Nolgroth

At the risk of taking this thread off-topic, I would like to congratulate you Yamo. You have been struggling with this whole magical system very hard and it could have been real easy to just shelve the HERO system and revert to D&D for your fantasy needs. It seems to me that you have a pretty good tenacity in giving new ideas a shot. Kudos to you. Now back to your regularly scheduled topic.....

Now your magic system seems to be one that fits your particular style. I think that you are on the right track. The fact that it is reasonably priced also helps. Strict control from the GM is a must and you seem to have incorporated a very specific limitation in the number of points the VPP can start out with. I like it.

Thanks. I've been looking around for something myself, but have had no luck to date.

Originally posted by Hermit

Mmm perhaps I'll have the universe threatened by a villain named Fuzion. Seems appropriate somehow

Boo! At least it isn't the Proprietor. I keep getting this flash of some universally powered ghetto/projects landlord whenever that name comes up.

I think you can get a general idea of the nature of fears and phobias, but it is going to be real hard to pull off replicating the sheer "gut" reaction to a phobia in a verbal/written setting. I think talking to your players about nightmares and dreams would be a better starting point. Depending on how "deep" your players express themselves, there is a lot of good fodder for thought in dreams. Don't forget your own!

You can get a story idea (or three) from more "clinical" ideas too. There are likely places online that describe dreams. I can do some research to see.

At the risk of pulling the topic from phobias and fears, there are many other places you can draw inspiration from. Obviously, there are movies, stories and even music. Art can be a big inspiration. I have a set of the Tarokka (fake Tarot) cards from the Ravenloft Forbidden Lore boxed set. Some of the pictures are quite evocative.

I feel the iminent threat of pulling this message into several sub-topics, so I'll quit for now.

What I have been wanting to do is consolidating all the ideas in those previous posts into one (lengthy) document and seeing how it looks. I know that I have changed my opinion, somewhat, on how Channeling should work.

I really need to look over the rules constructs, as written, and see if and how they could be improved in the 5th Edition.

Does anybody here know of a source, online or in print, that defines which of the Five powers are involved in particular Weaves?

I think Xandarr's post just about sums up the "meat" of the old thread. Glad somebody saved that stuff. Well done.

Some thoughts.....

Checkmate

I'm with Yamo on this one. I wouldn't use Martial Arts enough to really like carrying around an extra book just for the extra maneuvers and rules. Therefore, I would never have voted for UMA under any circumstances. On the other hand, I didn't vote for Star HERO, which I normally would have, because of the unification reasons Steve talked about in the request for our help. Unfortunately, the Origin awards are important and the fact that HERO games was snubbed is totally unacceptable to me. If for no other reason than that, I voted in a way that would send the message to the Academy (or whatever governing body it is) that the HERO system has a very loyal fanbase and we don't appreciate the oversight on their part.

Steve and Aroooo

Star HERO was absolutely fantastic! To me it is the definitive science fiction role-playing work. The chapters on planet and system building were amazing. Very well researched and written. I only hope that Fantasy HERO has as much impact as Star HERO did.

Mavnn,

I too wish that I had foresight enough to save those messages before the old message boards crashed. It sounds as if the 5th edition has changed some of the martial arts stuff, but at least it would have given NuSoardGraphite some prototypes to work from.

NuSoardGraphite,

It was my pleasure to post those messages. We had a really good thread going back then. Usually, I try to save the threads that get me interested. I lost a couple of them with a data crash, but this one I managed to back up to CD-ROM before the loss. I'm glad you appreciate it.

Just confirmed it.

Well folks, that's the extent of what I had saved. After the last message I had, there were probably between five to ten more posts (mostly from Nu Soard Graphite) concerning Blademastery as a martial art. I wish that I had saved them, but I never got around to saving the page again. Sorry NuSoard.

Now that the old stuff is there (and I've had a chance to read it again) I will probably have some revisions to my older ideas and maybe even some new ideas to boot. Hope you all enjoyed the little glimpse into the past.

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Here's yet another one. I really need to get a life.

 

To further differentiate between male and female channelers, I would base the male Channeling skill on Ego and the females' on Presence.

 

How would you simulate the ability to "tie off" a weave? Change the pool so the power has the Uncontrolled and Continuous Advantages? This is especially important when someone is Shielded for long periods of time.

 

I would define a Weave that has been tied off as so:

 

(Continuous, Uncontrolled, Reduced END; 0 END, Persistent) The power would still count towards the points in the Channeling pool and/or the maximum number of different Weaves (powers) the character can have active (usually INT/5)

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Okay, I've been pretty busy coming up with questions. Thanks for answering NuSoard Graphite. I do have another one (for now).

