CTaylor

Re: Rules to ignore, or replace Then by your logic every single attack deflected by missile deflection should cost the same, because they're all just different special effects. I like the different levels, they allow missile deflection to easier fit different genres. Sure, you can bat aside thrown spears but what about a bullet?

Re: Rules to ignore, or replace You're right I was using the unrevised rules which were not very clear on the senses and got the impression that sight changed your shape (what you look like) and touch changed what you feel like (your texture). In any case, the cost is far too high for what you get.

Re: New Mechanic: Grant/Bestow How far off isn't really an issue. My point was simply what I clearly stated twice: that to get UOO to be functionally equivalent to Aid, it costs more. This being evidence that giving people new powers is more expensive and powerful than giving them preexisting powers. In a way he agreed when he said he'd arbitrarily limit the variable effect advantage at the +2 level.

Re: Rules to ignore, or replace Actually you'd not change shape at all, you'd change texture. If someone touched you, you would feel like a giraffe or a tree or a bunch of goo, but still look like you did to begin with. And it would cost a lot to do so. So yeah, vs touch only changes what people can sense with touch and no other senses. Sight changes what people can see, but you'd still feel, taste, smell, sound the same. The power is just poorly designed.

Re: New Mechanic: Grant/Bestow Persistent means the character can leave your UBO area without losing the power. Not according to the rules. Persistent merely means you can leave the line of sight, you still have to buy up the range. Aid is no range, but you can be a billion miles away and still maintain the Aid, which means its range is effectively infinity when compared to UOO. Now, if you want to make the UOO go away in 2 turns, feel free, lets treat it as a 1 turn reusable charge. That's a 3/4 limitation to the 19 active cost (notice, the active cost is unchanged in either case): still 11 points. And your range is still limited. Sorry, costs more, no matter how you slice it.

Re: Spell Active/ Real Cost in Average Games I've used a power pool based magic system for a while so the active cost limit is based completely on what people can manage to afford. I'm in the process of changing to a different system and the point limit is based on what mages can afford in terms of magic skill roll - since every spell require a roll. The average mage ends up around 30-40 active points in power, I've not seen anyone go higher than that yet, although that's pretty powerful.

Re: New Mechanic: Grant/Bestow First off, thanks for the correction, you're correct - you don't have to maintain contact without buying range... you just can't let them past a certain radius of you. OK let me explain a bit more carefully. If I want to Aid someone to have +3" of running, I have to buy a 10 point power, Aid, and it gives them the power to run that much faster if I roll a 6 on the die. It doesn't matter where they go, if I'm asleep or dead, it doesn't matter if I can see them. I can give this power to as many people as I can line up and use it on. They can teleport to another planet and the power remains. If I want someone to move 3" faster with UOO, I buy Running 3" with a +1/4 advantage (8 points). Here's where the problems start. First, I can't use this power on anyone else, it has to be on them, and them alone. I can't lose sight of them, because then the power simply shuts off. I have to stay conscious (and alive) or the power goes away instantly. In a game system where the rules only allow you to maintain x number of constant powers at once (not uncommon for fantasy hero) or if you're using a power framework, you can't move the points out - can't change the points to another power. They have to stay within a certain range, or the power shuts off entirely. So to get it to work like Aid, I have to buy +1/4 more to have it affect more than one person at a time, +1/4 for each time I double the number that can be affected, +1/2 to use it out of line of sight. If I want to be able to go to sleep or have the power stay up when I'm stunned or KO'd, I have to buy +1/2 persistent on it again. To increase the range, I have to buy increased range over and over at +1/4 each. That's a minimum of +1 1/2 to just be able to give the power to 2 targets, at up to ACx5" range. Your 3" of running just became a 16 point power... and to make it really like Aid, you'd need at least 4 or more people, and at least 1 doubling of range to be sure. That bumps it up to 19 points or more. I hope you understand what I'm talking about now. Aid is cheaper than UOO for similar effect and power. Giving someone a new power is generally more expensive than increasing one they already have. Sorry I shouldn't have done it lazy, I was trying to save time and figured you were more familiar with how Usable on Others worked.

Re: Rules to ignore, or replace Except it doesn't. In the present rules, sight controls your shape, touch controls your texture. It's really not very well built, and far too costly for what it achieves.

Re: Rules to ignore, or replace Don't forget Cellular, imitation and instant change. The cost goes over 70 with everything.

Re: New Advantage: Area Effect Group That's kind of why I had it structured like I did: the more precise and useful the group it would hit, the more valuable an advantage it becomes.

