Alibear

I do think that, in order for 'forgetting' magic to be plausible, you'll need longer time-frames between low and high magic tides.  Think of it in generations (with roughly 20-25 years per generation).  If your grandparents could wield magic, then you're likely to believe in it, even if you can't do it yourself.  I think you'd need at least 2-3 generations without magic (so, your grandparents or great-grandparents could do a few tricks but not much else) for skepticism to become the norm.  So, I'd make each phase roughly 2-3 generations long.  So, 2 generations of no magic followed by 3 of waxing magic then 2 of full magic and finally 3 of waning magic.  That's 10 generations or a cycle of roughly 200-250 years.

 

 

We're not just talking forgetting that magic exists, you have to believe it exists then actively pursue it. Do you believe Santa Claus exists? Probably not. Old people lie to young people about magic all the time. Tooth fairy? Cross your fingers and hope to die? God? Fairies at the bottom of the garden? Ghosts? Tarot? Sixth sense? It's all horeshit if you can't see it or do it yourself.

edit: and if you do have faith it only affects 1 in a thousand anyway. Most that do have faith are proved wrong anyway.

Okay, well I thought you were going with the idea that magic ebbs and flows and has times of High Magic and times of No Magic. During times of High Magic, the wizards would have figured that relationship out, and it is hard to imagine that such knowledge would disappear once discovered, given the role it would naturally play in keeping dynasties in power throughout the ebb times.

Imagine we have a city of 50, 000 people, only a handful are what we call wizards and most are busy with their normal lives, practacing spells, blowing shit up, designing magical weapons, spells and potions. How many do think have nothing better to do than try and figure out the link between magical winters and gold? How many have nothing better do but spend their time in the local Inn chasing the buxum and flaxen-haired Olga? How many are star gazing? How many are Alchemists? How many are runesmiths? Elementalists? Blood mages? Yada yada yada. We're talking pretty obscure magical theology here.

Maybe some do figure it out, write it down, tells all his mates and everyone has a glass of wine to celebrate. but they're poor can't do anything about it and 10 years later they are all dead and nobody has a clue.

edit: and don't forget if you are a wizard in The Time of Heroes the magical winter happened 30 years ago or more, way before you were born, why would you even question it?

I take your point, and do realise that people would, and do, hoard gold anyway. Which makes them powerful whether they have access to magic or not. Maybe they don't notice the correlation?

As much as I see what you are saying I want the Players to make the leap not some scabby-headed, lice-ridden scholar who gets his work published. Maybe scores of people have made 'the leap' but it isn't believed/common knowledge, maybe they died before the word got out, maybe they didn't see the importance, were drunks, whatever.

Don't forget only a very few people on this world can use magic; most scholars and scientists are interested in the mundane, that's what they can affect after all. Magic is fantasy, bedtime stories, a good book, what goes on in the big cities, not for normal folk to mess with.

Is this basically a sack?

I have decided that Armour which takes the 'real' disadvantage will only work half as well against firearms. I think this is a good way to faze it out.

I don't want to make bullets AP, mostly cos they're not and that would have issues with cover and such like.

The use of gold is a great idea - giving it a value beyond the usual economic.  :-)  It also allows you to have areas of high magic even in the depths of the magical winter, though the practitioners would need to think about husbanding their resources for future need (and in the case of dragons, future survival).  :-)

 

I like that there is a potential, as magic runs down for magical creatures to be seeking arks where they might sit out the winter, dragon hoards being an obvious one.  You might also get unlikely alliances as groups come together to create their own bunkers against the drought.  You might get cuckoos looking to infiltrate and then kick others out.  You will get ants and grasshoppers.  :-)

 

You will also have treasure seekers, knowing that magical defences will be low towards the end of the winter.

 

 

Doc

 

 

And it explains why all the dwarfish gold miners are dead

The ones who don't have the shiny hoarder gene have short brutish lives but the ones who hoard gold get to be immortal, fly, breath fire, teh good stuff... basically anything it can learn in the Time of Heroes it can carry over in the Magical winter if it has enough gold. I like it.

That's a good point; maybe nobody but the dragons put 2 and 2 together yet? Maybe the dragons don't even know they're just genetically driven to collect shiny and the side effect is the 'magical battery'. Food for though anyway.

I think I'll shorten the comet's flightpath, but not too short, maybe make it double as long as Haley's as Nolgorth mentioned. 