 

What about Ogier and Ogier abilities and restrictions?

 

Other than massive size and strength, Loial seemed to be a Singer (or more precisely Treesinger). The only time we actually got to "see" him perform this ability is when Rand, the thief-taker (be darned if I could remember his name) and Loial were in the alternate world where they met Selene (Lanfear). There, he sung a staff out of a tree.

 

There are numerous other references to Sung Wood. The inn that Moiraine, Lan, Perrin, and Loial stayed at had a Sung Wood bed. (They were chasing Rand. This was where Perrin freed Gaul and met Faile). Loial has made several references to Singers along the way.

 

So my question is; How do you define a Treesinger's abilities?

 

My answer is a Minor Transformation. Sung Wood can take many forms, apparently, and also may have properties that differentiate it from normal wood, but it is still basically just changing the shape of wood.

 

I see no problem with using Treesinging to create staves or axe handles. At best, I would give them 1 DEF higher than normal hard wood. It just doesn't strike me as something that can be abused if the GM is on his toes. There is only so much wood that a tree can give up and survive.

 

In EotW, Loial sang to the sapling created after the Green Man passed on. He indicated that it would remain pure even when the Blight overtook the rest of the area around it. To me this is a special effect, as it would not have any lasting mechanical effect in the game. It might prove to be one of those legendary acts that the next age refers to, but other than that I see no long-term effects to worry about.

 

The other ability is to Sense or Detect Sung Wood. Either Detect or Sense seems appropriate and I do not remember the dialogue enough to remember if Loial immediately knew his bed was Sung Wood or if he had to examine it. Given Mr. Jordan's tendency to make detection of abnormal abilities more like a Sense, that is the way I would define it.

 

Now, the dependance of stedding for the Ogier is a lot harder to define. If it is defined as anything more than a special effect, the point value from a Dependancy or Susceptability would be 0. Perhaps a low point Physical Limitation. Personally I would simply let all players running Ogier know that they had to return to the stedding after 'x' number of game months.

 

On to a cultural examination. Ogier are true to a given promise, even to the point of placing themselves in great physical danger. The Ogier of Illian left without completing their work, which leaves some doubt as to the absoluteness of that statement. Perhaps Loial, being young and not so pessimistic as an older Ogier, might have tried to live up to the reputation of stalwart loyalty. Maybe there is an escape clause somewhere, such as non-payment of fees, that allowed the Illian Ogier to remove themselves from the city.

 

Anyway, here are my rules interpretations.

 

Treesinging

2D6 Minor Transformation: Living Tree to Sung Wood item of any shape. [Cumulative (+1/2), Limited Class of Objects (+1/4), Concentrate 1/2 DVC (-1/4), Incantations 1/4), Extra Time: 1 minute (-1 1/2)]

Active Points: 17 Real Cost: 6

 

Sense Sung Wood

Detect (as Sense)

Active Points: 5 Real Cost: 5

 

I have not defined Loial's actions in the Blight, as it seemed more of a special effect than a truly useful power.

 

As a final note, as a GM I would add +1 DEF to whatever type of wood was being Sung. It is a minor enough bonus that it shouldn't have a great deal of effect.

 

As part of the Ogier culture, I would encourage or require the two Psychological Limitations below.

 

Protective of Trees. Will not intentionally harm a tree by any means unless there is grave need (Common, Strong)

 

Always Keeps Word. Will risk injury or death to keep his oath. Will only break oath if he is betrayed by the person he is sworn to. (Very Common, Total).

 

That about sums it up. I would really like to hear your thoughts on the matter. Sorry about the epic length posts recently.

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Great breakdown on the Disads of an Aes Sedai!

 

Here's some additional disads that are typical of women of specific Ajah...

 

Red: Psychological Disad: Hates men who channel (uncommon/strong)[10pts]

 

Blue: Psychological Disad: Curiosity (Common/Moderate) [10pts]

 

Green: Psychological Disad: Permiscuous (Common/moderate) [10pts]

 

Yellow: Psychological Disad: Cannot ignore wounded (uncommon/strong) [10pts]

 

Brown: Psychological Disad: Distracted (common/moderate) [10pts] note-this means that Brown's generaly are contemplating some acedemic puzzle and often miss things that are obvious to others. They should make perception rolls to notice things that would normaly be obvious...

 

White: Psychological Disad: Self Important (common/moderate) [10pts] note-this means that Whites normaly see themselves as having a higer purpose (studying the prophecies etc) than those of others.

