Force

Re: I have created a Regulation Act

Are you saying this because you think government service is compulsory? If so' date=' please understand I did not intend that and if I did not make it obvious that only regulation is compulsory and not DSO service I will fix that problem. My superhero world actually includes this Act as a follow-up to a failed "forced work" Act. If you're saying this understanding that service is not forced, please explain, because I don't follow.[/quote']

 

This act is compulsory.

 

In the USA people are free to do whatever they want as long as they don't impede on anyone else's ability to do whatever they want.

 

Under this act, I could never ever use any 'super-human ability' and still be committing a crime just by the fact I did not register just because I have an ability. That doesn't happen under the current constitution or shouldn't happen under the current constitution.

 

People have a right to privacy and that right can only be excluded under certain circumstances. There is no law that forces me to disclose anything and by simply not disclosing it makes me a criminal. What's next? How about if you don't register if you are gay making you a criminal?

 

And this is one argument that is merely the tip of the iceberg.

 

Just hand wave it and be done with it. If your players won't accept the 'hand wave', then you will have to go down another path or you will have to deal with disgruntled player(s).

 

It's possible you could require some sort of 'license' to be a 'super hero' in your campaign and require liability insurance, being bonded, form a corporation, training, etc. However, once you get the government to start 'regulating' this kind of 'behavior', you are opening yet another can of worms.

 

But do you really want to put your players through that during character creation/origin?

 

Maybe it's a whole group of litigation attorneys that are in your group...

 

Just hand wave it and be done with it. There is no legislation that could be created that would not be a pain.

Re: I have created a Regulation Act

Hmmm....

I don't think this will work. After all, something like this was hashed out not to long ago in off topic.

Rather than try to 'legaleaze' an actual 'regulation', just hand wave that your supers have to register with the government or go 'underground'.

There is no way to enact such legislation without getting rid of half the US constitution.

Re: Looking for a value on a limitation...

This gets back to my question:

 

What, exactly, are we doing here? Is this a campaign rule? I need to know exactly what it is you want to accomplish before I can be more clear.

Well, I don't know if it will be a campaign rule, but it certainly could be.

After reviewing the replies in this thread, I guess it would be no limitation, especially if there are guidelines/examples out there that give only a -1/4 limitation on "can't be pushed".

Thanks all!

Re: Looking for a value on a limitation...

Isn't that what I said?

 

It all depends on how likely it is to happen, and if by push he means "pushing" per the rules, or something else -- like a Haymaker. Only then can you establish what the Burnout limitation is actually worth. I would just build the "pushed" version of the power ala a Multipower; here's my 4d6 EB, here's my 8d6 Pushed EB, but it has Burnout to represent the danger of throwing that much power into it.

The multipower would work, but what about other powers that would more than likely be outside the multipower.

Re: Looking for a value on a limitation...

That depends on how you build it and what you want the penalty to be; Burnout is a Limitation all by itself' date=' so it depends. What exactly is Pushing? How often will it happen? If it isn't going to be used regularly, but the result is spectacular, I would go all the way to 14- to represent the risk/reward. That's what makes Burnout so great -- it has a wonderful risk/reward property inherent to it. If you build the power "right," then that will be clearly reflected.[/quote']

 

Yes, I have a response.

 

Uhhh...

 

What?!?

It represents powers in a powered suit.

Basically, if the character pushes a power in the suit that power will then have to make a burnout roll.

What kind of value would you give for 8-, 11- and 14-?

Re: Thoughts on SPD

As I said in another thread on another aspect of brick vs MA' date=' Zl'f's archnemesis is a brick named Fezzek. Not only did he literally squeeze her unconscious on their first encounter and throw her off a castle wall on their second, but she's never even had a chance to actually [i']fight[/i] him. She did once do a Move Through on him at 30" (not a particularly good idea when you have only 6 PD under those circumstances, but it was in a good cause), which Stunned her and left her with about 2 STUN. The only thing it really accomplished was to leak a point of STUN through his defenses and therefore prevent him from taking a Recovery. Fortunately for Zl'f, other members of the team were beginning to arrive and Fezzek decided to vamoose.

Exactly my point. And I bet there are bricks that are afraid of you as well.

It's all relative.

Re: Thoughts on SPD

All I know about this whole thread, is that everything is relative. Characters, campaigns, everything.

