Rebar

Re: Multiform I don't think you meant to say this. Or you didn't think it through. You're saying that the rules could change without the rules saying so? I know my characters are telephathic - but I'm not! I stated pretty early that I don't want to just rule by GM fiat. I want to understand how it's intended to work. And that that intended way does actually work.

Re: Would you allow this advantage? Well, he's only varying between 5/15, 10/10 and 15/5, so it's not scary. I'm more concerned about opening this can of worms and not being able to keep the lid on it.

Re: Multiform Well then he, like me, was around during the early rules editions, and knows why I built it the way it's always been built, until told otherwise.

Re: Multiform Thank you for the link Hyper-man. That clears up the ambiguity. If ghost-angel had done so, he wouldn't have gotten the frosty from me for being patronizing...

Re: LoS versus Continuous Sorry 'bout that. I thought I'd been diligent enough to spell it out at least once in the first post. Line of Sight adv.: +1/2.

Re: Would you allow this advantage? OK. Since it's in 6E I'll allow it. Though I'm really not comfortable with it, There are already ways of making defenses adaptable like this. This opens a can of worms.

Re: Multiform If you're going to be patronizing, you'd better make sure you're right. The rules say the cost of MF is "1CP for every 5 points in the most expensive form." If "the most expensive form" is the true form, then that'll be what the cost is based on. It does not say anything about that "only alternate forms". I'll grant that there may be room for ambiguity there, but I think the ambiguity falls in my favour: literally "most expensive form" includes all forms, unless noted otherwise. Please quote the book on this. I did.

Re: Would you allow this advantage?

Re: Multiform

My player has built this: 20 EC - base 20 1] 20 10/10 Forcefield - 0End +1/2, Adaptable (can change to 15PD/5ED, or 5PD/15ED with a 1/2 phase action +1/2)2] ... Would you allow this? Is there a legal way to buy it without blowing a bunch of his points?

Re: Multiform Oh argh. I am such a dummy. I can't have the bear form pay only 4CP for multiform to buy the 20pt human form. MF must pay for the most expensive form, regardless of who is paying it.

Re: Multiform I think this is the way to do it. The rules seems to indicate that True From has some conceptual meaning. At the very least, it's the one that you default to. Seems to me should I just ignore it. Make the bear pay for the MF. Unless I go with OHID. 'course, only problem with OHID is that I'd STILL end up writing up two clean character sheets for the player to follow so she does not get confused.

Re: Multiform Agreed. Except that the critical difference between OHID and Multiform is when the two forms are so radically different that they would be better written as separate, balanced characters.

Re: Multiform Not the same thing. Conception aside, the player would still pay for or not pay for that extra 5D6. The analogy to my MF here would be spending 100CP on an EB, then listing it (and using it) as only a 15D6EB, and simply discarding those 25 points.

Re: Multiform Sigh. Why would you use the same term twice? OK, I'll have to take some time later to decipher what you're trying to say...

Re: Multiform Everything is not there. I have identified one thing that is not. There is no guidance about how many points the larger character can grow by. It is simply GM fiat - an arbitrary house rule, after-the-fact to limit it to 1-in-6.

Re: Multiform Yep. Essentially reverting to the older rules. *I think you mistyped. I think you meant alternate here. Actually, reading on, I don't know what you meant. How about just use the terms 'True form' and 'Alternate Form'? Then there's no ambiguity.

Re: Multiform Not in the original form, when he was first created. He was just another brick. If you were in a 350pt game and wanted to build a Hulk, you would have no reason to build a Bruce Banner on less than 350pts. Fine, that still means that multiform, as written, has a hole in it, since it doesn't define this aspect of how it's supposed to be used (nor does it even make suggestions 'at GM's discretion'). So, at your discretion, how would you control it? Human form only gets 1pt into MF per 6 pts gained? That's essentially the same thing as saying 'all forms can only spend up to XP total'.

Re: Multiform Really? You'd say that, conceptually, Bruce Banner is as powerful a character as The Hulk? So you suggest I just ignore the whole "True form versus alternate Form" thing. Build the bear as the main form, with the human form as the MF. Yep. This is what I was thinking too. It's basically a reversion to the old rules. i.e. the new rules have a hole in them.

Re: Multiform

Re: Multiform OK, I'll throw it to you. Here's the concept: Human form: regular young girl, some science skills and about 30pts in disads. Bear form: 200pt supertype. Can speak and understand but does not share skills with human. The SFX of the change is a "swap". Girl goes into limbo, replaced by bear. There is some memory cross-over (can see through each other's eyes but cannot act). There are some limits on changing, notably, personality loss, difficulty changing back after 1-6 hours. How would you build it, just roughly?

Re: Multiform

Re: Multiform And what's to stop the human from dropping all 25XP into MF? Now the bear form is 200+(5*25) = 325. It still comes down to either: - alternate forms cannot grow more than 5pts per 6XP earned by true form (i.e. each time true form get to put 1XP into Multiform) or - alternate forms cannot grow faster than XP gained

Re: Multiform

Re: Multiform That does not seem to be the intent of the rule. I would have thought they'd state it explicitly. Not necessarily. There's nothing in the rules that says this must be true. In fact, there are limits to simulate this NOT being true.