 

Grey: Psychological Disad: Aloof (common/Moderate) [10pts] note-this disad means that the Grey will oftentimes not involve themselves in matters just to not be seen taking a side. This is only a Moderate level, so if it is something truely important, they will choose a side based on the information they posses.

 

Note, that these aren't set in stone, but merely the "stereotype" assosciated with each particular Ajah. Certain personality types generaly pick the Ajah that most suits them (Such as Nynaeve's decision to pick Yellow because of her background as a Wisdom) but by no means does this mean every member of a particular Ajah acts in the said manner (Elayne picked the Green, simply because she felt that it would be less unsusual because she planned to have multiple Warders, after bonding Birgitte)

 

For those who are interested, a great WOT site that I have found is located at:

 

http://64.128.72.85/~ewot/

 

Check it out. Its like a MASSIVE encyclopedia. Its a very well done site.

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

On a similar note, what other Disadvantages would you apply to Aes Sedai themselves? Some examples are:

 

-Distinctive Features: Ageless Appearance (Easily Concealable, Causes Major Reaction or Prejudice)

 

-Reputation 11- (Tar Valon Witch, Extreme)

 

(Whether they are respected or hated, they always seem to cause a great fuss).

 

-Watched by White Tower (11-, More Pow, NCI)

 

-Physical Limitations: Cannot Lie, Cannot use the One Power as a weapon except against Shadowspawn and in defense of herself, other Aes Sedai, or her Warder, and Cannot make weapons with the One Power.

 

(Since the Three Oaths cannot be disobeyed after the Aes Sedai swears upon the Oath Rod, I thought they should be Physical Limitations).

 

As an alternative to the Watched being 11-, you can simulate the progression of trust from Novice to Sister pretty easily. Novice 14-, Accepted 11-, and Aes Sedai 8-. As an interesting aside, a Sitter of the Hall, Keeper of the Chronicles and/or Amrylin Seat would probably be watched as closely as a Novice or Accepted. The downside to political influence.

 

Any thoughts on the matter?

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Nu Soard Graphite,

Well done. I was not thinking of the additional disadvantages that go along with being a Warder (Watched, Reputation, etc).

After re-reading Mind Link (which I should have done before the last post) I think that it is sufficient to do the job without the Sense. I would tack on a limitation for the Warder; Cannot Block Link.

 

Basically it would look like this

 

Aes Sedai

Mind Link with Warder (additional points for additional Warders). Any distance (+5). Only to sense general state of health, emotional state and general direction (-1/4).

Base Cost: 10+ After Modifiers: 8

 

Warder

Mind Link with Aes Sedai. Any Distance (+5). Only to sense general state of health, emotional state and general direction (-1/4), Warder cannot block link (-1/4).

Base Cost: 10 After Modifiers: 7

 

That is my take on the matter. I would still say that the Warder is Vulnerable to Aes Sedai Compulsion as well. Since mental attacks through the Mind Link are at 0 ECV (for the Warder), that may be enough to simulate that Vulnerability.

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Not too shabby Nolgroth. There's only a few things I would do differently.

 

First of all, Mind link cannot be used to track. (of course, if thats how you want to handle mind-link, then go right ahead) thats what Mind Scan is for....but Mind scan isn't quite right to simulate the Warders ability to find his Aes Sedai. I'd make that into a Detect Bonded/Sense/360^/no range penalty (22pts)

 

Link it to the Mindlink so that if the mindlink is suppressed or dispelled the detect turns off as well.

 

I agree about giving Warders extra Stun/End/Rec. (maybe 10pts of each for +10stun/+20End/+5Rec) this, however does not go away if the Bond is disturbed, but will go away if the bond is destroyed (i.e. Transformed off)

 

The Aes Sedia can purposfully attempt to suppress the Link (just Suppress the Mind Link and the tracking ability goes with it) so that her Warder cannot find her. (this is done in Winters Heart)

 

I agree that the Psychological and Vulnerability disadvantages can be used to justify/offset the cost of the new abilities.

 

I would also use Transform to simulate generating the mind link, however, I would use Ego rather than Body for determining when the bond sets in. Cumulative Transform is recommended. I would consider this a Minor transform, since this does not considerably change the target, merely augment it. The effect that will turn it off is the Death of the Aes Sedai that the target is bonded to.