I mean my brick is a combat monster, has lower xp than Zl'f, but I can guarantee that Zl'f (version 434) would not want to fight my brick in a stand up fight. Would our team want to fight their team (even numbers)? Probably not. My character doesn't offer a whole lot outside of combat, but that was his role and point on the team. Our campaign started out with similar limits to Treb's campaign, but by the time it was over, wow.

It's all relative.

Re: Thoughts on SPD

Something of an aside, but it would be interesting to compare the various values that we would expect to see on different archetypes in our games.

 

Although we now have 350 point games I ahve not progressed far past a 250 point mentality, and I'd expect a brick to look something like:

 

STR 60 (damage around 12d6 normal)

DEX 20-23

CON 28

DEF 25-30

SPD 4

STUN 60

 

Maybe one or two skill levels.

 

A Martial Artist, would probably look like this:

 

STR 15-30 (damage of 8-12d6 normal)

DEX 30

CON 18-23

DEF 20

SPD 6

STUN 45

 

With a few (3 or 4) skill levels and martial arts

 

Like I said, based on the way we tend to play, a MA should win in a 'straight' fight 4 times out of 5*, but in a 'proper' combat, with scenery, it becomes a much more uncertain proposition, and the odds are far closer to even.

 

I'm not saying the figures we use are or should be typical - I'm just saying that it is all about application, not just build.

 

* That lucky hit

Nice analysis.

Rep'ed.

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

Years ago I was asked by a player about this.

 

"How much would it cost to always hit?"

 

I replied, "Twenty bucks a week."

And this is why you are Supreme.

Rep'ed.

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

Killing Attack - Ranged 1 point (standard effect: 1 BODY, 2 STUN), Penetrating (+1/2), Always Hits (+1), 16000 Charges (+1), Autofire (640 shots; +4) (37 Active Points)

 

 

I'd say this is sufficiently lethal - it would chew a battleship in half, maybe an entire fleet.

 

To me, this is more about the danger of mixing PEN with AF than any inherent problem with Always Hits.

No. It looks far worse.

Re: New Advangtage: Always Hits

How nasty is this advantage with a penetrating, autofire, low pip rka?

Can someone do the math on 60-90 point active points and build the nastiest thing you can?

Re: Let's talk about...Physical disads and powers that minimise them

So we all know the common wisdom is that if a character has a power that mitigates a Physical (or any really) disad that they should get less to no points for it. I have been thinking about this ALOT recently

 

Let's take Matt, his character "Carefree" is a blind martial artist with enhanced senses, so Matt Buys Active Sonar for his character, then he only gets 5 points for the blind disad (because it does not effect him that much). For a net cost of 10 points. So he has spent 10 points at this point to represent that instead of normal vision he has echo location, this seems really high to me, considering he has ALSO lowered his disad cap by 5 points

 

Now what I am suggesting is this: If a character has a power that is reasonably able to substitute for a phys disad he can have the number of active points in said power (Not including adders in some cases). So Matt would get 15 for his blind, the same cost as his Active Sonar, he is still disadvantaged some as he would be the equivelent in some ways to a 335 point character in a 350 point game, but he is netting 0 points for the difference

 

Another quick example is someone who has taken "No arms" but has psudopods bought as Extra limbs would max at 5 points for the no arms disad

 

Thoughts?

Not sure I am for this. If matt has a secret id and people know he is blind in his secret id, he has to be very careful about what he does as he can 'see' using his active sonar. How many blind people do you know that have active sonar?

Vision also enables you to see colors, read, along with a myriad of other things. I don't think reducing the disad is justified in all circumstances.

And you would simply have to get rid of ncm for powered suit characters, not like that's a bad thing.

Re: lets make this work: Instant Change

Talent. Flat Cost. 5 Points.

 

I admit it - I have atavistic hero tendencies.

True.

Also, you don't fix something that's not broken until it is broken.

K.I.S.S.

Re: Modelling Explosives : TNT

here you go.

