active Point penalty to Skill Roll is -1 per 5 Active Points; -1)

Powers Cost: 80

Total Character Cost: 87

Re: The Wheel of Time

Here are a couple of items. I'm trying to think of other ter'angreal to write-up. I considered the three ring testing ter'angreal in the White Tower, but that seems more of a plot item than anything.

I may write up the doors to the Aelfinn and Elfinn realms. Also seems more of a prop item, but what the heck.

I'll be adding items as inspiration strikes me. Enjoy.

Horn of Valere

Created in an Age before the Age of Legends, the Horn of Valere calls Heroes from all Ages to fight for the person who sounds the Horn. The exact number of Heroes varies. Time and the Wheel spin them out to re-live their lives, leaving the remainder bound to the Horn.

COST..POWER

......Horn of Valere: Summon 128 300-point Hero, Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Slavishly Devoted (+1) (237 Active Points); Independent (-2), OAF (The Horn is bound to the person who sounds it. To any other person, the Horn is nothing more than an instrument. Once the Hornsounder dies, then the horn can be bound to another sounder.; -1), Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), Only to Activate, Character May Take No Other Actions, -3/4), Gestures (-1/4)

Twisted Ring

Given to Egwene al'Vere by Verin Sedai, the twisted ring allows a person to enter Tel'aran'rhiod. It does not provide any special protection or abilities once the person gets to Tel'aran'rhiod

COST..POWER

......Dream Form: Duplication (creates 200-point form), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (80 Active Points); Independent (-2), Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, Character must fall asleep in order to enter Tel'aran'rhiod; -1 1/4), Feedback (All Duplicates Take Damage When Struck; -1), Original character is Incapacitated and Helpless while Duplicate exists (-1), Both Duplicates die if they do not recombine within 24 hours (-1/2), OIF (-1/2) plus Entering Tel'aran'rhiod: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension, Any Location corresponding to current physical location), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2) (33 Active Points); Independent (-2), Linked (Dream Form; -1/2), OIF (-1/2)

Re: The Wheel of Time - Wolf Brother semi-final post

Okay. I think this just about does it. Eosin's suggestions (thank you) were good ones and I incorporated what I thought would be appropriate to the package. I'm sure there are still some minor tweaks to be done, but you should be able to build from here to customize the character.

Enjoy

Wolfbrother Package

COST..POWERS

..10..Keen Nose: Tracking with Smell/Taste Group

...3..Wolf Ears: Ultrasonic Perception (Hearing Group)

...5..Wolf Sight: Nightvision

..16..Wolf Speech: Mind Link, Specific Group of Minds - Wolves, No LOS Needed, Number of Minds (x4), Megascale (1" = 1 km; +1/4), Invisible Power Effects (Fully Invisible; +1/2) (52 Active Points); Feedback STUN Only (-1), Concentration, Must Concentrate throughout use of Constant Power (1/2 DCV; -1/2), Normal Range (-1/4), Reduced By Range (-1/4), Does Not Provide Mental Awareness (-1/4)

..31..Wolf Dream Form: Duplication (creates 200-point form), Altered Duplicates (100%; +1) (80 Active Points); Extra Time (20 Minutes, Only to Activate, Character must fall asleep in order to enter Wolf Dream; -1 1/4), Feedback (All Duplicates Take Damage When Struck; -1), Original character is Incapacitated and Helpless while Duplicate exists (-1), Both Duplicates die if they do not recombine within 24 hours (-1/2), Costs Endurance (Only Costs END to Activate; -1/4) plus Entering the Wolf Dream: Extra-Dimensional Movement (Single Dimension, Any Location corresponding to current physical location) (22 Active Points); Linked (Wolf Dream Form; -1/2)

Dream Form Abilities

These abilites can only be used in the Wolf Dream by the Duplicate form.

..10..Long Stride: Multipower, 20-point reserve, (20 Active Points); all slots Only in Wolf Dream (-1)

..2m..Teleportation 5", x8 Noncombat (20 Active Points); Only in Wolf Dream (-1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4)

..2m..Teleportation 5", MegaScale (1" = 100 km; +3/4), Can Be Scaled Down 1" = 1km (+1/4) (20 Active Points); Only in Wolf Dream (-1), Must Pass Through Intervening Space (-1/4)

...7..Windows of Foresight: Precognitive Clairsentience (Sight Group) (40 Active Points); No Conscious Control (-2), Precognition/Retrocognition Only (-1), Only in Wolf Dream (-1), Vague and Unclear (-1/2)

Optional Abilities

..14..Berserk Fury Aid Strength 2d6 (20 Active Points); Only when Enraged (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2) plus Physical Damage Reduction, 25% (10 Active Points); STUN Only (-1/2), Only when Enraged (-1/2), Linked (Aid; -1/2)