And I'll take his suggestion of having a time of extremely high magic and a time of extremely low magic with a middle point in between. So the world will have a lull then slowly build up to a crescendo of high magic, the Time of Heroes, when magic is all powerful, great deeds are done then slowly it fades away. So we can 50 years of no magic, with 25 years of little magic at either end but 50 years of higher magic with a 10 or 20 year window of extremely high magic.

I want to have some people live lives where there is just no magic to be seen, I want them to question if it even exists. I want sensible people to scoff and jeer, but then when it returns, eat humble pie and look like fools. 

I also really like the idea of rulers hoarding large troves of gold to power their magic.

Light just went on in my head as I type this. Just realised that Dragons don't covet gold 'cos its pretty, or even 'cos it's bait for tasty adventurers, which I always really thought... it keeps them alive! If they don't amass enough gold in the time of high magic they won't live through the nasty hibernation of the low magic times. 

So now there is the question of what strategic decisions mattered when 10 in every million were good enough to be battle mages that no longer count when the biggest bang you can muster is a 12 pound cannon.  :-)

 

What natural resources suddenly become valuable and cause Klondike type migration and castles suddenly come into vogue as real defences.

 

The loss of top tier predators like gryphons and dragons open things up in the ecological spheres and the loss of undead probably lead to the question of whether the Gods are actually relevant any more...

 

Things like that??

 

Doc

Indeed, exactly like this.

A couple of points:

In my world gold is a particularly precious metals 'cos it keeps the memory of magic best. So a magical seal to keep back a demon would probably be a real door with a gold inlay to hold the spell which repels the monster. A greedy thief would have to weigh up the risk off tampering with the ancient magic against his lust for wealth . My Players know this to be fact already. Maybe those gold items still have echoes of magic in them?

2nd point - I already have a great plains area called the Sea of Grass (think American plains) which is home to a hundreds of tribes of orcs and goblins. Maybe we can discover lots of gold there. If the magic is gone but only the humans have the guns then we have a power vacuum that we can exploit for our campaign. Basically the US wars against the Native Americans.  Maybe the greenskins still follow the old ways?

Thinking out loud now: Maybe we can have places (where the gold is) where magic is still relatively strong. Shamans can still cast spirit magic and the like. Maybe even magic items still work if they've been in contact with enough gold? 

Dances with Wolves, Last of the Mohicans, Lonesome Dove, Tombstone etc can all be mined for camapign ideas.

Um, it ain't fantasy without magic. It's just "period roleplay" at that point.

I might reintroduce magic at the end of the campaign. I might not, but we'll be playing in our fantasy world but I take your point. Fantasical Western Hero perhaps?

It always comes and goes in the history of my campaign world, normally we play at the time when the magic is in effect... but the players know that it is cyclical.

In my mind a comet, like in Game of Thrones, comes every few hundred years and that brings the magic with it. As it retreats so does the magic. Predictable, if you have the right skills, and regular.

Also, magic is not so common, never has been so common that you wouldn't need to be able to dry you own socks.

For our games 1 in a 1000 can do a little magic, light a candle, turn a page in a book, see a day into the future.

Of those 1 in a hundred can do big magic, enough to start a career as a wizard, do battle as a warlock, knock down a wall.

Of those 1 in a thousand has earth shattering abilities, cause an earthquake, bend a dragon to his will, take on an army on his own.

Why invent gunpowder? What if you can't use magic and don't have a magical bow and don't shot lightning out your arse?

You never mentioned blocking by moving away, you mentioned blocking by toughing it out. Moving goalposts much?

GM permission time - If I was GMing I'd rule that if you had NCM, (ie you are a real person) I would not allow you to block an energy attack, unless you had something to block it with. Either a shield /table or similar or another energy attack if the SFX were compatible. 

I see no reason at all for a person who is able to block not to be able to buy skill levels in it, as per your original post. That seems perfectly reasonable.

I was just thinking about those Japanese soldiers in their bunkers when the American flamethrower dudes arrived.

"Don't worry, lads, we'll be fine if we just brace for impact."

Tarly's Dad, to his brother when facing a Dragon in GoT.

"Don't worry, lad, we can just brace for impact."

I can see The Hulk or Superman doing that but a 'normal' hero or person who isn't more or less indestructable to start with? 

GM permission is a glorious thing.

And you think that I could block a lightning strike by gritting my teeth? Did you see those spate of acid attacks in England this year? Perhaps they should have just braced for impact?

GM permission indeed

We see Magicians using attacks to block their opponents attacks in fiction. I would allow an energy blast to block another energy blast. Is this the power skill in action?

