Prototype

What does the phrase peak human actually mean? Well, in comics, it pretty much means anything!!! Captain America, Batman, Daredevil, etc. are all supposed to have amazing, yet still within human capabilities, abilities and skills. Rather than endlessly debating what exactly that is... why not look to the Champions Universe. Characters like the Hoarbinger of Justice or Andres Panthanatos have ungodly stats - SPD and Dex scores which would make most Champions speedsters balk. Yet they are merely human. Why is this? Well, it's because these statistics are not outwardly ridiculous. Humans can move fast, they can be acrobatic - we can believe these statistics even though they are well outside the accepted 'peak human' range of the game itself. We couldn't accept Str 60 as 'peak human' because the game rules dictate that you could then lift 100 tons, similarly we couldn't accept PD 20 as you would suffer no physical injury from a 40m+ fall. These things are more easily 'measured' in relation to the rest of the world, and so impinge more on our suspension of disbelief as to what a 'peak human' can do. However, I have no problem with the strongest ever human (25 Str, 30 Str, 35 Str if you like in your game) being able to lift several tons... if only for a few moments. I know it isn't actually possible, but I've never met the strongest ever human - has he even existed? Does even the biggest weightlifter hit actual human maximum strength? If so then why do people continue to beat records and set new ones? If human maximum was so easily achievable then surely records for sprinting, weightlifting, long-jumping, etc. would long ago have been set in stone? Is it too difficult to believe that these totally exceptional characters have reached levels of conditioning and training unseen even in professional sports? I recall an issue of Batman (think it was one of the Armageddon 2001 titles from ages back, or maybe one of the regular comics about that time) where an olympic athlete was trying to keep up with Batman on one of his nightly patrols... afterwards Batman was still going strong, but the olympic gymnast was exhausted from just swinging about the city all night. Point in case Batman was better conditioned and better at performing. Similarly, I'm sure in the DCU no olympic gold medallist/ultimate fighting champ/heavyweight boxer would stand up to Batman, Lady Shiva or the like in a fight. In the Marvel Universe the same would be true of Captain America. I'm mainly looking at Batman examples here as I'm far more familiar with his comics and how they relate to 'peak human' abilities. So, onto Cap. Comics confirm that he can, and has, hurt the Hulk, Rhino and many other Bricks. Not to any great degree, but he certainly has done it. In an extended battle his chances of successfully defeating the Hulk are virtually zero. To my knowledge he never has and I can't imagine he ever will, he just cannot do enough damage over a long period of time. The same is true for Abomination, but I'd say he could defeat She-Hulk, though it'd be a hard fight. Most other bricks below Hulk levels Cap could certainly defeat, and has done so on many occasions. Peak human strength, will to win, martial arts training and combat skills see him through. My write-up of Cap would have the following: Strength 30, ultimate human maximum in my opinion. Martial Arts with +2 DC (he's more 'skill' than raw damage) +4-6 CSL's spread between overall and h-t-h. +2d6 for his shield Find Weakness 14- with Shield Bearing in mind the Hulk probably has lack of weakness 8+ that's one of the main reasons Cap struggles against him. She-Hulk maybe only has a couple of points of it, if any, thus making her a far more viable opponent for Cap! Just my thoughts!

Although it acts like a missile (can be outrun, object can be interposed, etc.) it can't be stopped like one (maybe desolidification on the missile?) Also, it doesn't seem to have to do any damage to transport someone, the range seems unlimited and its speed is phenomenal. As for how many he has, using the Omega Force usually results in it taking a while to recharge!

So then, Darkseid in Champs... how powerful would you say the Omega Effect is, and how would you create it and the related abilities?

Huh? I kinda think you missed the point somewhere. Batman, Punisher & Wolverine knock-offs are what DC is all about. Those characters and those like them are whose comics Dark Champions is based on. DC isn't about low-powered superheroes, it's about dark heroes, who operate on a different scale. They don't save the world and defeat Mechanon - they stop muggings and give Card Shark the occasional beating. If you look at the comics, guys like Punisher, Wolverine & especially Batman get involved with regular superheroes all the time. Batman is in the JLA, Wolverine in the X-Men and Punisher killed the Marvel Universe for God's sake! They are 'underpowered' in the sense that they don't have the ability to fly at mach speeds, or bounce cannon fire off their chests or life a battleship - but they have similar points, spent in ways that make them just as effective, but generally on a smaller scale. Is there a member of the JLA who would like to take Batman on one-on-one? No, not one of them... most of them are scared of him. Same goes for Wolvy and the X-Men - how many of the X-men (mainly regular Champions characters with a few exceptions) would you say could hands down beat Wolverine if it came down to it? Few if any I'd say. Look at Punisher, how many times does he run up against Spidey and his ilk and manage to escape without a thrashing and a quick trip to Ryker's Island? In my opinion nothing would be worse than a Dark Champions campaign where the characters are just 'weak' regular supers. Certain powers and abilities are acceptable in the campaign setting whilst others are just totally wrong. You can see this in the fact that some more 'colourful' heroes easily fit in to the Dark Champs setting, whilst on the other hand, some just don't! Spider-man - When he's not saving the world a lot of the time he could be a DC hero. The 2099 incarnation is almost certainly suitable for DC. Despite this Spidey is considered a more typical Champions hero. He can be hurt by the weapons and tech of the setting and his powers are mainly extensions of natural abilities and things that can be recreated using gadgets (for web-shooters) Daredevil - Has often been portrayed in comics as dark and dirty, he often straddles the like between DC and Champs, although in recent times far more DC! All his powers are pretty much enhanced normal abilities, radar-sense is a fairly minor power to allow. Captain America - Probably not even as powerful as Spidey (don't start!) but totally unsuitable for DC. If you made his costume darker and changed his name then immediately you have a DC character, but as is he is just too four-colour! He'd mess up the tone of the campaign even without breaking any points caps. And so on... Then there are the heroes that these guys hang with who just shouldn't be involved in DC - Silver Surfer, Superman, Green Lantern, etc.