...5..Feral Aura: +5 PRE (Modifiers affect Base Characteristic)

..10..Wolf Fighting Tactics: +2 with HTH Combat

COST..CHARACTER DISADVANTAGES

..10..Distinctive Features: Reflective Yellow Eyes (Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

..15..Distinctive Features: Feral aura (Not Concealable; Noticed and Recognizable; Detectable By Commonly-Used Senses)

..15..Enraged: When fighting Shadowspawn (Uncommon), go 11-, recover 11-

..10..Psychological Limitation: Fighting the Wolf. When using Wolf Speech, it is easy to lose one's sense of self to the pack mindset. Losing it for too long could mean becoming "Lost to the Wolf." (Common, Moderate)

..10..Social Limitation: Wolf Brothers are misunderstood by society in general. Aes Sedai try to study them, many people shun them, Whitecloaks consider them Shadowspawn. (Frequently, Major, Not Limiting In Some Cultures)

Re: The Wheel of Time

I would add a "No conscious control" to the precognition.

Good suggestion. I was torn between adding that or not. I kind of settled on the "vague and unclear" until I could test the waters here.

This is a really good work up. You might add a section on suggested purchases.

A. Increased Running

B. Stamina (+2 to CON checks or additional CON/END)

C. Beserk (FH talent)

D. Pack Fighting (Teamwork or CSL when fighting with Wolves)

E. DF: Yellowed Eyes

F. DF: Wilderness Man

G: Psysical Lim: Lost to the Wolf

I haven't gotten into the Disadvantages yet, but at the very least I was going to do at least the Yellow Eyes and I would call the other DF "Feral." Not so much as outward appearance, but more as a subliminal sense of presence. Lost to the Wolf implies that the character would all but be an NPC in my mind, but I could see it simulated in short term with either Berserk or a Psych Lim. Berserk seems more appropriate, having a "Go" and "Recover" roll, but it seemed to be a matter of Willpower to keep hold of humanity. Sounds like a Psych Lim to me. The Pack Fighting is a very cool idea. I seem to remember Perrin using an almost Wolf "style" of fighting when he took that Fade down in the beginning of Dragon Reborn. Hmmnn. The Stamina ability is hard to tell. Both Perrin and Elyas were fit and healthy men before the change into a Wolf Brother.

I am sure there are more but that is a list of things that some of the Wolf Brothers might posses (but not all of them so it shouldn't go in the package proper).

I could create a section entitled "Optional Abilities" and tack it to the end of the list. One of the things I'm concerned about is having too large a package. I am designing for a 200pt total game, and the package as it stands still takes up about half that. Keeping that in mind, another "Optional Ability" would be an increased PRE to reflect that Feral Aura I was talking about above.

Now a return favor - do you mind if I post this up on my website

Of course you may post and that is a blanket statement for anything I do post here. Now, keep in mind that, when I get enough solid material to create a website, I am going to have some sort of "official" version. I will even post the HERO Designer files at that point.

Re: The Wheel of Time

Well here is a little bit of a revision to the above. I added what I thought were reasonable powers to reflect the Wolf Dream. As Eosin suggested, I tried to stay within the bounds of Astral Form. I used the Alternative One with some minor modifications to fit the scale I am designing to (125/75).

I don't think that Perrin (the only Wolf Brother we have seen in the Dream) exhibited any powers beyond this. I am also going to use this as the base for a Dreamer package. Hypothetically, a Wolf Brother could learn more abilities, since many of them are not tied to the One Power.

Any feedback would be really appreciated. I will be posting additional material as I get it completed. I may have the Dreamer package up Real Soon Now .

EDIT: Refer to post below for complete package.

Re: The Wheel of Time

Ah. I think I have the Ultimate Mystic around here somewhere. I remember buying it and reading it. It was the one HERO sourcebook that I actually felt was somehow less than it could have been. I haven't seen it in a month or more. I will look and if the Astral Form write-up isn't in there, I have a mechanic in mind.

Thanks for the heads up.

P.S. Found it. Page 54 of the Ultimate Mystic. Hmmmn. As the basic mechanic for getting to T'A'R, that works perfectly. For the more advanced things like Precog and the even the Dreamer abilities, it would require a little more, but the basic Astral Form works well.

Now I just have to do the deed and finish the Wolfbrother package. Thanks again.

Re: The Wheel of Time

I was gonna comment on the dream aspect but see that you got to that outside of the package.

 

Might I suggest that you consider using the "Astral Form" spell. That kinda fixes everything in one fell swoop. You don't need to buy a ton of powers since those are all bundled into the "Astral Form" or in this case Tel'rhiod. Then you can tack on a fairly cheap precog power and be done with it.

Astral Form? Will have to look through my stuff. Is it one of the sidebar powers or from one of the Fantasy HERO grimoires?