Check out Egg v lo Pan at about 1 min 20.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=big+trouble+little+china+egg+shen+v+lopan&&view=detail&mid=9F9C1B0D984B0EBFF0D69F9C1B0D984B0EBFF0D6&FORM=VRDGAR

But to be able to block it without another attack seems strange to me; if you want magical resistance you could by a force wall and attach a skill roll to it or the like.

I sometimes get the feeling that Fantasy gaming is outside technological advances, we pick a period in history and play 'then' and never advance. Do you ever get that feeling? We have these old races with similar or even superior tech to our own from thousands of years ago but in the Real WorldTM ​​tech levels march forward with times forward rush. New stuff gets invented all the time.

Technology never advances so for the next campaign I'm working on I'm going to use my Fantasy World I've been playing in for the last 15 years and wind the clock forward a few hundred years and see what that looks like?

I'm going to keep the geographical map of the place I GM and change it all around politically. I'm going to pick a new period in time and play then. I was thinking of adding gunpowder and taking away magic. Either the Napoleonic Wars era with muskets and cannons or move it further forward still and play a kind of Western Hero with a fantasy history.

I'll take away fantasy races but perhaps leave a hint to them in some people. You can't play an elf but you can be strikingly beautiful and have lightsleep. You can't be a dwarf but you can take a high con and have an affinity with metal and stone working.

Monsters, which are obviously powered by magic, like dragons will be gone but perhaps we can see an echo of them in large venomous lizards.. a bit like a crocodile with a venom glands maybe.

We won't see magic at all but some people may believe it still exists, you just can't prove it or see it, you need faith. Some might think it never existed at all.

Something to keep me thinking anywho.

Another thing you might consider is, if disarmed the foe is likely to go all out defensive & dodge. Then try and use the weapon length rules to his advantage. ie get inside his opponents weapon reach and grapple and or draw a shorter blade to 'get in close'. No way I'd go down without a fight even if I was at a disadvantage. 

If they're in civilisation I expect them to act civilised and leave battle weapons and armour at home. A sidearm is acceptable normally.

if they're on the border of settled lands, in bandit country, or out in the back of beyond with no lawmen to look after them then I expect they dress appropriately.

His intro tune can be 'Bad to the Bone or maybe Steppenwolf.

So if Werewolves are real so are Vamps too? Is he hunted by a van Helsing type? Can he summon normal dogs/wolves to do his bidding? Is he a cute and cuddly werewolf like Michael J. Fox or is he a more yer devour young kids making out in cars type?

Are you looking for an event/incident which has changed the timeline, and has to be corrected? Or a meddling entity who has to be opposed? Or something else?

I dunno what I'm looking for to be honest...and I don't even know if I want the game to have some kind of climax where they can restore the game to a 4 colour setting. I suppose at some point the players have to work out that time has changed but maybe they won't be able to do anything about it... might re-read Wings of the Valkryie for ideas.

I will recast some characters that the players who are still here know though, Haerandir.

I think I just want an excuse to rehash old plot-lines for new players

Growth Brick called Rocky?

Demi brick with Boxing &  stoney skin? "Adrian!"

Do you have a name for the beast form... I like The Brute, once you have the name maybe the rest will have something to work with?

So... bear with me this might sound dumb but here goes.

I have recently had a chance to play (DnD Tiamat cmapaign) instead of GM and it seems to have cleared what was left of my mind. I've been thinking back and forth what to Gm when my rotation kicks back in and by Jove I think I've got it.

The pitch.

I want to restart my Champs campaign from the beginning as I have new players we all start from scratch.

I want to reuse some cool ideas from the Champions campaign world and my own creations... for 3 players it'll be fresh and new. For two it'll be downright weird.

I want to use that as the basis for a temporal readjustment campaign starring Captain Chronos.

So I need to make it different from last time so have decided to tone down the 4 colour stuff and ramp up the realism (ahem supers game dude)

So out go blasters and hover tanks (unless you pay points for 'em that is) and in come real world weapons and Humvees.

I can still have viper n such, they'll just be toting Ak47s n RPGs (ouch) 

I'm assuming that everything which doesn't have the real weapon limitation is paid for by points.

So what can stay in a semi realistic world and what is 4 colour and is out?

I want Ankylosaur to mail himself his armour.

I want Firewing to challenge all comers.

I want to have the Players who have experienced all this before to feel really weird.

I think I need early on to establish that there is something going on and it's not 'just' lazy GMing. I think I need a PC to attend a seminar on temporal flux or some-such so the get the idea.

Any ideas or thoughts?

Al

Re: Why Your Heroes Shouldn't Kill

Apart from the fact that the robot dude is now a murderer... what could go wrong?