Re: New Mechanic: Grant/Bestow But it doesn't. UBO is only a +1/4 Advantage. To grant someone 20 points of power with UBO costs 25 points. To grant someone 20 points of power with Aid would cost about 60 points (or 31 points and two actions), or twice that if it's a defensive power. You're correct, the base level of Usable by Others is only +1/4, that's why I stated "when you get it to remotely similar utility." The +1/4 advantage requires constant contact and line of sight. To remove those limitations, you need +3/4 additional advantage. To make the range reasonable, it's another +1/2 or more. To make you able to no longer need to maintain the power personally (go to sleep, etc) you need +1/2 more. See what I mean about cost, now? As to the rest: as I said, your decision in your campaign.

Re: New Advantage: Area Effect Group Selective and non Selective are incredibly imprecise, requiring repeated multiple attack rolls. This streamlines it, without the rolls, for a greater cost.

Re: Rules to ignore, or replace I agree with the concerns about shapeshift, I don't much care for the present design. It seems to me that touch would control shape and texture, while sight would control color and pattern, and I'm not very happy with the cost for utility in any case. Looking exactly like a settee or a giraffe isn't worth 50 points to me. So I agree with Kenn: too much for what it does and for what people would expect. I prefer the number/complexity of changes design over senses, Mr Long did carry that concept a bit too far with Shapeshift. Regarding stun: what happens when you're hit by surprise is not so much increased impact but - if it hurts, it's more likely to stun you. So half CON makes that more likely, but if you're really tough it doesn't matter. Think of it: if you're in a tank and someone hits the tank by surprise with a baseball bat.... you don't notice, except to jump in surprise. The stun isn't doubled, the pain of surprise is increased.

Re: New Mechanic: Grant/Bestow +2d6 EB costs exactly the same as buying 2dd of Flash you never had before. Correct, that's why I picked both because they are exactly the same cost but illustrate how new powers and the flexibility that this gives is more powerful than merely gaining points in what you already had. The VPP costs more because you can change which powers you have, so you can pick +2d56 EB when that is beneficial, or have a 2d6 Flash when this is preferable. The Aid/Bestow grants no such flexibility. If you want to have that flexibility, you pay for an advantage on your Aid. Correct, flexibility gained by new powers is so powerful that Hero considers it more potent than merely enhancing a power you already have. That's why UBO costs more than Aid when you get it to remotely similar utility. Yes, but new stragegies often = bad strategies. Irrelevant, people can poorly use the powers they already have, or wisely use weaker powers. How someone implements the abilities they have is divorced from the utility of the power in its self. s spending 5 xp to increase an existing power less powerful than spending 5 xp on a new power? Yes. Do you charge a premium in your games for one but not the other? No. Players are free to spend their points on what they get, but I realize that a character who sprouts new powers is powerful in a way a character who merely enhances the ones he has already. Points are points, but flexibility being more powerful is a Hero Games standard - its why Power Pools cost more than merely the points equal to the powers they give. Because being able to do new things is powerful. However, you can feel free to disagree, it's your campaign. I would, however, strongly caution you to not allow characters to grant powers using the variable effect advantage, especially the +2 variant, which would allow a character to Grant/Bestow 87 powers at the same time, as long as they're all within a group of the same special effect. Good luck with that in your game.

Re: Rules to ignore, or replace Right: instead of an attack doing double stun (before defenses) from surprise, it hits you as if you have half as much CON. I've noticed when I walk into a cupboard door I don't collapse unconscious, but it sure hurts like crazy and I'm incapacitated for a second or two. That smacks to me of easier to be stunned, not being hit with more force or making me more likely to fall unconscious. All sarcasm aside, having a flight power with specific limitations is redundant to having flight. Both powers are moving through the air, the only difference is Gliding is cheaper and has special limits. That's simply shorthand for Flight with limitations. You could keep gliding in, but put it in a sidebar: here's how you could build gliding. As it stands, Gliding and Swinging are basically cheap active cost versions of flight with limitations. Oh, and I'd return Instant Change and get rid of the goofy Transform construct. I appreciate the idea behind that but it's just clunky. Other changes: I'd change duplication so that if a duplicate dies, you do not permanently lose points in a power unless you take a limitation that states this. Instead I'd say that you "heal" the points in duplication back over time as if they were lost Body points. Similarly if someone bought the Deep Cover talent and had their cover blown, they would have those points refunded, not lost permanently. I'd make AE powers not harm you when you use them at 0 range if that power is bought 0 range to begin with. You could buy a 1/4 limitation that makes it do so if you chose. I'd change Change Environment to allow powers that are beneficial to the characters. I'd change Transfer to continue to drain points out of the victim even if the points the character can gain from it are maxed. I'd break Tuneling into 2 elements: 1" of tunnel for 2 points, 1 DEF for 3. It is partly build like this at presence, but this construct would allow a 17" tunnel power that only went through 3 defense, for example. I'd make AE (any) 1 hex per 5 points in the power, not 1/10. The area is unbelievably tiny for the cost compared to other AE powers. I'd add an advantage that countered hardened defenses for a 1/4 advantage rather than requiring repeated purchase of 1/2 advantages only to negate another advantage. I'd make doubling your shots in Autofire cost 1/4 advantage, not 1/2. This seems cheap until you realize you have to HIT every time, and you're using up that much more END or that many more charges. I'd change the way being knocked out for a long time worked. Instead of being in steps of 10's, I'd change it to be steps equal to your CON. Thus instead of recovering only at post 12 once you are below -10 stun you would do so at negative stun greater than your CON. Each step would be based on your CON, not 10s.