 

Here's how it breaks down:

 

Aes Sedai gains:

 

Mind Link with Warder(s) [10pts]

When an Aes Sedai bonds with a new warder she has to pay an additional 5pts to cover additional minds (2 warders is +5pts. 4 warders for another +5 pts 8 warders for another +5pts etc)

 

Psychological disadvantage: Attatched to Warder (10pts)

 

Cost to Aes Sedai (0pts)

 

Warder Gains:

 

Mind Link w/Aes Sedai: 5pts.

 

+10Stun (10pts)

+20End (10pts)

+5Rec (10pts)

 

Sense Shadowspawn: Detect/Sense/360^ [15pts]

 

Sense Aes Sedai (Direction and distance) Detect/Sense/360^/No range mod: 22pts

 

72pts

 

Psychological Disad: Must protect Aes Sedai (total/Common) [25pts]

 

DNPC: Aes Sedai (as powerful/14-) [10pts]

 

Watched: By White Tower (More powerful/NCI/11-) [12pts]

 

Psychological Disad: Must obey Aes Sedai's orders (Very common/Strong) [20pts]

 

Reputation: 8- (Warders are known badasses, also they are known to travel with Aes Sedai. This is only 8- because if they are by themselves, they usualy are mistaken for normal warrior or mercenary) [5pts]

 

Total points 72.

 

Cost to Warder: 0pts!

 

Of course, this is up to interpretation by individual GM's as usual.

 

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Okay now that I have posted the question, here are my answers. Please feel free to bash them to bits, especially the rules aspects. If you have a better way, I would like to hear it.

 

For the first question, the bond would be simulated by a Mind Link bought as a defined group (Aes Sedai to Warder(s)). That way an Aes Sedai could have multiple warders. The books never specify if multiple warders feel each others conditions, location, etc through the bond.

 

I would tack on a couple of modifiers such as 0 End, Persistent, Always On, Only to determine location, general state of health, emotional state (-1/2) and Aes Sedai can block bond temporarily (+1/4)

 

In addition, I would make the Aes Sedai and Warder take either a Susceptability or Physical Limitation so that if one were killed, the other would take an immediate Ego attack through the bond.

 

Warders would also have a Psychological Limitation: Loses interest in living if Aes Sedai is killed, and a Vulnerability x2 effect from Aes Sedai Compulsion (mind control).

 

On to the next question. This is a pretty straighforward Major Transformation. The trick is to have enough power to complete the bond instantly. The problem with that is with the warder candidate's (presumably) high Body attribute. Would you allow willing candidates to use just their Body rating when determing the effects of the Transform?

 

Another way would be the "special effect" transformation. It just happens and the special effect is that the Aes Sedai channels a wee bit and voila' instant warder. Now what about unwilling recipients? I'm sure that Alanna should have had a bitch of a time bonding Rand. Even if he was surprised by the bond. Thoughts?

 

The warder abilities themselves would be easy. They would gain Sense Shadowspawn, 360'. A boost to End, Stun and Recovery. I don't think Regeneration would be appropriate to represent the accelerated healing. It just didn't seem that fast. Besides, with Healing it wouldn't be entirely necessary. Am I missing anything?

 

As far as where the points come from, this is entirely dependant on the individual GM. I would say that the points from the Disadadvantages would be used to offset the cost of the Bond to both parties. If any excess points were available, then they would be lost. If you wanted to be a rules stickler, then you might make the two parties save up the exp. Finally, you could just say that the Transformation power (bond) grants them the abilities and disadvantages at 0 cost. I personally don't like the last because it sets a bad precedent for future games.

 

As always, these are just ideas roaming in my head and I would like to hear yours. I have not playtested these ideas, so YMMV.

 

 

There was a couple of messages that were off-topic and dealing with kenjutsu maneuvers. The following message picked back up on the topic.

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

have a question/topic for this thread. How would you all do warders? More specifically, how would you

a) Do the effects of the warder bond.

Structure the bond to be an actual power.

c) Buy the warder abilities themselves.

 

Would you make either the Aes Sedai or the warder candidate pay for the new abilities with exp?

 

I have some ideas myself, but I want to hear your opinions. I'll post mine in another message.

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

Good idea Nolgroth. I was thinking the exact same thing myself.

 

Yeah, I would probably base Mat's martial abilities on Naginata-jutsu from the UMA. It would cover his weapon quite nicely. he also has quite a few skill levels and probably some extra DC with the weapon (to represent his memories)

 

Rand VS Lan? I dunno. Rand has more raw talent, but Lan is WAY more experienced. I would give Rand a higher Dex, but Lan would have more skill levels and probably more maneuvers. Rand is no slouch though, he did beat that Seanchan blademaster without using the source...so his skill has grown considerably.