Hi there. Just wanted to ask a quick question. In the main book, it says that if I pick up a DEF 5, Body 5 object and hit someone with it the maximum damage it can do is 10d6. So what I was wondering, is this 10d6 flat, or is it 10d6 on top of my Str??? If it's the former it seems broken, as if I'm Str 60 I'd be better off just punching the guy as opposed to hitting him with a telegraph pole which seems incongruous with the comics, etc. that the rules are based upon. I think the latter makes more sense where, I could do up to 10d6 more but limited to double my Str damage or something like that similar to the way Str adds to a HKA. So my Str 60 character could hit someone for up to 22d6 with this object (albeit breaking it in the process!) Seeing as most clubs, etc. are bought as extra HA, rather than a Baseball Bat having DEF 3, Body 3 so the maximum you can do with it is 6d6, limited by Str!!! Thanks in advance!

A few things here... this is my first post, so hi! Anyway, characters in Dark Champions don't have to be any weaker than their four-colour counterparts, but how they spend those points has to be different. So none of the 'Dark' heroes are going to have masses of flight, FTL movement, megascale mental powers or the like. But built on the same points they can hold their own. In my recent DC campaign the heroes were built on 200 base with 300 disadvantages, I'm sure most of them could have held their own against most CU supers but none of them felt out of place in a DC campaign up against (slightly revised) versions of Predator, Card Shark, etc. Some sample characters... Jack Hudson - The living embodiment of Hudson City, the Cabal tried to summon and bind the spirit of the city for their own ends, but it went awry and so Jack showed up nearby. He's basically just a really tough, really strong basass. Whilst in Hudson City he's amazingly tough, fast and strong... outside of the city he's not much better than your average man. But with Str 30 (extended push though, plus double KB), Dex 24, Spd 5, Damage Reduction 50% resistant, plenty of levels, some minor regeneration, martial arts (dirty infighting - it's a dirty town!) with DCs and a bunch of city/tough guy related powers he could hold his own against most supers. The Doctor - A wealthy philanthropist who dedicates himself to helping the less fortunate he has an armoured body suit and a wide range of gadgets, skills and equipment. Not to mention vehicles and the like. Fairly Batman like and kinda omnicompetent. He also has a team of experts that work with him and give him tactical advice/monitor police bands/etc. for him. Hippocratic oath and all that sort of thing... fits in well in DC and has enough gadgets, training, skills and options at his disposal to take down your average CU guy (nerve gas, spray foam, liquid nitrogen, flash pellets, etc.) Seeing as the thread is about the Harbinger... we actually totally loved having him around as he was so much more extreme than the heroes, thus making him their enemy. However, given that HoJ is fundamentally 'good' he didn't want to hurt them. The Doctor in particular hated him after one particular event... The heroes went to a mansion that Card Sharks men were ransacking, unaware it contained a lab that manufactured drugs. The inhabitants of the house had fled to the back of the vast garden were they met up with the Doctor. As he was reassuring them they'd be okay and that his friends would take care of Card Shark's goons the HoJ leapt over the wall and blasted the group with full auto from an assault rifle. He then runs off toward the house... The Doctor, sworn to protect all life, is outraged... but rather than go after the Harbinger he sets himself the task of attending to the wounded (and mainly dying) men in front of him. Meanwhile the HoJ tries to literally bring the house down and finds himself involved in a fight with Jack Hudson and his two mates... they manage to hurl his explosives away before they go off and then they get involved in a running battle with him down the lawn. So there's the Doctor... out of the six critically wounded men he's managed to save five.. he's cursing himself for losing one and resting up just as the HoJ comes running past again and pops some bullets into each of his patients - killing most of them outright! At this the doctor loses it and flies for the Harbinger, who manages to hold him and his team-mates to a standstill until the police arrived breaking things up! Needless to say the Doctor decided he wanted to find the damn Blue Moon Killer after that!