Re: New Advantage: Area Effect Group My question would then be, how does the Power, without any additional information from the character at the time of use, know who to affect and who not to? ... Maybe I'm missing something here. Area Effect hits everything in the area. The spell, when defined, limits who this his instead of "everyone." Thus, when I use my AE explosion, only vs undead, the explosion goes off in the area, and only hits undead targets. What am I missing?

Re: Rules to ignore, or replace I'd drop gliding, it is just flight with limitations. It's like having water walking as a power, pointless duplication and specialization. I'd change the rules of attacks from surprise to do half CON rather than double stun. I'd change the block rules to be a roll against the DCV the attack hit rather than their OCV. A great attack roll makes it harder to block. Off the top of my head.

Re: New Mechanic: Grant/Bestow There's a big difference between making something you already have more powerful and giving you something entirely new. This is pretty intuitive, which is more powerful: 1) Increasing your PD by 6 points 2) Giving you 2 points of rPD when you had none Or this: 1) Increasing your ED by 6 points 2) Giving you 6+ Mental Defense when you had none Or this: 1) Giving you 2D6 to your blast 2) Giving you a 2D6 Flash you never had before The fact is, new powers = new strategies, new flexibility, increased power. That's why powers that give you flexibility cost more than powers that increase what you have (power pool vs buying more points of DEX). It's just part of the game. This is a standard of Hero, every GM I know understands this. Think about it, which would you be more careful about, 5 points to existing abilities a PC has, or 5 points for entirely new powers? The answer I believe is clear: The new powers, because they make the character more powerful

Re: New Advantage: Area Effect Group I'm not sure how this power is making any decisions for the player, he defines how the power works before he buys it and it does that each time. It either hits or it doesn't; it hits the people defined and doesn't hit anyone else.

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits Buy teamwork and con stun the living bejeezus out of nearly anything. Cool, this gives agents a shot. One at a time, using up every agent's phase at the same time. The rest of the team mops up

Re: New Advantage: Area Effect Group I'd prefer that but I think it might be too powerful a build, what does everyone else think?

Re: New Mechanic: Grant/Bestow Because boosting powers someone has already is not as powerful as giving people new powers entirely. When I've discussed this power with other Hero players, their primary concern every single time has been "but you could use it to give x powers at the same time" not "this is too powerful." And I think they have a point: one at a time is enough.

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits I'm not sure why the roll to hit would even be used with a power that has this advantage. I see this working like NND: it works or it doesn't. There's no granularity to the power, either it hits or it does not. A roll is superfluous. I don't think you can increase damage of all attacks with levels; at least I wouldn't allow it in my game, some simply don't make any sense. I don't care how skilled I am with my gas attack, skill isn't going to make it hurt worse.

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits Fine, I'll try to answer this in terms of how I'd deal with the questions brought up: The hero system does not deal in absolutes, so this mechanic does not work well with the existing structures. See NND argument, repeated above. I have yet to see a mechanism for resolving how this power interacts with missile deflect and/or missile reflection.. I would say that depends on the special effect, wouldn't you? Missile-based AH attacks would seem like they could be deflected based on how the power was defined. How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an invisible opponent? The power description specifically says you have to be able to perceive the target. How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an opponent that isn't actually there? (e.g. you are fooled by an image or mental illusion) That would depend on the controller of the illusion and how they defined what happens with attacks that hit it. How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an unseen (e.g. targets under cover of darkness or illusion) enemy or multiple enemies? How do you resolve this power when you are firing at an unseen (again, targets under cover of darkness, illusion, under a camo net) group of potential targets, some of which are enemies and some of which are human shields? See above regarding "perceive target" How do you propose to use this power in games which use hit locations? Do I get automatic head shots every time? How do you propose to use this power in games with sectional armor? Can you hit unarmored locations automatically? Like NND attacks do not affect a location, AH attacks are generalized, would be my rule. can somebody other than the intended target DFC in front to take the hit from this power? That would depend on the special effect and how the AH defense was defined. can you bounce an attack that always hits? I can't imagine why you would, but that again would depend on the special effect and the GM. can you spread an attack that always hits? I can't imagine why you would. can you use ranged martial arts with attacks that always hit? I would say no, but in some cases I expect that a GM might allow one special attack that properly defined could be - like NND martial arts attacks.

Re: New Advantage: Area Effect Group It is meant to be a modifier to AE, you buy AE then define who it works on with this advantage.