 

I agree with the names of the maneuvers. Thats why I'm sure that Rober Jordan adopted Kenjutsu maneuvers to his world setting, because many Kenjutsu styles have equaly poetic names (I've seen manuevers named: Full moon cut or Moonlight cut, Flying Swallow slash, 4 ways cutting, Soaring Lark etc. These are actual Kenjutsu Kumitachi) and evidenced by "Sheathing the Sword" which is the WoT equivalent to Japanese Seppuku.

 

Even the names of the Kenjutsu styles are elegant. Shinkage Ryu (Heart Reflection style, or God Shadow style) Shinto Seishin Ryu (Tranquil Heart style) Niten Ichi Ryu (Two Hearts as One style). See what I mean?

 

Perhaps, some time I will design what I think is a good representation of the sword styles found in the Wheel of Time. Right now, I am concentrating on detailing various Kenjutsu styles so I can send it to Bruce to put in Digital Hero....when he finds time to update the webpage, that is...

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

On a different note, I would like to see a complete martial art based on the Blademaster maneuvers described in the books. I imagine some of the maneuvers would fall into the Powers category described by Nu Soard Graphite in another thread.

 

I only wish Robert Jordan was more explicit in his descriptions of the maneuvers. The poetic names of the maneuvers are quite cool though.

 

Similarly, there must be a martial art based upon Mat's ashandarei. Of course, naginata-jutsu could easily be substituted. I think the UMA has that art.

 

Perrin, I think, just has a whole lot of skill levels with the axe.

 

Off Topic: Do you think Rand or Lan is a better Blademaster (not counting Rand using the Source in the battle)?

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

CosmosEmeritus,

 

Perhaps, you are correct, but after thinking on the scene more, it was a straight Suppress vs VPP against Suppress vs VPP. Both were trying to cut the other off from the Source.

 

On a different note, I imagine the Channeling Clause that states "Thirteen dark brothers, thirteen dark sisters, and thirteen myrdraal can turn a channeler from the Light to the Shadow" is represented by a Major Transform. The modifier Requires a Circle of 13 Males,13 Females,and 13 Fades would be appropriate. The question I have is ; Would you require a PC channeler to become an NPC if he/she was changed to the Shadow?

Originally posted by CosmoEmeritus in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

If I may, the description Jordan gives to such conflicts, i.e. Nynaeve vs. Moghedien, seems more like that of a martial arts match. Perhaps this is more accurately prototyped with some kind of ECV vs. ECV combat? Mystic Masters has some examples of this kind of combat I believe.

 

Originally posted by Nu Soard Graphite in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

GhostNight:

 

Dispell works also, but you'd have to put continuous on it (making it cost 6pts per D6) so that they stay cut off from the source. Suppress already has continuous built in (as long as the End is paid) thats why I suggested Suppress...just put a small limitation on it, to make it all or nothing (either the suppress exceeds the control cost, and cuts them from the source, or it doesn't)

 

Corvus:

 

Thats exactly what I was trying to represent when I suggested the Control cost Vs Suppress "contest" of body.

The whole stilling thing? Have whoever is sheilding the person who escaped make a "Control" roll as defined in my post about drawing in too much of the one power. On a critical failure, roll the Stilling dice!

 

Nolgroth:

I agree about blocking an attempt at shielding. Configure some of the Power Pool to Power Defense.

Originally posted by Nolgroth in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread. In the original message, I quoted Corvus. Quote left out for brevity.

Sounds like you could simulate that with Find Weakness (as a power) vs. Shielding, with the Limitation Extra Time. If you make the Find Weakness roll, the person Shielding you only has half the points available. How else would you do it?

 

I imagine the battle between Nyneave and Moghedien would be Suppress (Shielding) versus Power Defense (blocking the Shield) with the Limitations Concentrate 1/2 DCV and Costs END. Any other ideas?

 

Originally posted by Corvus in the Cybergames Wheel of Time thread.

When Rand escaped his shielding in that chest (I forget which book), he was looking for what was described as "hardpoints", which represented the actual individuals holding the shield. When he crushed a couple of them escaping, he found that he'd stilled the Aes Sedai in question. When Nynaeve was roped into teaching the WindRunners (or whatever they're called), and the one girl had her shielded, she also found a hardpoint, but, not knowing what it was, she bypassed it. It sounds like there is some direct conflict to keeping someone shielded, they just haven't fully discovered it, yet, except for Rand. Also, how would you block the shielding attempt, a la Nynaeve and Moghedien in Tanchico?