I just don't remember were I got this but thanks to them. Step forward if you see this. Sorry I wish I could give credit

 

TNT equivalent

DC Energy Muzzle velocity Point 1 Hex Explosion Notes

1 32 J 25 ft-lbs - - 1/32 lbs

2 64 J 50 ft-lbs - - 1/16 lbs

3 125 J 100 ft-lbs - - 1/8 lbs

4 250 J 200 ft-lbs - - 1/4 lbs

5 500 J 400 ft-lbs - - 1/2 lbs

6 1 KJ 800 ft-lbs - 1/64 lbs 1 lbs

7 2 KJ 2 K ft-lbs - 1/32 lbs 2 lbs

8 4 KJ 3 K ft-lbs - 1/16 lbs 4 lbs

9 8 KJ 6 K ft-lbs - 1/8 lbs 8 lbs

10 16 KJ 13 K ft-lbs - 1/4 lbs 16 lbs

11 32 KJ 25 K ft-lbs - 1/2 lbs 32 lbs

12 64 KJ 50 K ft-lbs 1/64 lbs 1 lbs 64 lbs

13 125 KJ 100 K ft-lbs 1/32 lbs 2 lbs 125 lbs

14 250 KJ 200 K ft-lbs 1/16 lbs 4 lbs 250 lbs

15 500 K 400 K ft-lbs 1/8 lbs 8 lbs 500 lbs

16 1 MJ 800 K ft-lbs 1/4 lbs 16 lbs 1 Tn

17 2 MJ 2 M ft-lbs 1/2 lbs 32 lbs 2 Tn

18 4 MJ 3 M ft-lbs 1 lbs 64 lbs 4 Tn

19 8 MJ 6 M ft-lbs 2 lbs 125 lbs 8 Tn

20 16 MJ 13 M ft-lbs 4 lbs 250 lbs 16 Tn

24 250 MJ 200 M ft-lbs 64 lbs 4 Tn 250 Tn Minimum Yield Nuke

30 16 GJ 13 G ft-lbs 4 Tn 250 Tn 16 KTn Hiroshima/Nagasaki

33 125 GJ 100 G ft-lbs 32 Tn 2 KTn 125 KTn Median US Nuke

39 8 TJ 6 T ft-lbs 2 KTn 125 KTn 8 MTn Largest Current US Nuke

42 64 TJ 50 T ft-lbs 16 KTn 1 MTn 64 MTn Tsar Bomba (Largest Nuke ever made)

107 2E33 J 2E33 ft-lbs 500 Ytn 3E27 Tn 2E30 Tn Minimum needed to destroy Earth

124 3E38 J 2E38 ft-lbs 6E31 Tn 4E33 Tn 3E35 Tn Death Star

150 2E46 J 1E47 ft-lbs 4E39 Tn 3E41 Tn 2E43 Tn SuperNova

211 1E66 J 2E64 ft-lbs 8E57 Tn 1E60 Tn 3E60 Tn Big Bang

 

 

Methodology:

Starting Assumptions:

1- The average person could do 6DC damage max. (2DC + 4DC Haymaker)

2- The average person could lift 100kg 2 meters (or they could exert 200 kg meters of energy).

3- The average person cannot release all their lift strength in a punch (even a haymaker). So haymaker energy should be about 1/2 total lift.

4- 6 DC should thus be about 100 kg meters.

I then calculated the equivalent in other measuring systems, doubling the energy for each additional DC. As a sanity check I looked up the muzzle velocity of a half dozen common pistols and rifles and compared my calculated DCs to the values listed in FREd. They matched exactly. So I feel that my methods were validated.

Equivalent in TNT has three values. The first is if the explosion was focused and all the energy released is directly applied to a single point (ie no area effect advantage). The second is if the energy were contained within a 2m diameter sphere (ie 1 hex AE advantage +1/2). The last is if it is a normal explosion and the energy was allowed to disperse normally (ie explosion AE advantage +1/2).

I didn't understand a single bit of this.

Rep'ed anyways for the work you put in this.

Re: Hulk vs Superman

It would all depend on who was writing the comic at the time.

Re: lets make this work: Instant Change

Let's face it, it was dumb to change the power. Nothing wrong at all with an arbitrary 5 points or so for certain characters to be able to zap inot their super hero costumes. It has no effect on combat, and could easily be a given for certain characters, anyway- The Flash comes to mind, or anypne else with super speed.

 

I'd say grandfater it in, use a custom power in Hero Designer, and thumb your nose at anyone who doesn't like it.

QFT

Re: Quick rules question for HA MAs

Okay, if this is right then let's munchkinize.

 

Old Wang Li has a special pair of magical gauntlets that have really little demon teeth imbedded in them. Wang is old and weak (5 Str) but REALLY good at MA (+5 DC).

 

Gauntlets--Hand-To-Hand Attack +1d6, Autofire (3 shots; +1/4), Armor Piercing (x2; +1), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1) (16 Active Points); Hand-To-Hand Attack (-1/2), No Knockback (-1/4), IIF (-1/4), Reduced Penetration (-1/4)

 

+1d6 from Str, +4d6 Off Strike, +5DC = 11d6 autofire, AP (x2) for 0 End. Yeah, I'll pay <40 points (the combined costs of the DC, etc) for 160+ AP.

Legal build. I wouldn't allow it if I was the gm, but it is legal.

Re: Where have all the Superheroes gone?

Absolutely! Yes' date=' we need heroes now more then ever. But part of the angst, cynicism, and disaffection that caused the question has also been coming up. - our current culture seems intent on tearing heroes down. [/size']

I don't see this. I can see this in some story lines in comics, but 'our current culture' does not seem intent on tearing heroes down.

The comics industry also seems to have lost their way on this issue. Look at how dark' date=' violent, and grim superhero stories have become (DC especially) in pursuit of more "realistic" and "mature" storytelling. Some of these stories - [u']The Killing Joke[/u], God Loves, Man Kills, Daredevil: Born Again, to name a few, are examples of brilliant writing - but most of these "iron age" stories are just as trite (and less fun) as the writing they are trying to replace.

I agree that the comics industry has lost it's way. I don't agree on the premise of how or why it has lost it's way.

Re: Where have all the Superheroes gone?

Rep to oddhat and ghost. Again. I can't really rep you guys, but you know it's the thought that counts.

You guys hit it on the head.

As for the OP, half of your 'concerns' are simply misgivings. Every generation since Christ has thought the end was coming now and not later. Machine guns were invented to end all wars as they were such a 'terrible weapon' to cause such 'massive casualties' that wars would not longer be fought because people wouldn't tolerate it.

As for your fears altering your game settings, that's your call. I don't think it's needed in the slightest, but then I'm not you.

Re: lets make this work: Instant Change

This is what happens when you take something simple (and not broken) and make it complicated (and broken).

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

Stats appropriate to concept is a judgement call that only the player and GM IN HIS OWN GAME can make.

Hallelujah!!!!

Can I get an AMEN brother!!!

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

Except everyone doesn't have a SPD 6. I am a co-GM in Trebuchet's campaign. The name team in the Midguard universe has diverse 2-SPD 4, 3-SPD 5, 3-SPD 6, and 1-SPD 9 character. No PCs in the game lack for playing time, value to the team, effectiveness in or out of combat. none of them have ever been too powerful either.

 

I will concede that nobody elected to have a "Joe Average" SPD of 2 or 3, but neither do they have a "Joe Average" STR, DEX, CON, INT, EGO, PRE, COM, PD, ED, REC, END, or STUN. None of them. So it seems that singling out only SPD for not being a default in the human average range is mistaken.

Preach on brother.

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

Take two 10-point characters' date=' let one of them buy a point of SPD, let the other spend his 10 points in [i']any other way[/i], put those two in a fight, and the SPD 2 guys will lose every time, barring freaks of probability.

Anything taken to extremes can be skewed. I'll take 15 str and 8pd. Barring freaks of probability, you will beat on me forever and I will never catch you.

So does that make str and pd borked?

Re: Rant? Speed in Hero

Huh? You can't see how playing in a standard Champions campaign would keep you from playing a character with more human level abilities? Have you not looked at the characters in the system books.

You want to play a character with human level abilities in a standard Champions campaign and yet you wonder why he "can't compete"? Of course I can see that. That wasn't my point. My point is wondering why you can't see your concept doesn't fit a standard Champions campaign. Obviously some concepts will work and some won't.

And it is not a preconceived notion that a person who has the CONCEPT of playing a perfectly normal teenager who happens to have a super power should have NORMAL stats. That is a Character Concept' date=' not a preconceived notion. But doing so would keep him from playing in the same field as other characters.[/quote']

 

Normal stats? In a champions campaign? You want someone running around with human pd and ed in a 10-12dc campaign?

 

Something is wrong with the character concept in the campaign you want to run.

 

You might think he should just go ahead and be outclassed' date=' but the point is that he shouldn't have to be outclassed to play a character like that.[/quote']

 

So what you are saying that all characters of various power levels should be viable in all campaigns? I don't buy that.

 

You can apply your reasoning about speed and dex to just about everything in champions.